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    The resources are there - some will have to work harder to find them rather than being told where they are. The issue for many is knowing where they are, knowing whether they are reputable, and having the confidence go even try and find them in the first place.

    Training teachers isn’t as easy either. High turn over of staff and teachers who are already overloaded with work means the ability for there to be a dedicated knowledgable resource in a school is difficult. The problem is exacerbated by good teachers generally choosing to go to better schools. Those who take on the challenge of working in under performing schools probably have to worry more about getting their students as a group to turn up regularly and get a C in Maths/English. They will have bigger fish to fry than getting kids into Oxbridge.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Those who take on the challenge of working in under performing schools probably have to worry more about getting their students as a group to turn up regularly and get a C in Maths/English. They will have bigger fish to fry than getting kids into Oxbridge.
    Mossbourne Academy.

    If Mossbourne in a deprived area can be turned from one of the worst schools in the country to one of the best, then any school can do it.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    Mossbourne Academy.

    If Mossbourne in a deprived area can be turned from one of the worst schools in the country to one of the best, then any school can do it.
    Yes. It can be done if you have some great management. But just because one school does it, doesn’t mean everyone can.

    A school in Hackney like Mossbourne will find it much easier to get teachers than one in Blackpool.

    The academy status will also make things easier.
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    We accept that it is perfectly valid to challenge whether Oxford (or Cambridge) should be more ambitious. Both Universities also accept that access remains a significant issue.

    That said, the Guardian criticism does lack some context. For example, while Oxford admits a small number of black British students the position is in fact worse at other selective Universities, according to UCAS:

    http://wonkhe.com/blogs/data-univers...missions-bias/

    This fact is important because the Universities listed in the above link all operate centralised admissions, which the authors of the newspaper article and other commentators advocate as a solution.

    We would also point out that the survey period was 2010-15. This year, Oxford exceeded three of four its OFFA targets and is on course to achieve the other:

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and...egories?wssl=1

    Lastly, although Brasenose has not (as the Guardian suggests) written to every 6th former in the UK predicted to achieve the standard offer, we have made 1,146 posts on TSR and sent 286 messages to prospective applicants. In any given year, we also typically make 250 contacts with schools (visits to a school or hosting a visit here) - there are only190 days in the school year We also write to target schools thanking them for supporting applicants and encouraging others. We would not have any issue writing direct to students and our current students we are sure would happily help with this if a school sends us names of candidates they feel would benefit. Our email is
    [email protected]

    While at this stage we have to focus on the current admissions round, we will certainly review the claims made and the data provided as it is in our interest to attract and recruit students with potential to excel on their chosen courses.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    The resources are there - some will have to work harder to find them rather than being told where they are. The issue for many is knowing where they are, knowing whether they are reputable, and having the confidence go even try and find them in the first place.

    Training teachers isn’t as easy either. High turn over of staff and teachers who are already overloaded with work means the ability for there to be a dedicated knowledgable resource in a school is difficult. The problem is exacerbated by good teachers generally choosing to go to better schools. Those who take on the challenge of working in under performing schools probably have to worry more about getting their students as a group to turn up regularly and get a C in Maths/English. They will have bigger fish to fry than getting kids into Oxbridge.
    You seem to be CAN'T DO person: stop making excuses all the time.

    All schools should be good. If not, why not?
    All teachers should be capable of learning the Oxbridge process.
    No child should just aspire to get a C.
    Students by and large turn up to good schools.

    Mossbourne Academy would never have been turned around with thinking like yours.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    You seem to be CAN'T DO person: stop making excuses all the time.

    All schools should be good. If not, why not?
    All teachers should be capable of learning the Oxbridge process.
    No child should just aspire to get a C.
    Students by and large turn up to good schools.

    Mossbourne Academy would never have been turned around with thinking like yours.
    You are right. All schools should be good. But they aren’t. Some are horrendously under funded and resourced.

    I’d love to see your utopia. But I’m too busy trying to make changes in the real world.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    You seem to be CAN'T DO person: stop making excuses all the time.

    All schools should be good. If not, why not?
    All teachers should be capable of learning the Oxbridge process.
    No child should just aspire to get a C.
    Students by and large turn up to good schools.

    Mossbourne Academy would never have been turned around with thinking like yours.
    Pick your battles! You seem to have forgotten J-SP has been consistently critical of Oxbridge in this thread...

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Pick your battles! You seem to have forgotten J-SP has been consistently critical of Oxbridge in this thread...

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    Yes, but he argues they don't spend enough.

    I argue that they're spending it in the wrong way.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Pick your battles! You seem to have forgotten J-SP has been consistently critical of Oxbridge in this thread...

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    Please tell me you are being sarcastic.
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    "Oxford and Cambridge are two institutions that do not appear to show systematic or consistent bias against black or less privileged applicants."

    Well, well.:dance:
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    (Original post by BrasenoseAdm)
    We accept that it is perfectly valid to challenge whether Oxford (or Cambridge) should be more ambitious. Both Universities also accept that access remains a significant issue.

    That said, the Guardian criticism does lack some context. For example, while Oxford admits a small number of black British students the position is in fact worse at other selective Universities, according to UCAS:

    http://wonkhe.com/blogs/data-univers...missions-bias/

    This fact is important because the Universities listed in the above link all operate centralised admissions, which the authors of the newspaper and other commentators advocate as a solution.

