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    (Original post by looloo2134)
    the only reason skin cancer is high because Israel has amazing health care service which also treat for free Palestinians. The cases are reported properly unlike other countries in the area which do not have as good health care systems and women are cover for head to toe so their don't going get skin cancer.

    Israeli Jew come from load of countries including Arab countries and they are all ethnics.


    Over 70,000 Indian Jews now live in Israel (over 1% of Israel's total population)

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel...rab-countries/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistani_Jews_in_Israel
    Rigggght, so I'm assuming every other country in the Middle East treats their citizens in mud hut hospitals with snake blood and dried camel dung?

    According to the World Health Organisation, Israel is ranked as having the 28th best healthcare system in the world. Saudi Arabia is ranked 26th, UAE is ranked 27th.

    Israeli's also cover their bodies, or does everyone walk around butt naked? The dress culture in the UAE and Israel are similar in modesty, so why does Israel have such a disproportionate amount of skin cancer in its population?

    Your arguments are frankly absurd and make absolutely no sense.
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    (Original post by calsmith12)
    Listen, I would love to present my reasons for denying the holocaust but I would be banned by moderators for anti-semitism.
    I didn't ask for your personal reasons. I asked why, given your prior claim that the widespread marginalisation and discrediting of Holocaust denial was due to laws against it, it is also discredited and marginalised in countries where it isn't banned.

    I've already had several warnings for daring to speak negatively of Israel so I won't push my luck.
    I've spoken negatively of Israel on this site for years and never been warned or banned for it, so I suspect any warnings were for something more than that.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    I didn't ask for your personal reasons. I asked why, given your prior claim that the widespread marginalisation and discrediting of Holocaust denial was due to laws against it, it is also discredited and marginalised in countries where it isn't banned.



    I've spoken negatively of Israel on this site for years and never been warned or banned for it, so I suspect any warnings were for something more than that.
    "it is also discredited and marginalised in countries where it isn't banned"

    I haven't heard of these arguments been refuted:
    - Fred Leuchter had the alleged gas chamber walls tested for iron bonded cyanide (Prussian blue), revealed no significant trace when compared with the results of similar tests of the delousing chamber walls, which revealed significant percentage of the compound.

    - A Polish study was then contracted by the Auschwitz museum with the intent of "debunking" Leuchter's findings and performed in a manner that specifically EXCLUDED iron bonded cyanide from detection. The results noted a few parts per billion of other cyanide compounds in the alleged gas chambers walls, they claim other buildings in the area resulted in literally zero cyanide.

    - Germar Rudolf then did a study and achieved results showing TOTAL cyanide content including all compounds, which again revealed that the delousing chambers showed many orders of magnitude greater total cyanide content than alleged gas chamber walls.


    - All Jews in the concentration camps were tattooed, if the Nazis were planning on kill them all, they would not waste valuable resources and time on marking each individual Jew.

    - Auschwitz has very little Prussian Blue compared to Majdanek, despite a very large death toll difference (nearly 1 million)

    - If they planned to kill every inmate of Auschwitz, why did they go through the trouble of building luxurious amenities including a hospital, dental facility, theatre, swimming pool, cinema, brothel, library, sauna, football field, maternity ward etc.

    "I've spoken negatively of Israel on this site for years and never been warned or banned for it" - Yes, sure you have.
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    (Original post by calsmith12)
    Well, that's a blatant lie. Christianity is also on the rise in Iran and was on the rise in Syria. In fact, Syria was the most secular nation in the middle east and the most tolerant of Christianity before the war broke out.

    Urm, what does non-Jews volunteering for the national serve have to do with anything. It's Israel as a whole that is being discussed here, not only Jews.
    Anti-Zionism does not equal Anti-Semitism.

