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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Durham has one - not sure how many other "top" universities do it.

    And LMH is fully-funded, unlike Durham.
    Warwick has one, with some funding. It will be a much bigger cohort than LMH though.

    UCL, St Andrews and KCL also have foundation year courses - universities with much lower entry requirements also frequently use them. Some universities do have a tendency to use them for international students as much as from an access perspective.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Warwick has one, with some funding. It will be a much bigger cohort than LMH though.

    UCL, St Andrews and KCL also have foundation year courses - universities with much lower entry requirements also frequently use them. Some universities do have a tendency to use them for international students as much as from an access perspective.
    Well I was excluding the Scottish ones because they have early years generally anyway.

    And yes many of those schemes (ie. London unis) are more for internationals
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    (Original post by auburnstar)
    I think there could also be more information provided to people from disadvantaged backgrounds and marginalised communities in terms of the specifics of the support provided..
    Oh for goodness sakes!

    Do students need to be spoonfed every single morsel? Why can't these 'people from disadvantaged backgrounds' show a bit of nous and look it up on the university websites for themselves? And if they can't find the answer then send an email? Why does Oxbridge have to spend even more £millions just to save them the effort?

    I am astonished that Oxbridge spends £millions and time on 'outreach' which is basically telling students the universities exist and are happy to receive applications from them. Isn't that the job of any competent secondary school teacher?

    There is unfairness in the Oxbridge process, but it is to be found in the lack of independent scrutiny and public accountability in the admissions process not in whether Oxbridge has spent enough on outreach.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    Oh for goodness sakes!

    Do students need to be spoonfed every single morsel? Why can't these 'people from disadvantaged backgrounds' show a bit of nous and look it up on the university websites for themselves? And if they can't find the answer then send an email? Why does Oxbridge have to spend even more £millions just to save them the effort?

    I am astonished that Oxbridge spends £millions and time on 'outreach' which is basically telling students the universities exist and are happy to receive applications from them. Isn't that the job of any competent secondary school teacher?

    There is unfairness in the Oxbridge process, but it is to be found in the lack of independent scrutiny and public accountability in the admissions process not in whether Oxbridge has spent enough on outreach.
    Many secondary school teachers are either unencouraging, or actively discouraging, students *they* incorrectly think don't fit the Oxbridge "mould". Most outreach is trying to convince those teachers to think otherwise.

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Many secondary school teachers are either unencouraging, or actively discouraging, students *they* incorrectly think don't fit the Oxbridge "mould". Most outreach is trying to convince those teachers to think otherwise.
    And if you don't apply, no matter how fair the system, you can't get in.

    (Not to mention it is teachers (not students) who have to write the reference, so having a good teacher-student relationship is important.)
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Many secondary school teachers are either unencouraging, or actively discouraging, students *they* incorrectly think don't fit the Oxbridge "mould". Most outreach is trying to convince those teachers to think otherwise.

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    PRSOM.

    Bad advice over and under encouragement are probably the biggest contributors to this issue.
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    (Original post by auburnstar)
    And if you don't apply, no matter how fair the system, you can't get in.

    (Not to mention it is teachers (not students) who have to write the reference, so having a good teacher-student relationship is important.)
    Many students won’t have a good teacher-student relationship, of no fault of their own.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Many secondary school teachers are either unencouraging, or actively discouraging, students *they* incorrectly think don't fit the Oxbridge "mould". Most outreach is trying to convince those teachers to think otherwise.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    If that were true, I think it would be a pretty dire indictment of secondary school teachers.

    I don't think these teachers went into the profession to deliberately harm students: if Cambridge made it known to them that Cambridge couldn't give a damn about GCSE grades and would consider anyone with reasonable A level grades, then the teachers would pass the information on. Cambridge should just send an email to all head teachers reminding them that Cambridge doesn't give a damn about GCSE results and it's all to play for with A levels, for example. Everyone welcome. The £millions saved every year could be used for bursaries for low-income students and easing the fee burden on everybody.

