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    (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
    Yes I see a difference, I just don't think we should draw a line between them.

    Undercover journalists should not be excused for any and all offensive behaviour in the name of their "journalism", which is at best little more than an attempt to stir up racial hatreds.
    Is highlighting the discrimination and abuse that some groups experience "stiring up racial hatred"?
    Surely the more exposure this has to the wider audience, the greater the appreciation of the problem and the willingness to tackle it.

    So, is a white person posing as South Asian a bad thing if; A) it was done with the intention of highlighting the issue, and B) it alters even a few people's perception of the issue?

    There have been several examples of people undergoing these transformations for TV, to better understand the issues of people of different race, gender and disability but I don't remember any of them causing such outrage before.
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    I don't understand....why are muslims outraged due to "blackfacing"? Is it because its stereotypical for a Muslim to be black or brown? Well what the **** did they want this girl to go undercover as, ****ing blue?
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    This is how 'news' can pop out of nothing, a TV program on 4 and Guardian report into it... nothing. That's the summary, nothing to show for.

    Where's the Islamophobia all this pantomime was supposed to uncover? Nowhere, now the news is just... this.
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    (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
    Undercover journalists should not be excused for any and all offensive behaviour in the name of their "journalism", which is at best little more than an attempt to stir up racial hatreds.
    So you object to dressing up as someone of a different race per se. By the same token, then, you wouldn't approve if a policeman disguised himself as an Asian in order to investigate a crime undercover, or if an MI6 spy adopted such a disguise, and would condemn a special services soldier in Iraq who infiltrated ISIS by dressing and making up as an Arab. The same constraint would prevent Willem Dafoe from playing Jesus in The Last Temptation of Christ, Russel Crowe from playing Noah, Alec Guiness from playing Prince Faisal in Lawrence of Arabia, and Natalie Wood from playing Maria in West Side Story.

    You must have a field day when your friends change the colour of their skins to be darker and appear tanned, and would probably go mad if you met one who had also had a nose job and did so.

    I, on the other hand, think that it is reasonable to adopt a disguise, or change dress, accent or any identifying characteristic in order to appear to be someone else if one has a reasonable motivation for doing so, and that race is completely irrelevant. There is nothing remotely racist in doing so.

    Investigative journalism is an obvious reason to do so, as are the ones I mentioned in my first paragraph, and acting is another.
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    tbf it probably wouldn't have been that hard to hire somebody actually brown to go undercover. Then again tho if you get somebody actually Pakistani chances are they'd also be a Muslim which would sort of defeat the point. Calling it "deeply offensive" purely on the basis of the going undercover part does seem like an overreaction imo
    (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
    Channel 4 is becoming more and more a mouth-piece for the far-right
    ...have you ever watched channel 4?

    (Original post by JMR2017)
    Moved to TV shows.
    lmao what a meme
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    You sound like what National Socialists said about Jewish people in the 30s.
    Godwin
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    Godwin
    Of course, the Holocaust was one of the biggest humanitarian disasters in history, it is important we do not make those mistakes again, with any group.
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    You sound like what National Socialists said about Jewish people in the 30s.

    "You ****ing Nazi".


    You're part of the problem, the same problem that prevented people reporting on the Rotherham crisis for fear of being called "racist".

    You're the very embodiment of extreme political correctness.
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    Of course, the Holocaust was one of the biggest humanitarian disasters in history, it is important we do not make those mistakes again, with any group.
    It’s become boring, sad to say. The only historical reference anyone ever makes on the Internet, probably the only one most people are even aware of.

    Since we are talking about a TV programme concerning the Pakistani diaspora in the UK, how about a reference to another humanitarian disaster, arguably equal in scale to the Holocaust? The Muslim conquest of the Indian sub continent?

    There is no Godwin’s Law on that because few people have ever heard of it. Including you, l’ll bet.

    Am I right?

    We have thousands of years of recorded human history and the only historical event anyone talks about is Nazi Germany.
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    (Original post by RightWingLiberal)
    "You ****ing Nazi".


    You're part of the problem, the same problem that prevented people reporting on the Rotherham crisis for fear of being called "racist".