    Anyone can make up a story like that, watch: my sister has been to Israel and hated it, she got harassed by orthodox rabbis for wearing the cross around her neck. On public transport she said men were all around her, touching her sexually. See? Anyone can make up a story and claim it's true.
    First the only reason that Christians were safe in Syria was because Bashar Hafez al-Assad Now there war the Christians are being murder just like in Iraq. The second worst country in the world to be Christian is Iraq.

    Iran is not Middle East it Persia it second biggest religion is Zoroastrians it also has a high level of education. However Muslims convent to Christianity is illegal and can be in prison or killed. Christians and Jews can convent Islam

    Volunteering for national service prove that non-Jewish Israeli enjoy living in Israel and the rights they have.

    I can't be both to talk you because you mock and call me a lair being your incapable of believing that group of Palestinian Muslims sexuality attacked me in the street.
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    (Original post by Alisa59)
    Thanks for the evidences. However, I feel like almost all of the sites are not reliable.

    Reading the wikipedia, the skunk part is for 'crowd control'. In no way did they mention to harm the civilians. Generally, Palestinians are pretty violent and abusive towards Israelis, and the army has to control them by using that canon. Why would the IDF do such a thing to harm Palestinian innocents?

    The death toll doesn't mean that the IDF killed Palestinian innocents. There are a number of factors: suicide bombings; being silenced because they attacked Israelis first; being martyrs; civilians being close to Hamas or Fatah's location since they're the target for the IDF.

    I don't know about the circumcision part. I feel like it's just some extreme business. I don't think all Jews would do that, same thing for Muslim circumcisions.

    The gay conversion part and sex marriage parts are false. Israel has more freedom of rights than any other middle eastern country.There are gays there and gay marriages, and also LGBT parties or whatever there. I think some of those actions mentioned in the links are for extremes, or maybe some deluded idiots writing BS on them. I'm pretty shocked that Wikipedia would say such a thing because I've read that there's a gay couple living in Israel.
    "Reading the wikipedia, the skunk part is for 'crowd control'. In no way did they mention to harm the civilians. Generally, Palestinians are pretty violent and abusive towards Israelis, and the army has to control them by using that canon. Why would the IDF do such a thing to harm Palestinian innocents?"

    - There is videographic proof that shows Israeli forces using the skunk cannon against Palestinian homes, which forces them to put up with a putrid smell for months or become homeless (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5OwN1e-wk). No, generally, it's the Israelis who are violent against Palestinians to the point of putting resources towards inventing new ways of making their lives as difficult as possible. Why would the IDF do such a thing, you ask? Because they're savages that take pleasure in human misery.

    "The death toll doesn't mean that the IDF killed Palestinian innocents. There are a number of factors: suicide bombings; being silenced because they attacked Israelis first; being martyrs; civilians being close to Hamas or Fatah's location since they're the target for the IDF"

    - Do you have any evidence that those factors play a substantial part in the Palestinian death toll?

    "I don't know about the circumcision part. I feel like it's just some extreme business. I don't think all Jews would do that, same thing for Muslim circumcisions"

    - Oral suction circumcision is a very big part of Jewish culture, it's not just limited to rural orthodox communities.

    "The gay conversion part and sex marriage parts are false. Israel has more freedom of rights than any other middle eastern country.There are gays there and gay marriages, and also LGBT parties or whatever there. I think some of those actions mentioned in the links are for extremes, or maybe some deluded idiots writing BS on them. I'm pretty shocked that Wikipedia would say such a thing because I've read that there's a gay couple living in Israel"

    - So, you ask me for evidence only to discredit every source I provided? I give up...
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    (Original post by admonit)
    Don't you think that such serious claim needs a serious proof?

    The same.

    What you mean?
    Ultra-Orthodox and many religious schools actually teach Jews to hate Arabs, same as Arab-Radical schools teach to hate Jews.

    I am Jewish Israeli but I am not Zionist, that is exactly what it means.
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    (Original post by calsmith12)
    Rigggght, so I'm assuming every other country in the Middle East treats their citizens in mud hut hospitals with snake blood and dried camel dung?