    We would also point out that the survey period was 2010-15. This year, Oxford exceeded three of four its OFFA targets and is on course to achieve the other:

    https://www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and...egories?wssl=1

    Lastly, although Brasenose has not (as the Guardian suggests) written to every 6th former in the UK predicted to achieve the standard offer, we have made 1,146 posts on TSR and sent 286 messages to prospective applicants. In any given year, we also typically make 250 contacts with schools (visits to a school or hosting a visit here) - there are only190 days in the school year We also write to target schools thanking them for supporting applicants and encouraging others. We would not have any issue writing direct to students and our current students we are sure would happily help with this if a school sends us names of candidates they feel would benefit.Our email is
    [email protected]

    While at this stage we have to focus on the current admissions round, we will certainly review the claims made and the data provided as it is in our interest to attract and recruit students with potential to excel on their chosen courses.
    I applaud you. It’s good to finally see such a balanced and honest view of things in this thread.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Please tell me you are being sarcastic.
    ? me or allons...

    I'm not being sarcastic. You have, largely rightly, been critical of Oxbridge. I don't know why they've decided to have a pop at you...

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    ? me or allons...

    I'm not being sarcastic. You have, largely rightly, been critical of Oxbridge. I don't know why they've decided to have a pop at you...

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    I meant you.

    I’ve been critical of some of the things Oxbridge do/don’t do. But not consistently critical of them as a whole.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    Yes, but he argues they don't spend enough.

    I argue that they're spending it in the wrong way.
    Training teachers to be Oxbridge tutors would be a complete waste of money, and of their time.

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    (Original post by J-SP)
    I meant you.

    I’ve been critical of some of the things Oxbridge do/don’t do. But not consistently critical of them as a whole.
    Yes fair.

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Training teachers to be Oxbridge tutors would be a complete waste of money, and of their time.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Eh? When have I ever suggested teachers could be trained to be Oxbridge tutors.

    However, they can be trained in Oxbridge Admissions process which is a lot more complicated than submitting a UCAS form. Whilst GovernmentEarner is struggling along with a teacher who's as much in the dark as them; a small minority are attending Summer Schools etc. Having trained teachers in all schools to both identify Oxbridge candidates and take them through the process is far more important than these privileged schemes they run.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)
    Eh? When have I ever suggested teachers could be trained to be Oxbridge tutors.

    However, they can be trained in Oxbridge Admissions process which is a lot more complicated than submitting a UCAS form. Whilst GovernmentEarner is struggling along with a teacher who's as much in the dark as them; a small minority are attending Summer Schools etc. Having trained teachers in all schools to both identify Oxbridge candidates and take them through the process is far more important than these privileged schemes they run.
    The process is not *that* complicated, especially if applicants ignore all the myths. All an applicant needs to do is read the info provided, apply and fill in some forms. No teacher training is needed.

    The PS for Oxbridge is no different to your other choices. Oxford doesn't have an SAQ, and the one for Cambridge asks nothing that an applicant can't answer for themselves without a teacher's support.

    The real difference is with admissions assessments and the interview(s). And they are designed so that no preparation is required. Indeed overpreparation can end up disadvantaging an applicant.

    The process might *appear* daunting but that's because of the endless myths about it. And the role of outreach is to dispel those myths.

    The outreach activities are, indeed, training those teachers that go. And that's a good investment by Oxbridge.

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    The process is not *that* complicated, especially if applicants ignore all the myths. All an applicant needs to do is read the info provided, apply and fill in some forms. No teacher training is needed.

    The PS for Oxbridge is no different to your other choices. Oxford doesn't have an SAQ, and the one for Cambridge asks nothing that an applicant can't answer for themselves without a teacher's support.

    The real difference is with admissions assessments and the interview(s). And they are designed so that no preparation is required. Indeed overpreparation can end up disadvantaging an applicant.

    The process might *appear* daunting but that's because of the endless myths about it. And the role of outreach is to dispel those myths.

    The outreach activities are, indeed, training those teachers that go. And that's a good investment by Oxbridge.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    I agree that you can't properly prepare for interview but you can definitely and should prepare for the admissions tests. Well the new batch of cambridge tests you can't properly prepare for because there's only 1 past paper but yeah.
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    (Original post by black1blade)
    I agree that you can't properly prepare for interview but you can definitely and should prepare for the admissions tests. Well the new batch of cambridge tests you can't properly prepare for because there's only 1 past paper but yeah.
    Yup, and that sort of limited prep is perfect. Cambridge don't want to divert applicants from the more important stuff, i.e. your A-levels etc.

    Getting tutoring or whatever to do the AAs is a waste of time and effort.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    No teacher training is needed.


    Posted from TSR Mobile

    https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ns-really-work

    Remember that article? Of course teachers need training.

    "A good school" is a high-performing one. It is a school that knows what Cambridge requires, where the school reference is delivered in the terms the university is looking for – the key phrases are ones that emphasise superlative performance compared with their age group: "He [or she] is best in … he is top of …"

    "The school doesn't know how to write a reference," another comments.

    "There is consternation about a candidate who is applying to read natural sciences without having either maths or biology; he is taking physics and chemistry but his third A-level is an arts subject. The lack of maths rules him out for the study of physics. The absence of biology means he will struggle to be accepted as a biologist... "I feel sorry for him, but I don't think we can fix the problem."
 
 
 
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