Turn on thread page Beta

The SNP wants to give Scotland to the EU dictatorship watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    They claim to be nationalist but the EU does not believe in nations. Its objectives are to get rid of all European nations and merge them into one superstate and to bring in as many immigrants as possible, so as to reduce the indigenous European population to a minority. The SNP is fully sympathetic to these aims and should not be taken seriously as a so called 'nationalist' party.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xyz544)
    They claim to be nationalist but the EU does not believe in nations. Its objectives are to get rid of all European nations and merge them into one superstate and to bring in as many immigrants as possible, so as to reduce the indigenous European population to a minority. The SNP is fully sympathetic to these aims and should not be taken seriously as a so called 'nationalist' party.
    What is the EU? Is it a person like Kim Jong Un or Xi Jinping?
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    I don't think you understand what a dictatorship is...
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    I don't think you understand what a dictatorship is...
    Centralized power.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by xyz544)
    Centralized power.
    Not that simple - if it were then Westminster would be a dictatorship too. Absolute power wielded by a small collective or single executive, typically without a semblance of democratic accountability. The EU is a democratic organisation, you may prefer a different type of democracy, but it's a democracy nonetheless
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Not that simple - if it were then Westminster would be a dictatorship too. Absolute power wielded by a small collective or single executive, typically without a semblance of democratic accountability. The EU is a democratic organisation, you may prefer a different type of democracy, but it's a democracy nonetheless
    The EU has a democratic deficit. The nation states of Europe used to make their own laws in a democratic fashion. Now their laws are dictated to them by the EU.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by xyz544)
    The EU has a democratic deficit. The nation states of Europe used to make their own laws in a democratic fashion. Now their laws are dictated to them by the EU.
    which are made democratically. As I said, with your position, parliament is a dictatorship, forcing laws on regional/local government.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    I don't think you understand what a dictatorship is...
    The EU Parliament cannot propose laws and the EU uses its financial clout to have elected politicians removed.

    its basically the enabling act
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by hannah00)
    The EU Parliament cannot propose laws
    Not the form of democracy I'd like =/= dictatorship. By that position I could claim to want direct democracy and so uk parliament is a dictatorship. It's obviously not, and neither is the EU.


    the EU uses its financial clout to have elected politicians removed
    Such as?
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    which are made democratically. As I said, with your position, parliament is a dictatorship, forcing laws on regional/local government.
    A nation is a place which can decide its own laws Otherwise it is no longer a nation.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    Not the form of democracy I'd like =/= dictatorship. By that position I could claim to want direct democracy and so uk parliament is a dictatorship. It's obviously not, and neither is the EU.
    Democracy has some basic tenants of an elected chamber having certain powers. Otherwise China = Democracy by that logic as even they vote.
    Not really because the UK parliament is the main law making body in the UK and is elected.




    Such as?[/QUOTE]

    Berlusconi and greece.


    Its classic dictatorship, fail to pass something at the local level so use EU institutions to bring it by stealth
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    which are made democratically. As I said, with your position, parliament is a dictatorship, forcing laws on regional/local government.
    I think the point he's trying to make is with the EU you have laws enforced on you if the majority agree with the law the commission put forward there is no going back unless you leave - there is no democratic choice against an EU law by the citizens of a nation state. The Irish found this much out...
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by hannah00)
    Democracy has some basic tenants of an elected chamber having certain powers.
    So, like a European Parliament, filled with directly elected personnel from member states, which then appoints the commission and votes on proposed legislations? Sounds fine, but you're a bit late, they've already got it.

    Not really because the UK parliament is the main law making body in the UK and is elected.
    The European Parliament is elected and ultimately approves laws... It's a far from perfect system, but it's not by any sensible measure a dictatorship, and by a measure to consider it a dictatorship, you could argue any traditional democracy is actually a dictatorship.


    Berlusconi and greece.
    This being the berlusconi who was guilty of embezzlement and tax fraud? So, did the evil eu fabricate the evidence against him?

    As for Greece, no. The Greek government were right about austerity, but you don't get to vote to ignore terms negotiated and keep the cake offered.