    According to the World Health Organisation, Israel is ranked as having the 28th best healthcare system in the world. Saudi Arabia is ranked 26th, UAE is ranked 27th.

    Israeli's also cover their bodies, or does everyone walk around butt naked? The dress culture in the UAE and Israel are similar in modesty, so why does Israel have such a disproportionate amount of skin cancer in its population?

    Your arguments are frankly absurd and make absolutely no sense.
    Actually the reason is very simple. Israeli use much more sun-cream which causes the caner and not the UV rays from the sun... Simple conclusion from such statistics.
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    (Original post by calsmith12)
    Rigggght, so I'm assuming every other country in the Middle East treats their citizens in mud hut hospitals with snake blood and dried camel dung?

    According to the World Health Organisation, Israel is ranked as having the 28th best healthcare system in the world. Saudi Arabia is ranked 26th, UAE is ranked 27th.

    Israeli's also cover their bodies, or does everyone walk around butt naked? The dress culture in the UAE and Israel are similar in modesty, so why does Israel have such a disproportionate amount of skin cancer in its population?

    Your arguments are frankly absurd and make absolutely no sense.
    Don't talk to like that Saudi Arabia uses oil money and pay millions to get best doctors from around the world. If they run out of oil today all the worker from over sea their Health System would fell a part.

    UAE healthcare system is staffed by worker from over sea most of UAE population are expats. The locals are covered from head to feet in arab clothing so most of their skins covered.


    Israelis sun bath a lot if you go to any beach is Israel you see people in swimwear that way their skin cancer

    The World Health Organisation pick Mugabe as 'good will ambassador' a man who single handle wracked Zimbabwe Health Care System. So I don't think a lot of there Health Care Rankings.
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    (Original post by calsmith12)
    "it is also discredited and marginalised in countries where it isn't banned"

    I haven't heard of these arguments been refuted:
    Again, wasn't the question. "Refuted" and "discredited" are different. If it's so irrefutable, then why does it remain so marginal and irrelevant in serious history even in countries where it is not banned?

    - Fred Leuchter had the alleged gas chamber walls tested for iron bonded cyanide (Prussian blue), revealed no significant trace when compared with the results of similar tests of the delousing chamber walls, which revealed significant percentage of the compound.

    - A Polish study was then contracted by the Auschwitz museum with the intent of "debunking" Leuchter's findings and performed in a manner that specifically EXCLUDED iron bonded cyanide from detection. The results noted a few parts per billion of other cyanide compounds in the alleged gas chambers walls, they claim other buildings in the area resulted in literally zero cyanide.

    - Germar Rudolf then did a study and achieved results showing TOTAL cyanide content including all compounds, which again revealed that the delousing chambers showed many orders of magnitude greater total cyanide content than alleged gas chamber walls.
    Yawn, this was all played out in the Irving-Lipstadt trial years ago.

    Also, has the fact that lice take more cyanide to kill than humans not sunk in yet?

    - All Jews in the concentration camps were tattooed
    No, they weren't. Where's this claim coming from?

    - Auschwitz has very little Prussian Blue compared to Majdanek, despite a very large death toll difference (nearly 1 million)
    Who's this according to, Leuchter? Citation heavily needed.

    - If they planned to kill every inmate of Auschwitz
    Which they didn't.

    why did they go through the trouble of building luxurious amenities including a hospital, dental facility, theatre, swimming pool, cinema, brothel, library, sauna, football field, maternity ward etc.
    For guards, other SS men at the camp, kapos, privileged prisoners, etc.

    "I've spoken negatively of Israel on this site for years and never been warned or banned for it" - Yes, sure you have.
    Don't see why you need to requote this given you've quoted it in the initial section already, but yes, I have. I'm (more or less) a BDS supporter who fully regards apartheid, inherently racist, and settler colonialist as apt descriptions of Israel as a state/society. I'm ideally a one-stater who supports dissolving Israel into a single united republic across all of former Mandatory Palestine. I've not exactly hid any of these opinions. Are you of the belief that these are pro-Israel stances?
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    (Original post by calsmith12)
    Rigggght, so I'm assuming every other country in the Middle East treats their citizens in mud hut hospitals with snake blood and dried camel dung?

