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Which universities have traditional medical courses except oxbridge? Watch

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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    QUB is full of students. You will have many like-minded people and some people who aren't. That's the same anywhere.

    And politics in NI is fundamentally not about Conservatives/Labour/Liberal - and you wouldn't be expected to know anything about it. I wouldn't worry about it.

    If the course appeals, apply.
    Thanks.I will look into it.I never thought about going to university in NI but now that I know about Queens I'm going to look into it.
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    (Original post by artful_lounger)
    Also to go back to my initial point, without elaborating too much so you can take the opportunity to learn more about what the profession actually entails - PBL provides not only a suitable scientific and professional background for being a good pracitcing physician or surgeon, but it has been taken up as one of the primary methods of education, including as for example Harvard Medical School (where "traditional" format medical education is only available for MD/PhD students in the joint Harvard-MIT HST section, due to the advanced quantitative methods used), because it has been demonstrated to provide superior clinical abilities for physicians and surgeons.
    This thread isn't about what Harvard Medical School offers. It is about what is best for the OP. Not everyone thrives in the same learning environment, which is why every medical school is so varied in its teaching. I do not think there is such a thing as a perfect way of learning medicine - it is too varied a subject, with so many skills (both hard and soft) to pick up and integrate with your personality, that it really does come down to each individual, their motivations and their styles of learning.

    (Original post by artful_lounger)
    If you lack the ability to appreciate decades of medical education research has determined that such integrated methods provide at least equivalent if not better scientific and practical clinical knowledge to become a physician or surgeon then perhaps medicine is not a good option
    I don't understand what you're getting at here. The poor guy was just asking which medical schools offer a traditional curriculum. He was not preaching his prejudices about the divineness of traditional medical schools over PBL. He offered his own opinion about why he felt that a traditional course would be best for him. I feel he is entitled to make that decision, and a traditional course in no way makes you a worse (or better) doctor.

    (Original post by artful_lounger)
    You need to be able to step back and appreciate that someone else may have more knowledge and better ability to advise on specific circumstances - this is not about me or this thread, but in terms of medicine generally. You cannot be a physician or surgeon as an island and refuse to interact with or take the advice of your colleagues. This same principle applies here. You are a year 12 student. You do not know what will provide the best medical education for you. If you are more inclined to scientific and academic possibilities, then focus on selecting courses to apply to which require or offer the ability to intercalate in a scientific discipline allied to medicine as well as more clinical areas.
    When I was in Year 12 I sure as hell didn't care what the research said about medical education. I didn't base my medical school choices on pedagogical research or what Harvard Medical School was doing. I based it on where I was most likely to get an offer, the style of teaching that I felt most suited my learning needs and the location. I do not think there is anything wrong with that line of thinking.


    (Original post by artful_lounger)
    It's not possible for you to know what will and won't benefit you.
    And you do?

    I would argue that OP is the best person as only he knows himself, his personality and his learning style. He may have a skewed view on traditional courses or what PBL courses offer, but that does not mean that his opinion does not matter.



    (Original post by artful_lounger)
    YIf your aim is to not become a practicing physician or surgeon, don't apply to medicine. A PBL course is just as suitable for a budding academic clinician as a traditional and vice versa for those not wanting to pursue that route.
    You have repeated this statement many times now, but I don't understand why you're assuming the OP doesn't want to actually practice medicine.

    (Original post by artful_lounger)
    a) do your own research, the onus of validating is on the questioner. It's not hard to use google scholar.
    I am not denying the facts you posted, but you are the one who brought them up.

    (Original post by artful_lounger)
    humans are (largely) the same across the world, and medical education in the US is comparable to the UK.
    Except that they work in different healthcare systems, in different political spheres, with different racial backgrounds, different ethnic minorities, different viewpoints, perspectives, funding issues, social care and resources.