    (Original post by FL Watch)
    I think the point he's trying to make is with the EU you have laws enforced on you if the majority agree with the law the commission put forward there is no going back unless you leave - there is no democratic choice against an EU law by the citizens of a nation state. The Irish found this much out...
    Different to the uk, where parliament votes on legislation and enacts it in the event of a majority how?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    Well, this thread is a steaming pile of shite.
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by hannah00)
    The EU Parliament cannot propose laws and the EU uses its financial clout to have elected politicians removed.

    its basically the enabling act
    It approves laws. Hence democratic.

    (Original post by xyz544)
    A nation is a place which can decide its own laws Otherwise it is no longer a nation.
    Nations gave some of their sovereignty on their own free will. It would be a dictatorship if that were imposed on them, but it was not. Every member is free to leave.

    You can't enjoy the benefits of being in a massive market and complain about rules and whatnot.

    It's basic logic. Don't feed off of daily mail. Never does good.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Stiff Little Fingers)
    So, like a European Parliament, filled with directly elected personnel from member states, which then appoints the commission and votes on proposed legislations? Sounds fine, but you're a bit late, they've already got it.



    The European Parliament is elected and ultimately approves laws... It's a far from perfect system, but it's not by any sensible measure a dictatorship, and by a measure to consider it a dictatorship, you could argue any traditional democracy is actually a dictatorship.




    This being the berlusconi who was guilty of embezzlement and tax fraud? So, did the evil eu fabricate the evidence against him?

    As for Greece, no. The Greek government were right about austerity, but you don't get to vote to ignore terms negotiated and keep the cake offered.



    Different to the uk, where parliament votes on legislation and enacts it in the event of a majority how?
    You really miss the point, you do. The point I was trying to make was with a Parliamentary democracy, you can reform legislation over many years, if a government piss you off you can vote them out and the new government can make changes to legislation. When something goes into EU law, there is nothing the nation state can do to stop that. If there is a law in the EU which all of our MEP'S vote against, if they get a majority, the law still applies. The irish voted against a treaty 53% to 47%, instead of accepting the result, the EU made them vote again. With the EU it's either a matter of voting again or ignoring the result. Brexit has rattled there cage though.
    • TSR Support Team
    Offline

    21
    ReputationRep:
    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by FL Watch)
    You really miss the point, you do. The point I was trying to make was with a Parliamentary democracy, you can reform legislation over many years, if a government piss you off you can vote them out and the new government can make changes to legislation. When something goes into EU law, there is nothing the nation state can do to stop that. If there is a law in the EU which all of our MEP'S vote against, if they get a majority, the law still applies. The irish voted against a treaty 53% to 47%, instead of accepting the result, the EU made them vote again. With the EU it's either a matter of voting again or ignoring the result. Brexit has rattled there cage though.
    You realise of course that you can vote MEPs out? And that in the UK parliament you can have an entire party vote against something and it still become law - complaining the UK can be outvoted so it's not democratic is like complaining that my party can be outvoted so the UK isn't democratic. People who complain the EU is a dictatorship are engaging in absurd hyperbole.

    Yeah, the Irish voted against the treaty, went back to the EU for reassurances and slight modifications, which satisfied enough to vote for it a second time. Literally how democracy is supposed to work.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xyz544)
    A nation is a place which can decide its own laws Otherwise it is no longer a nation.
    Can you give an example of a nation which decides it's own laws?

    Switzerland with its referendums perhaps, but most nations put law making into the hands of a small number of people.

    As for the SNP, they want the ability to make such decisions and laws, so according to your definition they are nationalists.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by _Fergo)
    It approves laws. Hence democratic.



    Nations gave some of their sovereignty on their own free will. It would be a dictatorship if that were imposed on them, but it was not. Every member is free to leave.

    You can't enjoy the benefits of being in a massive market and complain about rules and whatnot.

    It's basic logic. Don't feed off of daily mail. Never does good.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    That is the point of the EU. To destroy the sovereignty of the European nations.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    4
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Quady)
    Can you give an example of a nation which decides it's own laws?

    Switzerland with its referendums perhaps, but most nations put law making into the hands of a small number of people.

    As for the SNP, they want the ability to make such decisions and laws, so according to your definition they are nationalists.
    Britain made all its own laws until 1972, when Edward Heath signed the Treaty of Rome. That was the beginning. The ultimate objective is World Government.
 
 
 
The home of Results and Clearing

1,196

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
Do you want your parents to be with you when you collect your A-level results?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.