    They could offer free training videos to teachers in the admissions process for Oxbridge: how to write a reference etc. If Ibz Mo can cobble together free training videos in his spare time; I am sure the paid staff at Oxbridge could come up with something. They are supposed to work in the field of education after all
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Many students won’t have a good teacher-student relationship, of no fault of their own.
    I agree there are injustices in the Oxbridge admissions system.

    It can’t be fair, for example, that some applicants to Oxbridge - just because of who they are - get special treatment.

    For example, I know 100% for sure of some prospective students who because of who they know and the schools they've attended have managed to get through their personal contacts:
    • Coaching from actual Oxbridge tutors on how to prepare their personal statements; UCAS form; SAQ statement and other stuff (given free)
    • Interview practice with actual Oxbridge tutors (!!)
    • Help to prepare for the admission tests (I am not joking)

    Whilst all other students just have to go it alone and rely on teachers at their school. How can that be fair?

    That’s the kind of thing David Lammy should be jumping up and down about.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    I agree there are injustices in the Oxbridge admissions system.

    It can’t be fair, for example, that some applicants to Oxbridge - just because of who they are - get special treatment.

    For example, I know 100% for sure of some prospective students who because of who they know and the schools they've attended have managed to get through their personal contacts:
    • Coaching from actual Oxbridge tutors on how to prepare their personal statements; UCAS form; SAQ statement and other stuff (given free)
    • Interview practice with actual Oxbridge tutors (!!)
    • Help to prepare for the admission tests (I am not joking)

    Whilst all other students just have to go it alone and rely on teachers at their school. How can that be fair?

    That’s the kind of thing David Lammy should be jumping up and down about.
    ^^
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    I agree there are injustices in the Oxbridge admissions system.

    It can’t be fair, for example, that some applicants to Oxbridge - just because of who they are - get special treatment.

    For example, I know 100% for sure of some prospective students who because of who they know and the schools they've attended have managed to get through their personal contacts:
    • Coaching from actual Oxbridge tutors on how to prepare their personal statements; UCAS form; SAQ statement and other stuff (given free)
    • Interview practice with actual Oxbridge tutors (!!)
    • Help to prepare for the admission tests (I am not joking)

    Whilst all other students just have to go it alone and rely on teachers at their school. How can that be fair?

    That’s the kind of thing David Lammy should be jumping up and down about.
    This is very very true. I have a family friend who got his PS written for him last year (including an SAQ statement) by some Oxbridge website. He also had 5 preparation interviews (I thought this was a bit excessive..) 2 were with Oxbridge tutors and 3 were with his school teachers who attended Oxbridge. He was also provided with 5 mock admission tests and MCQ preparation.

    Then there's me, writing my PS alone guessing at the type of things they want to hear about. No interview prep except talking points through with myself and talking to one teacher who barely knows about Oxbridge. For the admissions test, I have 2 past papers available online. Probably why in my schools 50 history no-one has been accepted to Cambridge. 1 student got into Oxford 6 years ago and it's like an urban legend at my school as its so unheard of.

    I'm in the dark about everything. Definitely some injustice
    Btw he got in and I bet I won't.
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    (Original post by GovernmentEarner)
    Then there's me, writing my PS alone guessing at the type of things they want to hear about. No interview prep except talking points through with myself and talking to one teacher who barely knows about Oxbridge. For the admissions test, I have 2 past papers available online. Probably why in my schools 50 history no-one has been accepted to Cambridge. 1 student got into Oxford 6 years ago and it's like an urban legend at my school as its so unheard of.
    This is somewhat OT, but TSR has a lot of helpful resources regarding PS and admissions tests (depending on subject). Have you had a look around the relevant forums?
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    It can’t be fair, for example, that some applicants to Oxbridge - just because of who they are - get special treatment.
    Just to be clear: are you suggesting that private school or state school students are getting this 'special treatment'?
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    (Original post by GovernmentEarner)
    This is very very true. I have a family friend who got his PS written for him last year (including an SAQ statement) by some Oxbridge website. He also had 5 preparation interviews 2 were with Oxbridge tutors and 3 were with his school teachers who attended Oxbridge. He was also provided with 5 mock admission tests and MCQ preparation.

