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    (Original post by itsfantanoo)
    Well my point is that they can make more of that sort of stuff publicly accessible and have more resources to help. Maybe they can send it out to schools to offer more clarit and help better prepare students. That's literally it. A couple specimen papers isnt gonna cut it.

    Well guess what! none of the harrow boy tw ats that get in took "initiative" they got everything fed with a silver spoon.
    It is all publicly accessible on their websites! They literally run courses to help teachers know how to better prepare their students!

    That'll be why state school students do better in their degrees...
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    (Original post by Etoile)
    It is all publicly accessible on their websites! They literally run courses to help teachers know how to better prepare their students!

    That'll be why state school students do better in their degrees...
    Well looking at the stats its not working.

    Yes, because Oxbridge is obviously going to follow the trend of the rest of the unis even though it's the best 2...
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    (Original post by itsfantanoo)
    It helps to understand Cambridge as a uni if you know nothing about it.
    Bingo.
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    (Original post by itsfantanoo)
    Well looking at the stats its not working.

    Yes, because Oxbridge is obviously going to follow the trend of the rest of the unis even though it's the best 2...
    Going back to my original post, the biggest problem they currently face is the vox populi that says Oxbridge isn't for certain groups of people. They are certainly doing as much as they can to attract working class students and they also do a lot to support those students when they arrive in the form of bursaries and scholarships (including book grants, travel grants etc too that most universities don't offer).
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    (Original post by itsfantanoo)
    Well looking at the stats its not working.
    What? The proportion of public schooled students at Cambridge has been falling steadily.

    41.2% in 2011
    37.5% in 2016
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    What? The proportion of public schooled students at Cambridge has been falling steadily.

    41.2% in 2011
    37.5% in 2016
    Do you have the figures for comprehensive schooled students as well? As I posted earlier, the proportion of grammar school students (and in comparison the lack of comp schooled students) did really surprise me when I was an undergrad.
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    (Original post by DFranklin)
    Do you have the figures for comprehensive schooled students as well? As I posted earlier, the proportion of grammar school students (and in comparison the lack of comp schooled students) did really surprise me when I was an undergrad.
    Relatively few comps have sixth forms, so you need to aggregate comps, sixth forms and fe colleges. But yes it's on the pdf on the admissions stats page.

    Edit: total share of applications from Home grammar students was 17.8%, eventually taking up 22.2% of Home places.
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    (Original post by Carbon Dioxide)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41664459
    ...OK, so I've hardly come up with Fermat's Last Theorem there, but according to FOI data acquired by David Lammy (a Labour MP), Oxford and Cambridge are understood to be mostly sending offers to the more well-off regions of England (mostly southern, some northern - about half of ALL offers go to those in London and the south-east).
    Except this data is all publicly available and didn't need an FOI at all. Not the first time Mr Lammy has insincerely claimed to have personally acquired data. No mention in the article applauding Oxbridge for acquiring and keeping such extensive data at their own expense, of course. I wonder if that's why these articles never have a non-Oxbridge uni for comparison. Oxbridge mainly gets its students from the South East. I wonder if Manchester mainly gets its students from the North West?
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    (Original post by Etoile)
    Nope - Oxford alone (and that's the university itself, not including the colleges' individual spending) pays for "outreach programmes costing £4m a year, summer schools and £8m annually in financial support." Cambridge says " It is estimated that, in 2017–18, overall expenditure [on widening participation and outreach] by the collegiate University will be approximately £9.5m, including bursaries and other financial measures."

    Yes, isn't it good that other universities now participate in a scheme originally just run at Oxbridge!

    What more is there to say about the interview when every one is unique? Depending on subject you will be asked about an unseen text you had a half hour to read beforehand, or asked to solve a problem, or asked about something on your personal statement.

    What do you think they should do then?
    I think that spending more than 0.6% of their revenue on these initiatives and bursaries would be a good start.
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    (Original post by Etoile)
    Going back to my original post, the biggest problem they currently face is the vox populi that says Oxbridge isn't for certain groups of people. They are certainly doing as much as they can to attract working class students and they also do a lot to support those students when they arrive in the form of bursaries and scholarships (including book grants, travel grants etc too that most universities don't offer).
    But they clearly aren’t doing enough with the actual admissions process - the stats which ever way you cut them are woefully disproportionate.

