Oxbridge = Inaccessible to most students?

I used to think that anyone with the talent, passion for their chosen subject and work ethic could get in. I no longer think so.

David Lammy was hitting the deadlines yesterday about the number of black entrants, but what he really should have been complaining about is the lack of transparency in admissions decisions.

I used to think that anyone with the talent, passion for their chosen subject and work ethic could get in. I no longer think so.

David Lammy was hitting the deadlines yesterday about the number of black entrants, but what he really should have been complaining about is the lack of transparency in admissions decisions.

Where does it say that those people won't be successful?

I think the other thing now is that the admissions system has been made doubly difficult since the 80s. Then, there was an entrance test, for my subject which I mugged up on, and a general paper, in which I remember mentioning something in the news I had heard that morning. But the difference was the entrance conditions were only TWO Es at A Level! So if you were good at your own subject, it didn't matter about the others. Then they introduced the Hertford Scheme, where you didn't do an entrance test, but just needed good grades at A Level. But now, you have to be brilliant in an entrance test AND get the top grades at A Level. Much like Jeremy Corbyn I did really poorly in my other two subjects - now I would have missed my grades and been rejected at the last moment. No wonder people are discouraged from applying nowadays.

If you live in certain areas of the UK, recent history tells those kids they won't be successful.

Go and speak to the teacher from Middlesborough quoted in the David Lammy study. She describes a student who was outstandingly gifted at maths. The school worked really hard with him to make an application. He didn't get in and there was little or no feedback telling him why he hadn't been successful. Anybody living in these areas know kids who are remarkable and who would be more than deserving of an Oxbridge place, and yet they don't get in.

I don't know why you don't accept this?

If you live in certain areas of the UK, recent history tells those kids they won't be successful.

Go and speak to the teacher from Middlesborough quoted in the David Lammy study. She describes a student who was outstandingly gifted at maths. The school worked really hard with him to make an application. He didn't get in and there was little or no feedback telling him why he hadn't been successful. Anybody living in these areas know kids who are remarkable and who would be more than deserving of an Oxbridge place, and yet they don't get in.

I don't know why you don't accept this?

Assuming this was for Oxford, if they did well enough at MAT and in Interview they would get an Offer. It seems they didn't.

I accept mistakes can be made, and more can be done (feedback is actually a tricky area and can certainly be improved), but on the whole they seem to get it right.

Do you really think that 'on the whole they get it right'?

What a kick in the teeth to bright kids who are black or who don't live in the Home Counties or North London that statement is.

Nope, "bright kids" from all sorts of backgrounds/ethnicities and locations get in every year.

My understanding is the offer success rate for Black British is not out of kilter with other applicants given the courses they apply for. If you have evidence to the contrary please share.

You have this bizarre insistence that all is fair and equal, even in the face of an in depth report by David Lammy which proves that it really isn't. Letting in a few people from particular backgrounds whilst letting in a lot more (x1000 in some cases) people from other backgrounds is not an equitable system. I really cannot grasp your inability to see that a real, tangible unfairness exists.

Nope, "bright kids" from all sorts of backgrounds/ethnicities and locations get in every year.

My understanding is the offer success rate for Black British is not out of kilter with other applicants given the courses they apply for. If you have evidence to the contrary please share.

Social mobility was much better in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Its been in decline since. I suspect if you were that equivalent person now you find more barriers than less.

For everyone who does it on their own (and I applaud them for that) there’s many more that don’t even get the encouragement, like you did from your family friend, so don’t even consider it in the first place.

This is a quote from Oxford University's spokesperson in response to David Lammy's report.

“a long journey that requires huge, joined-up effort across society – including from leading universities like Oxford – to address serious inequalities”.

Yet you tell people on this board time and again that there is no problem. What's your agenda?

You don’t know how many applied from those areas though. It could easily be that 3 people applied and only one got in.

Show me the data about offer rates for Black British (the bit more directly in Oxbridge's control), not application rates.

Also:



Are Cumbria, Gateshead, York, Darlington in the Home Counties?

I'm not saying there's no problem. I'm saying you can't put all (or even most) of the blame at Oxbridge's door.

That doesn't represent what you have been saying at all. You claim there is no problem. You have said that Oxford get the admissions process right.

I accept mistakes can be made, and more can be done (feedback is actually a tricky area and can certainly be improved), but on the whole they seem to get it right.