    According to the World Health Organisation, Israel is ranked as having the 28th best healthcare system in the world. Saudi Arabia is ranked 26th, UAE is ranked 27th.

    Israeli's also cover their bodies, or does everyone walk around butt naked? The dress culture in the UAE and Israel are similar in modesty, so why does Israel have such a disproportionate amount of skin cancer in its population?

    Your arguments are frankly absurd and make absolutely no sense.
    http://nordic.businessinsider.com/th...ystems-2017-1/

    Israel Number 9 in the world
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    (Original post by calsmith12)

    "The death toll doesn't mean that the IDF killed Palestinian innocents. There are a number of factors: suicide bombings; being silenced because they attacked Israelis first; being martyrs; civilians being close to Hamas or Fatah's location since they're the target for the IDF"

    - Do you have any evidence that those factors play a substantial part in the Palestinian death toll?

    ..
    Even if it does (as an Israeli I can say, it does) Israeli Army (politicians) reaction is far from being proportional. In one case there was a guy who run away from his family and joined a cult and went to harm Israelis, he killed one and injured two, he was killed by the Israeli forces (either the police or the army), his family has no contact with him for a long time and never approved such an action, but what did Israeli government do?! They ****ing destroyed the house of that family!!! Not the cults headquarters but the poor family's house.....
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    (Original post by Kathy89)
    Actually the reason is very simple. Israeli use much more sun-cream which causes the caner and not the UV rays from the sun... Simple conclusion from such statistics.
    Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?
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    (Original post by looloo2134)
    http://nordic.businessinsider.com/th...ystems-2017-1/

    Israel Number 9 in the world
    I'm pretty sure the World Health Organisation is more reliable than business insider.
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    (Original post by calsmith12)
    I'm pretty sure the World Health Organisation is more reliable than business insider.
    no, but the other explanations were not better.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    Again, wasn't the question. "Refuted" and "discredited" are different. If it's so irrefutable, then why does it remain so marginal and irrelevant in serious history even in countries where it is not banned?



    Yawn, this was all played out in the Irving-Lipstadt trial years ago.

    Also, has the fact that lice take more cyanide to kill than humans not sunk in yet?



    No, they weren't. Where's this claim coming from?



    Who's this according to, Leuchter? Citation heavily needed.



    Which they didn't.



    For guards, other SS men at the camp, kapos, privileged prisoners, etc.



    Don't see why you need to requote this given you've quoted it in the initial section already, but yes, I have. I'm (more or less) a BDS supporter who fully regards apartheid, inherently racist, and settler colonialist as apt descriptions of Israel as a state/society. I'm ideally a one-stater who supports dissolving Israel into a single united republic across all of former Mandatory Palestine. I've not exactly hid any of these opinions. Are you of the belief that these are pro-Israel stances?
    "Again, wasn't the question. "Refuted" and "discredited" are different. If it's so irrefutable, then why does it remain so marginal and irrelevant in serious history even in countries where it is not banned?"
    Firstly, I think you're just clutching at straws now. The terms 'refute' and 'discredit' are near identical. You asked why it remains so marginal in 'serious history', whatever that is. Well, simply put, because of the heavy bias towards Israel prevalent in Western nations and the fact that the victors write history. Let me give you an example, British textbooks never once mention Churchills genocide of 2-4 million Indians yet they mention Hitlers supposed genocide of 6 million Jews wherever possible. Why? To indoctrinate us from a young age that specifically Jews deserve our eternal sympathy and thus sympathise with the idea of Israel.

    "Yawn, this was all played out in the Irving-Lipstadt trial years ago"
    Really? I wasn't present for the trial, care to enlighten me as to how they refuted these claims regarding the tests taken at Auschwitz?