    It’s great they are doing all of these things, but it either isn’t working or isn’t enough.
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    Pupils in the underrepresented areas are playing against a rigged deck of cards when it comes to applying to Oxbridge.
    I like David Lammy's suggestion that only those areas of the UK that seem to be successful in sending children to Oxbridge (Hertfordshire, Bucks etc) should contribute to their funding through taxes.
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    (Original post by AnaBaptist)
    Pupils in the underrepresented areas are playing against a rigged deck of cards when it comes to applying to Oxbridge.
    I like David Lammy's suggestion that only those areas of the UK that seem to be successful in sending children to Oxbridge (Hertfordshire, Bucks etc) should contribute to their funding through taxes.
    That could compound the problem.

    Why would you let in more people from low wealth counties if you are going to get less income from them via a tax? You’d purposely target high wealth counties/regions to ensure you got more money as a university.
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    Let us not forget that 20% of Labour MPs went to Oxbridge. Shameful.

    Also nearly 15% of the Red Menace were privately educated.

    Accurate data on Labour MPs who send their children to private school are not easily available.


    https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...-is-parliament
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    That could compound the problem.

    Why would you let in more people from low wealth counties if you are going to get less income from them via a tax? You’d purposely target high wealth counties/regions to ensure you got more money as a university.
    They already do that. The problem is here already and isn't waiting in the wings.
    Only a tiny proportion of counties are benefiting from Oxbridge. If we cut the funding from counties like Teeside, Merseyside, the whole of Wales and all the other places the education system discriminates against, it would decimate Oxbridge funding and they'd have no choice other than to sharpen up their act.

    And for those people who say it should all be on merit, I agree. The bright kids from the North have been discriminated against for years. This would put a stop to that.
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    (Original post by AnaBaptist)
    They already do that. The problem is here already and isn't waiting in the wings.
    Only a tiny proportion of counties are benefiting from Oxbridge. If we cut the funding from counties like Teeside, Merseyside, the whole of Wales and all the other places the education system discriminates against, it would decimate Oxbridge funding and they'd have no choice other than to sharpen up their act.

    And for those people who say it should all be on merit, I agree. The bright kids from the North have been discriminated against for years. This would put a stop to that.
    If it is proportionate of population then it could work. But then you’d need to apply this fairly across universities, and it would mean the poorer universities would get poorer too. It could be detrimental to a university like Hull, who would be reliant on funding from a relatively small catchment area, and a poorer one at that.

    I agree something needs to be done. But cutting university funding isn’t going to help.
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    (Original post by AnaBaptist)
    They already do that. The problem is here already and isn't waiting in the wings.
    Only a tiny proportion of counties are benefiting from Oxbridge. If we cut the funding from counties like Teeside, Merseyside, the whole of Wales and all the other places the education system discriminates against, it would decimate Oxbridge funding and they'd have no choice other than to sharpen up their act.

    And for those people who say it should all be on merit, I agree. The bright kids from the North have been discriminated against for years. This would put a stop to that.
    Universities are primarily funded by student tuition fees so this doesn't apply.

    The other source is research funding, which again isn't regionally sourced.

    Attachment 697402

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Universities are primarily funded by student tuition fees so this doesn't apply.

    The other source is research funding, which again isn't regionally sourced.

    Attachment 697402

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    They still get about a fifth from the Government. If you cut this to represent the demographic of the Oxbridge intake, they'd feel the pinch.
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    (Original post by AnaBaptist)
    They still get about a fifth from the Government. If you cut this to represent the demographic of the Oxbridge intake, they'd feel the pinch.
    I don't have the number to hand but I expect it's lower for Oxbridge. They have endowments and much higher research income than most universities.
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    This is not new really.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    I don't have the number to hand but I expect it's lower for Oxbridge. They have endowments and much higher research income than most universities.
    It really doesn't matter what the figure is to be honest. I'm sure they'd throw a few fundraisers to plug the deficit. The fact is that it would be a very powerful message to Oxbridge that they cannot continue to discriminate against certain applicants.

    I know there will be a lot of resistance to what David Lammy has said, on this board and further afield because it is in the interest of a lot of people to keep the status quo, but we need to keep the conversation about this going as long as possible because it is a national disgrace.
 
 
 
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