    Anyway.. OP:

    I have noticed a lot of people on TSR seem to think that PBL courses are 'bad.' I definitely felt the same when I applied. It's important to remember that lectures are not the same as classes that you are used to in school. Lectures often consist of >300 people, with little interaction with the lecturer and a lot of self-motivation required. PBL curriculums are not as bad as you think, and it may be worth speaking to some students who are currently in these other curriculums to get a good idea of what the curriculum actually involve.

    Otherwise, I don't think you necessarily have a 'skewed' view of medicine, nor do i think that 'medicine is not the career for you.' I think it's great that you've started to do some research already. I went to a very 'traditional' medical school (it has since changed) with lectures 9am-5pm in the first two years followed by three years of clinical placement, so am happy to answer any questions on that front if you want.
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    (Original post by Angury)
    This thread isn't about what Harvard Medical School offers. It is about what is best for the OP. Not everyone thrives in the same learning environment, which is why every medical school is so varied in its teaching. I do not think there is such a thing as a perfect way of learning medicine - it is too varied a subject, with so many skills (both hard and soft) to pick up and integrate with your personality, that it really does come down to each individual, their motivations and their styles of learning.



    I don't understand what you're getting at here. The poor guy was just asking which medical schools offer a traditional curriculum. He was not preaching his prejudices about the divineness of traditional medical schools over PBL. He offered his own opinion about why he felt that a traditional course would be best for him. I feel he is entitled to make that decision, and a traditional course in no way makes you a worse (or better) doctor.



    When I was in Year 12 I sure as hell didn't care what the research said about medical education. I didn't base my medical school choices on pedagogical research or what Harvard Medical School was doing. I based it on where I was most likely to get an offer, the style of teaching that I felt most suited my learning needs and the location. I do not think there is anything wrong with that line of thinking.




    And you do?

    I would argue that OP is the best person as only he knows himself, his personality and his learning style. He may have a skewed view on traditional courses or what PBL courses offer, but that does not mean that his opinion does not matter.





    You have repeated this statement many times now, but I don't understand why you're assuming the OP doesn't want to actually practice medicine.



    I am not denying the facts you posted, but you are the one who brought them up.



    Except that they work in different healthcare systems, in different political spheres, with different racial backgrounds, different ethnic minorities, different viewpoints, perspectives, funding issues, social care and resources.

    Anyway.. OP:

    I have noticed a lot of people on TSR seem to think that PBL courses are 'bad.' I definitely felt the same when I applied. It's important to remember that lectures are not the same as classes that you are used to in school. Lectures often consist of >300 people, with little interaction with the lecturer and a lot of self-motivation required. PBL curriculums are not as bad as you think, and it may be worth speaking to some students who are currently in these other curriculums to get a good idea of what the curriculum actually involve.

    Otherwise, I don't think you necessarily have a 'skewed' view of medicine, nor do i think that 'medicine is not the career for you.' I think it's great that you've started to do some research already. I went to a very 'traditional' medical school (it has since changed) with lectures 9am-5pm in the first two years followed by three years of clinical placement, so am happy to answer any questions on that front if you want.
    Thank you so much for your reply, it really made my day.This reply is probably the highlight of my entire month . I never thought of pbl courses as bad it's just when I looked at it online what it consists of I really thought this thing about here is a case study figure out what's going on thing wouldn't work for me, that's the impression I got from what the medic portal was describing it as and the other things I read I would feel that I wouldn't be benefiting as much as possible from the course.

    I would really if you could please tell me more about the traditional course and what you feel personally the pros and cons of it are,Im'm very interested of hearing about personal experiences.Which universities do you think except oxbridge offer a mostly traditional course, since a lot of university courses have quite changed and are more integrated.I really want a medical school that doesn't have too much patient contact at first and focuses heavily on the science behind everything,Im a very curious person and I just really want to understand the science behind medicine.
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    (Original post by Angury)
    This thread isn't about what Harvard Medical School offers. It is about what is best for the OP. Not everyone thrives in the same learning environment, which is why every medical school is so varied in its teaching. I do not think there is such a thing as a perfect way of learning medicine - it is too varied a subject, with so many skills (both hard and soft) to pick up and integrate with your personality, that it really does come down to each individual, their motivations and their styles of learning.