    You're the very embodiment of extreme political correctness.
    OK, but tell me why we should tolerate bullying on a certain group. There is nothing wrong with debating or criticising religion, but saying we need to investigate an entire religion and deal with them, just because of their faith is something the Nazis did, with the Jewish community. OK it could have been that a few Jewish bankers were responsible for the Wall Street Crash and Great Depression, but did that mean the whole Jewish community should be persecuted? Likewise, there are a few Muslims who carry out terrorist attacks, and I do not deny that. I completely condemn these attacks, but this does not mean we need to ban entire religions from our countries, and indeed is a slippery slope to something much worse.
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    Nowadays people are even going as far as saying we should 'abolish Islam', and Katie Hopkins saying we need a 'final solution'. Obviously such things are reminiscent of Nazi Germany.
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    You people dignify this too much, it's just nuts. Look at it this way:

    You're offered a grand or ten to go out 'undercover' (is that code language for burka?) and come back with hard evidence of Islamophobia. How do you go about it?

    All The Guardian offer is the old 'being lumped with terrorists' stuff. Ridiculous, for all their pains that is it.
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    (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
    Channel 4 is becoming more and more a mouth-piece for the far-right, which I find rather worrying.

    It is completely the wrong atmosphere right now to be trying to divide further with their "documentaries". Why not do documentaries about animal abuse or something?
    You would rather bring awareness to Animal Abuse than actual Human abuse, wow, just wow.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    It’s become boring, sad to say. The only historical reference anyone ever makes on the Internet, probably the only one most people are even aware of.

    Since we are talking about a TV programme concerning the Pakistani diaspora in the UK, how about a reference to another humanitarian disaster, arguably equal in scale to the Holocaust? The Muslim conquest of the Indian sub continent?

    There is no Godwin’s Law on that because few people have ever heard of it. Including you, l’ll bet.

    Am I right?

    We have thousands of years of recorded human history and the only historical event anyone talks about is Nazi Germany.
    Yeah you are right, people talk less about the massacre of the Hindus, or the massacre of the Armenians, and we should, and also remember it. But I am using the Nazi example because it is more contemporary, and well known.
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    (Original post by zhog)
    You people dignify this too much, it's just nuts. Look at it this way:

    You're offered a grand or ten to go out 'undercover' (is that code language for burka?) and come back with hard evidence of Islamophobia. How do you go about it?

    All The Guardian offer is the old 'being lumped with terrorists' stuff. Ridiculous, for all their pains that is it.
    I'm pretty sure there would be outrage if it was any other religion apart from Islam.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    It’s become boring, sad to say. The only historical reference anyone ever makes on the Internet, probably the only one most people are even aware of.

    Since we are talking about a TV programme concerning the Pakistani diaspora in the UK, how about a reference to another humanitarian disaster, arguably equal in scale to the Holocaust? The Muslim conquest of the Indian sub continent?

    There is no Godwin’s Law on that because few people have ever heard of it. Including you, l’ll bet.

    Am I right?

    We have thousands of years of recorded human history and the only historical event anyone talks about is Nazi Germany.
    Also the fact that there are still Nazis today...
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    OK, but tell me why we should tolerate bullying on a certain group. There is nothing wrong with debating or criticising religion, but saying we need to investigate an entire religion and deal with them, just because of their faith is something the Nazis did, with the Jewish community. OK it could have been that a few Jewish bankers were responsible for the Wall Street Crash and Great Depression, but did that mean the whole Jewish community should be persecuted? Likewise, there are a few Muslims who carry out terrorist attacks, and I do not deny that. I completely condemn these attacks, but this does not mean we need to ban entire religions from our countries, and indeed is a slippery slope to something much worse.
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    Nowadays people are even going as far as saying we should 'abolish Islam', and Katie Hopkins saying we need a 'final solution'. Obviously such things are reminiscent of Nazi Germany.
    False equivalence. Plain and simple.

    Most people claiming this is "reminiscent of Nazi Germany" are either Muslims or part of a non-Muslim group/organization who never lived and experienced Nazi Germany. I think it's pretty pathetic to make any sort of comparison.


    That said, are we going to all-out deny there is a desperate issue within the Islamic community in England, and indeed in many other countries in the EU. Think of the unemployment in that specific group, for instance - or the ghettoization(!!).

