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Tories demand list of Brexit teachers... Watch

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    Chancellor Chris Patton, of Oxford, calls the letter "... an extraordinary example of outrageous and foolish behaviour, offensive and idiotic Leninism.".
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Chancellor Chris Patton, of Oxford, calls the letter "... an extraordinary example of outrageous and foolish behaviour, offensive and idiotic Leninism.".
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live
    I think the comments of the PM's vicar on earth are more important:

    "Chris Heaton-Harris wrote to universities in his capacity as an MP, not as a representative of the government,” the prime minister’s spokesman said. “I think what the prime minister has always been very clear on is her respect for the freedom and independence of universities and the role they play in creating open and stimulating debate.”

    Don't get too attached to the ministerial car, Chris.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I think the comments of the PM's vicar on earth are more important:

    "Chris Heaton-Harris wrote to universities in his capacity as an MP, not as a representative of the government,” the prime minister’s spokesman said. “I think what the prime minister has always been very clear on is her respect for the freedom and independence of universities and the role they play in creating open and stimulating debate.”

    Don't get too attached to the ministerial car, Chris.
    She doesn't dare sack a Brexiteer, hence his disgraceful behaviour.

    It was memorably sickening listening to Andrea Leadsom trying to defend it on Radio 4 news today - there's a real nasty party streak running through these people and a sort of hard boiled indifference to centuries of progress in Britain as a mature civilisation. The authoritarianism and deviousness that infect the Brexit side can't possibly be anything to do with genuinely held moral politics - they can only derive from the activities of special interests and the corrupt who support them.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    She doesn't dare sack a Brexiteer, hence his disgraceful behaviour.
    .

    He's unimportant and has shown himself lacking in political nouse. He is just the sort who can and will be sacked in the proposed reshuffle.



    It was memorably sickening listening to Andrea Leadsom trying to defend it on Radio 4 news today - there's a real nasty party streak running through these people and a sort of hard boiled indifference to centuries of progress in Britain as a mature civilisation. The authoritarianism and deviousness that infect the Brexit side can't possibly be anything to do with genuinely held moral politics - they can only derive from the activities of special interests and the corrupt who support them
    She is almost certainly unsackable, but Theresa May may be setting her up to be the Brexit fall guy. Somebody has to bear the Brexiteers' wrath for failing to get the withdrawal bill through the Commons and she has a talent for losing friends and influencing people against her.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Corporate bankers love socialism when it comes to bailing out their bad gambles with massive quantities of taxpayer cash.
    Or corporates fighting for minimum wage and more regulations to drive out small business competitors...
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Amazon / Uber / Deliveroo, etc. He meant you.
    Amazon has measurably improved my life and presumably countless others. Same with the others presumably (no idea about delive roo...)
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It's them

    http://www.stormguard.co.uk/about-us/

    I know they had enough money to pay us more as in the interview a manager complained he couldn't get the owner to move to bigger building. They had enough profits that they could have expanded. But not pay their wage slave workers more than min wage. I got 6 months of authentic proletarian experience. :yy:

    "We have responded to the challenges of 21st Century business in the UK by investment in technology, management systems and people, all of which is required to succeed whilst maintaining our belief in the traditional values of integrity, trust and respect for others"

    :yucky::yuck:

    They don't respect their workers at all.
    How were you not ‘respected’?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Amazon has measurably improved my life and presumably countless others. Same with the others presumably (no idea about delive roo...)
    Cotton transformed the lives of millions in the 18th century. Most of all, the slaves forced to pick it.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Cotton transformed the lives of millions in the 18th century. Most of all, the slaves forced to pick it.
    Is amazon breaching slavery laws?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Is amazon breaching slavery laws?
    Lots of global corporations are, somewhere in their supply chains.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Lots of global corporations are, somewhere in their supply chains.
    Sure, but is Amazon?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Amazon has measurably improved my life and presumably countless others. Same with the others presumably (no idea about delive roo...)
    You were just arguing against 'corporatism' and now you're defending it. You can't call it capitalism when you like it and corporatism when you don't. That's like those who say Stalin's Russia 'wasn't real Communism'.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    But big corporations dominating governments isn't anything to do with capitalism is it? Just like the Soviet Union and Mao's China were nothing to do with communism... There is no distinction between capitalism and corporatism in practice. They are one and the same.
    Too an extent yeah. But unlike communism, free capitalism can and does exist. Oligarchy is inevitable.