    I don't understand what you're getting at here. The poor guy was just asking which medical schools offer a traditional curriculum. He was not preaching his prejudices about the divineness of traditional medical schools over PBL. He offered his own opinion about why he felt that a traditional course would be best for him. I feel he is entitled to make that decision, and a traditional course in no way makes you a worse (or better) doctor.



    When I was in Year 12 I sure as hell didn't care what the research said about medical education. I didn't base my medical school choices on pedagogical research or what Harvard Medical School was doing. I based it on where I was most likely to get an offer, the style of teaching that I felt most suited my learning needs and the location. I do not think there is anything wrong with that line of thinking.




    And you do?

    I would argue that OP is the best person as only he knows himself, his personality and his learning style. He may have a skewed view on traditional courses or what PBL courses offer, but that does not mean that his opinion does not matter.





    You have repeated this statement many times now, but I don't understand why you're assuming the OP doesn't want to actually practice medicine.



    I am not denying the facts you posted, but you are the one who brought them up.



    Except that they work in different healthcare systems, in different political spheres, with different racial backgrounds, different ethnic minorities, different viewpoints, perspectives, funding issues, social care and resources.

    Anyway.. OP:

    I have noticed a lot of people on TSR seem to think that PBL courses are 'bad.' I definitely felt the same when I applied. It's important to remember that lectures are not the same as classes that you are used to in school. Lectures often consist of >300 people, with little interaction with the lecturer and a lot of self-motivation required. PBL curriculums are not as bad as you think, and it may be worth speaking to some students who are currently in these other curriculums to get a good idea of what the curriculum actually involve.

    Otherwise, I don't think you necessarily have a 'skewed' view of medicine, nor do i think that 'medicine is not the career for you.' I think it's great that you've started to do some research already. I went to a very 'traditional' medical school (it has since changed) with lectures 9am-5pm in the first two years followed by three years of clinical placement, so am happy to answer any questions on that front if you want.
    Also I would love to know as much about medicine as a carrer and applying for medicine as I can, I will pm you if I have any specific questions, any help would be very much appreciated .If you wouldn't mind me asking, what uni did you go to, so perhaps if it's one that Im looking into I could ask specific question about that universities course.
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    (Original post by Anonymous1502)
    Imperial is integrated not traditional.
    doesn't mean I can't say you're uttering absolute nonsense
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    (Original post by epistasis)
    doesn't mean I can't say you're uttering absolute nonsense
    Tell me which bits, you think are nonsense instead of labelling everything I say as nonsense, have a balanced argument.I have a preference and Im more suited for a traditional course and I do not understand what your problem is.
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    (Original post by Anonymous1502)
    Thank you so much for your reply, it really made my day.This reply is probably the highlight of my entire month . I never thought of pbl courses as bad it's just when I looked at it online what it consists of I really thought this thing about here is a case study figure out what's going on thing wouldn't work for me, that's the impression I got from what the medic portal was describing it as and the other things I read I would feel that I wouldn't be benefiting as much as possible from the course.

    I would really if you could please tell me more about the traditional course and what you feel personally the pros and cons of it are,Im'm very interested of hearing about personal experiences.Which universities do you think except oxbridge offer a mostly traditional course, since a lot of university courses have quite changed and are more integrated.I really want a medical school that doesn't have too much patient contact at first and focuses heavily on the science behind everything,Im a very curious person and I just really want to understand the science behind medicine.
    No problem.

    I had lectures 9am-5pm Monday-Friday for the first two years with a bit of lab work and dissection in between. I stopped going to lectures in second year because I found them pointless. I found I was unable to concentrate after about 30 minutes, and particularly when you are sitting in a large group of people, it is very difficult to concentrate for so long. I assumed I would enjoy lectures as I did well in school mainly because I was able to concentrate in class, but lectures are just so much more different. I was also quite shy (as are a lot of people at 18) and assumed small group teaching would be too difficult for me, so I avoided PBL - I have since realised that this isn't necessarily the case.