    It isn't a bigoted remark to want the government to make an effort in changing those issues

    There are thousands of Jihadist, who ALL belonged to an extent in that community, SURELY there is SOMETHING wrong with it.

    It's time to look at yourselves.
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    (Original post by RightWingLiberal)
    False equivalence. Plain and simple.

    Most people claiming this is "reminiscent of Nazi Germany" are either Muslims or part of a non-Muslim group/organization who never lived and experienced Nazi Germany. I think it's pretty pathetic to make any sort of comparison.


    That said, are we going to all-out deny there is a desperate issue within the Islamic community in England, and indeed in many other countries in the EU. Think of the unemployment in that specific group, for instance - or the ghettoization(!!).

    It isn't a bigoted remark to want the government to make an effort in changing those issues

    There are thousands of Jihadist, who ALL belonged to an extent in that community, SURELY there is SOMETHING wrong with it.

    It's time to look at yourselves.
    What you are saying is actually quite prejudiced, you feel that we should persecute a certain group just because the unemployment rate is higher! There are bad people in every group, race, religion, why do you only ever care about the bad people in one group, and ignore the millions of Muslims who are peaceful (see the chart above)!
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I think the point behind using a white person was that it is entirely possible that a non-Muslim South Asian would also have experienced discrimination and abuse, and the point of the programme is to push the "Islamophobia" agenda rather than merely highlight the obvious racism and xenophobia present in some parts of society against "brown foreigners".
    Yeah I really don't get why they mashed up race and religion and then presented it as islamophobia, if they wanted to understand islamophobia all they had to do was make her wear a hijab. The brown skin and synthetic nose is pushing it, not only are you now testing both waters and presenting it mainly as Islamophobia but the programme itself is now pretty racist - I mean you'd think they'd know 'brownface' isn't okay.
    I think the entire programme would be less offensive if it was for comedic purposes but they've put it forward as a 'documentary' something which is associated with facts, critical analysis, sensible methods of research and then they've gone an dressed up a white woman.
    I understand and agree with your point, I think it's pushing it. In order to understand the experiences of non-Muslim south Asians and/or Muslim south Asian it would've been more sensible to ask these individuals directly rather than what they've gone and done.
    I'm still struggling to get my head around the fact that this actually going to be on TV.

    Actually I wouldn't even go as far to say 'south Asian' they stereotypical nose thing is associated with Pakistanis. I'd say its more about what it's like being Pakistani than actually being Muslim. So that's where the racial element comes in for me, in my opinion.
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    (Original post by Nuba123)
    Yeah I really don't get why they mashed up race and religion and then presented it as islamophobia, if they wanted to understand islamophobia all they had to do was make her wear a hijab. The brown skin and synthetic nose is pushing it, not only are you now testing both waters and presenting it mainly as Islamophobia but the programme itself is now pretty racist - I mean you'd think they'd know 'brownface' isn't okay.
    I think the entire programme would be less offensive if it was for comedic purposes but they've put it forward as a 'documentary' something which is associated with facts, critical analysis, sensible methods of research and then they've gone an dressed up a white woman.
    I understand and agree with your point, I think it's pushing it. In order to understand the experiences of non-Muslim south Asians and/or Muslim south Asian it would've been more sensible to ask these individuals directly rather than what they've gone and done.
    I'm still struggling to get my head around the fact that this actually going to be on TV.

    Actually I wouldn't even go as far to say 'south Asian' they stereotypical nose thing is associated with Pakistanis. I'd say its more about what it's like being Pakistani than actually being Muslim. So that's where the racial element comes in for me, in my opinion.
    Agree with last bit especially.
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    I'm pretty sure there would be outrage if it was any other religion apart from Islam.
    There seems to be some all the same and it had to be Islam if we are talking 'uncovering Islamophobia', quite a saleable production for channels like 4. Uncovering Christianophobia neither as profitable or even in demand in the mainstream media. No investors.

    I occasionally mention how much I'd resent some of these racialist stunts were I one of the alleged victims, my sympathy goes out to Muslims entirely. Apologies from the rest of the white community.
 
 
 
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