    Those on the right just absolutely love to go on about all these 'regulations' an 'red tape' and how cutting them will be the best thing ever. Despite the hyperbolic stories in the press, the majority of regulations are necessary. Don't be like the Brexiteers who were claiming that EU regulations on safe lifts were hurting small businesses.
    Some regulation is great. Some is awful and counterproductive. Doesn’t make me a rabid Thatcherite,


    Coporations dont fight for a minimum wage either and a huge number would love to get rid of it. Think about how much money they could save if they could get away with paying their workers half.
    Sure they could, but they can’t. But they can lobby to have higher minimum wages to price out smaller buisness.

    http://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-lab...e-minimum-wage


    I know some on the right try and convince themselves that paying workers less is actually kinder to them than paying them a higher amount though. That's despite all the research conducted showing no link between minimum wage rises and unemployment.
    In the UK that’s certainly the case. I’d like to see that survey in the third world.


    Is that how low you want the bar set? So anything north of slavery is great? They pay their workers pittance, grant them hardly any employment rights and put them under tremendous pressure. And because people are desperate for work, they have little other choice to take such jobs.

    It always amazes me how people try and resist attempts to guarantee workers much stronger worker protections and better pay. They manage it in Scandanavia and Germany, which value trade unions and collective bargaining agreements. Why can't we?
    What is great?

    $3 an hour might be worth **** to you but to someone else it might be the best money they’ve ever earned.

    If they didn’t think they’d be better off taking the job they wouldn’t take it.

    It is great. My step dad who is Vietnamese actually worked at a sweatshop when he was five and said that before that his family were starving in the street but when the factories came they all had food and yes it was **** but they were grateful. The alternative is no sweatshop and they die in the street. Welcome to the real world ...
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    You were just arguing against 'corporatism' and now you're defending it. You can't call it capitalism when you like it and corporatism when you don't. That's like those who say Stalin's Russia 'wasn't real Communism'.
    How am I?

    I’ve snswered the capitalism/ corporatist point above.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Too an extent yeah. But unlike communism, free capitalism can and does exist. Oligarchy is inevitable.



    Some regulation is great. Some is awful and counterproductive. Doesn’t make me a rabid Thatcherite,




    Sure they could, but they can’t. But they can lobby to have higher minimum wages to price out smaller buisness.

    http://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-lab...e-minimum-wage




    In the UK that’s certainly the case. I’d like to see that survey in the third world.




    What is great?

    $3 an hour might be worth **** to you but to someone else it might be the best money they’ve ever earned.

    If they didn’t think they’d be better off taking the job they wouldn’t take it.

    It is great. My step dad who is Vietnamese actually worked at a sweatshop when he was five and said that before that his family were starving in the street but when the factories came they all had food and yes it was **** but they were grateful. The alternative is no sweatshop and they die in the street. Welcome to the real world ...
    Free market capitalism does not exist. In practice it becomes corporatism. Always. This whole capitalism/corporatism distinction is a nonsense justification by the right to try and deal with criticisms of capitalism.

    No, I absolutely do not accept that.

    In China, work places have had nets installed on the outside of the building because people were throwing themselves out the window. They were working 80+ hour in weeks in dreadful conditions for the equivalent of a few pounds a week. Then you consider about how the lack of health and safety regulations means it's not uncommon for there to be fires and accidents at work, which just would not happen here. Then we have the fact that unions are banned...

    And people go 'look how wonderful that is because the alternative is even worse'.

    What a horribly low bar. How anti-aspirational.

    You treat people like human beings. Pay them a wage they can live on, rather than paying them a fiver for 80 hours a week and demanding they be grateful for it.
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    Who’s going to pay them?

    The reality is it’s us.


    When I was on minimum wage I couldn’t afford to pay ssy More than ten pound for a t shirt. But I’d pay eight. That means that I get a t shirt and some kid gets a wage. We’re both winners. Or alternatively I have to go without and the kid doesn’t get jack.

    You know fifty years ago South Korea was on minimum wage of $2 now it’s on the same level as us- why? Because it was allowed to compete. You insist they be paid fairly, in practise they won’t be paid at all and they’ll stay a wretched hell hole forever. That’s anti aspirational
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F0mne8bAdiY
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    Gotta laugh at the lame attempts to disparage the Tories on the basis they want to look into University activity. Shame on the detractors.