    I suspect most medical schools now offer some form of patient contact in first year. What will differ is how it is structured and whether you get anything out of it. The medical school I went to have changed the way first year placements work, so students are now expected by the medical team beforehand, they know what the students need to learn and are given time to offer a structure. This is not how it worked when I was in first year - we were basically thrown into a hospital and made to swim. So overall I'd say it's difficult to avoid patient contact altogether in your first year, but what matters is how it is arranged.

    I think for some people, avoiding patient contact in first year is down to self-confidence (not saying this is specific for you). You will find your confidence increase massively as you gain more exposure to patients, and often people go into medicine specifically because they love science and are terrified of actually meeting patients, but end up enjoying both. Do not let patient contact deter you.

    (Original post by Anonymous1502)
    Also I would love to know as much about medicine as a carrer and applying for medicine as I can, I will pm you if I have any specific questions, any help would be very much appreciated .If you wouldn't mind me asking, what uni did you go to, so perhaps if it's one that Im looking into I could ask specific question about that universities course.
    I went to Cardiff University. They have since moved to Case-Based Learning and I think it is much, much better. The students I have seen on placement since are much more confident and have more relevant knowledge than the rubbish I had to spew in my exams.

    I am happy to answer any questions via PM if you have any more queries.
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    (Original post by Anonymous1502)
    Im in year 12 -_-
    lol its too early dude - worry about it in the summer
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    (Original post by epistasis)
    doesn't mean I can't say you're uttering absolute nonsense
    You put other people down, when they're trying to become more informed about their course and show enthusiasm towards something by trying to become as informed as possible by asking questions and finding out more.I do not think the way you are acting is very nice or the appropriate response.
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    (Original post by Angury)
    No problem.

    I had lectures 9am-5pm Monday-Friday for the first two years with a bit of lab work and dissection in between. I stopped going to lectures in second year because I found them pointless. I found I was unable to concentrate after about 30 minutes, and particularly when you are sitting in a large group of people, it is very difficult to concentrate for so long. I assumed I would enjoy lectures as I did well in school mainly because I was able to concentrate in class, but lectures are just so much more different. I was also quite shy (as are a lot of people at 18) and assumed small group teaching would be too difficult for me, so I avoided PBL - I have since realised that this isn't necessarily the case.

    I suspect most medical schools now offer some form of patient contact in first year. What will differ is how it is structured and whether you get anything out of it. The medical school I went to have changed the way first year placements work, so students are now expected by the medical team beforehand, they know what the students need to learn and are given time to offer a structure. This is not how it worked when I was in first year - we were basically thrown into a hospital and made to swim. So overall I'd say it's difficult to avoid patient contact altogether in your first year, but what matters is how it is arranged.

    I think for some people, avoiding patient contact in first year is down to self-confidence (not saying this is specific for you). You will find your confidence increase massively as you gain more exposure to patients, and often people go into medicine specifically because they love science and are terrified of actually meeting patients, but end up enjoying both. Do not let patient contact deter you.



    I went to Cardiff University. They have since moved to Case-Based Learning and I think it is much, much better. The students I have seen on placement since are much more confident and have more relevant knowledge than the rubbish I had to spew in my exams.

    I am happy to answer any questions via PM if you have any more queries.
    Thank you for your response, it was very informative and enjoyable to read.I'm a bit worried about meeting patients at first and having no clue what is going on just like you described your experience at first about being made to swim, especially at the beginning when you have little knowledge about medicine.

    I'll pm you tomorrow with my questions
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    (Original post by epistasis)
    read the paragraphs you have written again and tell me why you think I said it's nonsense
    Personally I don't see the issue.And I also don't understand why Im being tested and challenged on why I want to do a traditional course, can you explain this one to me.
 
 
 
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