    "Also, has the fact that lice take more cyanide to kill than humans not sunk in yet?"
    ... Germar Rudolf has already debunked this absurd argument (http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html)

    "No, they weren't. Where's this claim coming from?"
    Ok, I got this slightly wrong. The assertion is that Jews were tattoos on arrival to Auschwitz for identification. If the Nazis planned on wiping out the Jews, why would they waste valuable resources on tattooing each prisoner? It makes no sense.


    "Who's this according to, Leuchter? Citation heavily needed."
    Yes, this is from the Leuchter report. There was little to no prussian blue staning in the Auschwitz gas chambers compared to Majdanek. This makes no sense since only 80,000 were gassed in Majdanek, compared to the 1,000,000+ supposedly gassed in Auschwitz.

    "Which they didn't"
    The entire purpose of a death camp is death. The Nazis would have obviously killed all prisoners after the war had ended. The only reason they were kept alive was to provide labour support, after the war had ended, the most logical thing would be to kill them to suppress the truth.

    "For guards, other SS men at the camp, kapos, privileged prisoners, etc."
    Is that an assumption or fact?

    "Don't see why you need to requote this given you've quoted it in the initial section already, but yes, I have. I'm (more or less) a BDS supporter who fully regards apartheid, inherently racist, and settler colonialist as apt descriptions of Israel as a state/society. I'm ideally a one-stater who supports dissolving Israel into a single united republic across all of former Mandatory Palestine. I've not exactly hid any of these opinions. Are you of the belief that these are pro-Israel stances?"
    I do believe you are pro-Israel and hiding your bias by pretending to support a dissolved state of Israel.
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    (Original post by looloo2134)
    Iran is not Middle East it Persia it second biggest religion is Zoroastrians it also has a high level of education. However Muslims convent to Christianity is illegal and can be in prison or killed. Christians and Jews can convent Islam
    1) Iran is in Asia and the Middle East
    2) Iran's second biggest (and fastest growing) religion is Christianity not Zoroastrianism (but Judaism Islam and Christianity are officially recognised/protected religions and have Parliamentary representation)
    3) You are correct that conversion from Islam to another religion is a crime, but unless you go out and propagate your new religion you probably will not suffer any consequences
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    No nation or country is above criticism, plain and simple, nor should any be. I would only suggest however, that in comparing the crimes, killings, murders, deaths, suffering in Syria, Palestine, Iraq, among the Rohingya, in Libya, in Yemen, or wherever the case may be that there is NO NEED to engage in which crime or pain is greater, as if to somehow have to compare atrocities to atrocities...the point of The Holocaust is NEVER to allow such a thing to ever happen to anyone at anytime again-and when similar crimes, whether in methodology, systemic injustice or even if nearing some of the scale of atrocities committed in the past-the point is not to say one harm is greater or less than the other...the point is that its wrong, no matter who the perpetrator is or who the victim is, and to recognize the signs that were missed or warning that were missed in the past to prevent events from escalating further.

    Wrong is wrong. evil is evil, and I think that is a more prudent course than "comparing"which inevitably, whether intentionally or not-actually serves to say "oh, they didn't have it so bad back then compared to now." That is the wrong approach on a multitude of fronts, and its highly insensitive-it undermines ones argument(I do not mean to say such is your intention, to be insensitive, I'm only suggesting not to compare harm to harm in terms of minimizing or saying "oh, this is nothing in the past compared to now". I imagine The Tutsi's of Rwanda, if asked to compare what they endured to the Rohingya, I suppose someone could say "oh, well, you know-they didn't have it as bad as us-millions of us were hacked to death over the course of some months of time." That is a perilously, slippery slope, that kind of mindset is fueling Holocaust denials and attempts at minimization by people who could care less about Jews, Rohingya or other Muslims, or other ethnic minorities suffering-you would find some of them trying to make that argument that what is today is worse than back then. Such an argument is flawed, not-constructive to a meaningful discourse, etc. There is nothing wrong with comparing similar machinations, attempts and actual acts of genocide in terms of methods, plans, scope, sclae of operations, propaganda which fueled such-etc. to prevent escalation, protect people, prosecute offenders, raise awareness, etc. But we should be VERY careful about saying this harm is greater than that...lets instead of just work to fight injustice using past examples as lessons, and as precedent for action.