    It's well known that University professors/lecturers have a HUGE bias towards the EU and HAVE been pushing that bias in their teaching (indoctrination) of students. These professors get lucrative grants from the EU. They aren't going to oppose it are they ?!!

    "The Jean Monnet programme, named after one of the founding fathers of the EU, is designed to promote teaching on and research into European integration. It involves more than 1,700 academics and more than a quarter of a million students every year.

    More than 800 universities in 78 countries offer Jean Monnet modules about the EU, according to the European Commission.

    To apply for a Jean Monnet chair, worth up to €50,000 (£38,000) over three years, professors agree to teach a minimum of 90 hours on EU-related subjects over this period and to carry out research or organise events."



    Brexit teen says education system BIASED towards EU as she talks of backlash at university

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/736...ctivism-brexit

    "When pressed by the Ukip leader on whether she was recieving a biased education, she said: "Definitely, we’re getting a one-sided education.

    "We are told that one side is a good side and to vote Brexit is to be one the bad side.

    "Even on social media, there was an outpouring of criticism that if you voted Brexit you’re wrong and you’ve damaged the country."

    The teenager's remarks come as British universities revealed plans to open up several campuses inside the European Union. "



    Tories are completely right to ask for University details and to look into the blatant EU indoctrination of students.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Who’s going to pay them?

    The reality is it’s us.


    When I was on minimum wage I couldn’t afford to pay ssy More than ten pound for a t shirt. But I’d pay eight. That means that I get a t shirt and some kid gets a wage. We’re both winners. Or alternatively I have to go without and the kid doesn’t get jack.

    You know fifty years ago South Korea was on minimum wage of $2 now it’s on the same level as us- why? Because it was allowed to compete. You insist they be paid fairly, in practise they won’t be paid at all and they’ll stay a wretched hell hole forever. That’s anti aspirational
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F0mne8bAdiY
    Again, you posit the idea that 'this is the only option' as if it were unsustainable or unthinkable to treat workers well.

    But that's what capitalism does. 'Be happy with your cheap IPhone and ignore the fact someone is only being paid two pence an hour to make it'. In order to not feel bad, the capitalists tell us that someone being paid a pound for 80 hours a week is great because the alternative is starvation.

    Why can't we demand that people pay slightly more for products so that those who produce them can be given something like acceptable working conditions. A country which has to put nets on buildings because people have been throwing themselves out of windows, hardly seems to be brilliant progress.

    We've allowed the right wing to set the story that the third world countries have only developed because of freemarket capitalism, without actually ever challenging this claim. Read Ha Joon Chang,who rather convincingly makes a case against it, and how free market policies have held back poorer countries and those which have adopted a more Keynsian approach, have fared rather better.

    South Korea's growth was largely due to government investment and protectionism in the early stages allowing their industries to grow.
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    In our free, democratic society, are we not at liberty to question the teaching at our academic institutions? And if we are not, then isn't that more likely to be neo-fascist than simply asking a university to share information on what they're teaching and who is teaching it?
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Again, you posit the idea that 'this is the only option' as if it were unsustainable or unthinkable to treat workers well.
    Not really, there’s always a choice- but very rarely is it a clear one.

    But that's what capitalism does. 'Be happy with your cheap IPhone and ignore the fact someone is only being paid two pence an hour to make it'. In order to not feel bad, the capitalists tell us that someone being paid a pound for 80 hours a week is great because the alternative is starvation.
    It’s preferable surely?

    Being paid minimum wage or even £10 an hour isn’t great but it’s s significant improvement upon what we’d have otherwise.

    Ok so assume apple wanted double the wages of its poorest workers- fine. Now prices would almost certainly rise and demand would fall and therefore there’d be job losses and an increase in net poverty. Granted some workers may get a pay rise but some would be laid off and British consumers would overall be worse off and Apple products would be the preserve of the better off- so that young poor art students (co incidentally like my step dad) do t have access to them and therefore can’t compete in the market place.



    We've allowed the right wing to set the story that the third world countries have only developed because of freemarket capitalism, without actually ever challenging this claim. Read Ha Joon Chang,who rather convincingly makes a case against it, and how free market policies have held back poorer countries and those which have adopted a more Keynsian approach, have fared rather better.

    South Korea's growth was largely due to government investment and protectionism in the early stages allowing their industries to grow.
    Generally addressed by thus:

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.a...i%3fformat=amp
 
 
 
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