    Then there's me, writing my PS alone guessing at the type of things they want to hear about. No interview prep except talking points through with myself and talking to one teacher who barely knows about Oxbridge. For the admissions test, I have 2 past papers available online.

    I'm in the dark about everything. Definitely some injustice
    Btw he got in and I bet I won't.
    Perhaps this happens but is very rare and will have cost your friend a few thousands and if they needed that amount of coaching to get in then they will come a cropper when they actually get to Camford.

    Of course it takes a place from a genuine applicant but I really think it's a tiny minority. Personally I think Oxbridge should stop allowing them to use university or college facilities. It implies they are condoned and affiliated to the universities, when they aren't.

    By the way, the success rate for regular uses of the TSR Oxbridge applicants thread is better than those admissions "consultancies".
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    (Original post by DFranklin)
    This is somewhat OT, but TSR has a lot of helpful resources regarding PS and admissions tests (depending on subject). Have you had a look around the relevant forums?
    But that's not the point is it? With all due respect, it's not the same as being helped by actual Oxbridge tutors.

    Do you think that it is fair that some people just because of who they are, and who they know, get all the help I mentioned?
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    (Original post by GovernmentEarner)
    This is very very true. I have a family friend who got his PS written for him last year (including an SAQ statement) by some Oxbridge website. He also had 5 preparation interviews (I thought this was a bit excessive..) 2 were with Oxbridge tutors and 3 were with his school teachers who attended Oxbridge. He was also provided with 5 mock admission tests and MCQ preparation.

    Then there's me, writing my PS alone guessing at the type of things they want to hear about. No interview prep except talking points through with myself and talking to one teacher who barely knows about Oxbridge. For the admissions test, I have 2 past papers available online. Probably why in my schools 50 history no-one has been accepted to Cambridge. 1 student got into Oxford 6 years ago and it's like an urban legend at my school as its so unheard of.

    I'm in the dark about everything. Definitely some injustice
    Btw he got in and I bet I won't.
    I really feel for you. You're right: it's not fair.

    And that's why I think the £millions they spend on telling people Oxbridge exists should be spent on training teachers properly to help people like you.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    But that's not the point is it?
    Sorry, I take trying to help a real applicant, with real, immediate concerns, over point-scoring. Your priorities apparently differ.
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    (Original post by DFranklin)
    Sorry, I take trying to help a real applicant, with real, immediate concerns, over point-scoring. Your priorities apparently differ.
    Eh?
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    But that's not the point is it? With all due respect, it's not the same as being helped by actual Oxbridge tutors.

    Do you think that it is fair that some people just because of who they are, and who they know, get all the help I mentioned?
    Many comprehensives/sixth forms pair up with local private schools to arrange Oxbridge assistance for their pupils, including mock interviews with Oxbridge tutors. By no means all, but many do.

    Also, as per my earlier comment about the commercial consultancies, the success rate for applicants who actively engage with TSR resources *is* very good.

    The world is not a level playing field, and Oxbridge can do more to level it, but a good candidate without a public-school or otherwise privileged background can still be a competitive candidate. The resources are there.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Perhaps this happens but is very rare and will have cost your friend a few thousands and if they needed that amount of coaching to get in then they will come a cropper when they actually get to Camford.

    Of course it takes a place from a genuine applicant but I really think it's a tiny minority. Personally I think Oxbridge should stop allowing them to use university or college facilities. It implies they are condoned and affiliated to the universities, when they aren't.

    By the way, the success rate for regular uses of the TSR Oxbridge applicants thread is better than those admissions "consultancies".
    It did cost him a lot I believe £3,000 overall. He's a really nice guy and Oxbridge was his dream and he knew he wanted to make full use of his chances. I have been to an Oxbridge event and I spoke to over 20 applicants and none of them did this, so you're right it probably is quite rare. TSR ftw I guess haha
 
 
 
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