    (Original post by miss_ambitious)
    If people do speak out, we'd be labelled "anti-semitic,anti-zionists" etc. So what is the truth about the Middle East and Israel? Why do the UK and US have such respect to a country that tears apart others? I really don't mean to be disrespectful but PLEASE READ THIS! http://www.rense.com/general73/sunto.htm The Jewish woman who wrote this uses the Holocaust as a victim card. We all know the Holocaust was tragic and inhumane, however worse things happen to Syria, Palestine and the Rohingya Muslims! Do we see them demanding things? They believe they are the "Chosen people". Of course what can i say about that? It isn't my religion I'm a Christian.
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    (Original post by Kathy89)
    Even if it does (as an Israeli I can say, it does) Israeli Army (politicians) reaction is far from being proportional. In one case there was a guy who run away from his family and joined a cult and went to harm Israelis, he killed one and injured two, he was killed by the Israeli forces (either the police or the army), his family has no contact with him for a long time and never approved such an action, but what did Israeli government do?! They ****ing destroyed the house of that family!!! Not the cults headquarters but the poor family's house.....
    I even don't ask you for link - useless. Surely the same fantasy as "the fact" that Jewish schools teach "to hate and fear Arabs" and "deport or kill all Arabs".
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    (Original post by admonit)
    I even don't ask you for link - useless. Surely the same fantasy as "the fact" that Jewish schools teach "to hate and fear Arabs" and "deport or kill all Arabs".
    I never claimed that all does or even that the ministry of education approve it, same as not all Arab schools teach to hate Jews or Israel.
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    (Original post by calsmith12)
    - There is videographic proof that shows Israeli forces using the skunk cannon against Palestinian homes, which forces them to put up with a putrid smell for months or become homeless (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5OwN1e-wk).
    Watched the video. You can clearly see a bunch of Palestinians holding weapons in the first part. The rest of the video parts are just short moments without seeing the whole story. I don't see how your point is valid.

    No, generally, it's the Israelis who are violent against Palestinians to the point of putting resources towards inventing new ways of making their lives as difficult as possible. Why would the IDF do such a thing, you ask? Because they're savages that take pleasure in human misery.
    I disagree. They're not violent in any sort. Sometimes the violence gets worse and they have no choice but to control them forcefully. You can believe what you want but that's the truth. However, Israelis might do the violence towards them with intention, but that doesn't make them any worse compared to Palestinians being taught to hate Jews or wipe out Israelis out of existence.

    I don't think you should say such things about the IDF if you don't know about them or the whole situation.


    - Do you have any evidence that those factors play a substantial part in the Palestinian death toll?
    There are many evidences on twitter, including Facebook or other social media, news reports, and blogs. Usually they are from governmental and non-governmental sectors, politicians, important individuals, arab or non-arab Israelis, etc. These factors I read from a lot of sources, I can't remember which ones.

    I'm pretty surprised you don't know anything about Hamas, Fatah, and the Palestinian government oppressing Palestine.


    - Oral suction circumcision is a very big part of Jewish culture, it's not just limited to rural orthodox communities.
    If what other people said in this thread is correct, then I guess your circumcision part is a misunderstanding.


    - So, you ask me for evidence only to discredit every source I provided? I give up...
    Not all of your sources are discredited. I think they miss out the true story about it. The Wikipedia one is pretty shocking tbh, I don't believe it, also it's sometimes unreliable.


    Basically, you're just pretty misunderstood.
 
 
 
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