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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    I know Bear. I was imagining him approaching my quota-managed Oxbridge in a flight of post-truthian fancy. In his favour would be some promising poetry and a criminal record for deer poaching, plus a Dad in financial trouble. Against would be an A-list grammar and a tendency to accept cash to put his name on other people's work.
    :hmmmm2:.... what about the gloves ?
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    (Original post by the bear)
    :hmmmm2:.... what about the gloves ?
    I think I might have made a mistake getting into the authorship question, even as a joke. :afraid:
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    (Original post by the bear)
    but Shakey did not go to yoony tho' ?

    :dontknow:
    But if he had gone to The King's School in Canterbury he might have ended up at Corpus Cantab like his contemporary. Marlowe.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    But if he had gone to The King's School in Canterbury he might have ended up at Corpus Cantab like his contemporary. Marlowe.
    Corpus Punctorum :teehee:
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    Quotas not needed. Working class kids do get offers from Cambridge, I'm one of them, just less of us apply.
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    (Original post by AllonsEnfants!)

    How do you measure the ability of a student in a sink school in Hull? You measure it like every other applicant according to their proven academic performance to date and performance in academic assessment tests.
    That is only valid if candidates have not been trained to the test.

    Performing dogs may sit up and beg on a prompt or salivate with food production (Pavlov), in exam circumstances equating to type of question equals stock trained response that has been drilled, that is not to say they are smarter than a dog that can, partly by intuition, herd sheep, gets the nuance when to chase when to lie etc.

    The fact is the system is weak, partly I suspect because the public schools of the UK etc have geared themselves more to exam success (parents shelling out a lot of money now want results) , fewer Tim Nice But Dim's,and have raised their games.

    In 1944 my father , the son of a soldier who started as a private in 1908 and worked his way up in the army, applied and was accepted to Oxford, (Queens), he came out of the Royal High, Edinburgh (fee paying) because he had won a bursary there out of an Edinburgh state primary.

    Another who took a similar route from the same primary year was the now Lord Mackay of Clashfern , former Lord Chancellor, but back then James Mackay, son of a railway signalman, he got a bursary to George Heriots, albeit he did Edinburgh then Cambridge whereas my father did Oxford then Edinburgh.

    At Oxford my father's best friend , who remained so for the rest of their lives, was a boy whose father had died, he had left school post A levels and apprenticed, to a law firm but then also got a bursary to Oxford (Lincoln) during the war, my fathers girlfriend at Oxford came from a Welsh mining village, again a non affluent family background.

    Now it seems to me that somewhere along the line something has gone wrong, back in the 1940s lots of students at Oxford and Cambridge came from less affluent backgrounds, so maybe the secret is to go back in time and establish what made that era more egalitarian?

    Maybe it was that working class families valued education more, appreciated it was the best route, maybe the only route, to real financial stability, parents possibly not having received a lengthy education (My grandparents left school at 14) placed a far higher value on it for their children.

    Maybe it was the self improvement ethos out of the Labour party of the period that instilled a respect for education far more widely in society, that made learning and books available in the evenings and at weekends, for people to seek self improvement.

    Oxford and Cambridge cannot change society, they can merely work within its structures, so maybe the real secret is to change how parents value education.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    Corpus Punctorum :teehee:
    Wasn't that St Sebastian?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Wasn't that St Sebastian?
    No, he was at Loughborough.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    No, he was at Loughborough.
    For the archery?
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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    Quotas not needed. Working class kids do get offers from Cambridge, I'm one of them, just less of us apply.
    *cough* fewer
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    Quotas would cause candidates that will be out of their depth to be admitted. I don't see who that would help.
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    (Original post by RogerOxon)
    *cough* fewer
    I bet you'd like to bring back grammar schools, too...
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    (Original post by RogerOxon)
    *cough* fewer
    I'm Scouse. We have our own language.

    Isn't that right CheeseIsVeg?
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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    I'm Scouse. We have our own language.

    Isn't that right CheeseIsVeg?
    Can confirm sousish is another language not to be confused with proper English
    :albertein:
    :stein:
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    (Original post by 04MR17)
    I'm Scouse. We have our own language.
    I once saw an advert in a job centre window in Liverpool asking for a secretary to write "lerrers and documents".
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    (Original post by RogerOxon)
    I once saw an advert in a job centre window in Liverpool asking for a secretary to write "lerrers and documents".
    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by DFranklin)
    I bet you'd like to bring back grammar schools, too...
    I went to a comprehensive. I hated English at school, which was only surpassed by my disdain for English Literature. However, my father was a lecturer in English Language and Linguistic, so correct English is somewhat ingrained in me. Sorry
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    No, he was at Loughborough.
    That

    I think you'll find it was 'Arrogate Poly.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    For the archery?
    No. For the 800 metres.

    He ultimately triumphed over evil. (Evil came third in the 1500 metres).
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    (Original post by DJKL)
    That is only valid if candidates have not been trained to the test.

    Performing dogs may sit up and beg on a prompt or salivate with food production (Pavlov), in exam circumstances equating to type of question equals stock trained response that has been drilled, that is not to say they are smarter than a dog that can, partly by intuition, herd sheep, gets the nuance when to chase when to lie etc.

    The fact is the system is weak, partly I suspect because the public schools of the UK etc have geared themselves more to exam success (parents shelling out a lot of money now want results) , fewer Tim Nice But Dim's,and have raised their games.

    In 1944 my father , the son of a soldier who started as a private in 1908 and worked his way up in the army, applied and was accepted to Oxford, (Queens), he came out of the Royal High, Edinburgh (fee paying) because he had won a bursary there out of an Edinburgh state primary.

    Another who took a similar route from the same primary year was the now Lord Mackay of Clashfern , former Lord Chancellor, but back then James Mackay, son of a railway signalman, he got a bursary to George Heriots, albeit he did Edinburgh then Cambridge whereas my father did Oxford then Edinburgh.

    At Oxford my father's best friend , who remained so for the rest of their lives, was a boy whose father had died, he had left school post A levels and apprenticed, to a law firm but then also got a bursary to Oxford (Lincoln) during the war, my fathers girlfriend at Oxford came from a Welsh mining village, again a non affluent family background.

    Now it seems to me that somewhere along the line something has gone wrong, back in the 1940s lots of students at Oxford and Cambridge came from less affluent backgrounds, so maybe the secret is to go back in time and establish what made that era more egalitarian?

    Maybe it was that working class families valued education more, appreciated it was the best route, maybe the only route, to real financial stability, parents possibly not having received a lengthy education (My grandparents left school at 14) placed a far higher value on it for their children.

    Maybe it was the self improvement ethos out of the Labour party of the period that instilled a respect for education far more widely in society, that made learning and books available in the evenings and at weekends, for people to seek self improvement.

    Oxford and Cambridge cannot change society, they can merely work within its structures, so maybe the real secret is to change how parents value education.
    Back then and up to 1980’s, only about 20% of school kids proceeded to receive higher education (including polytechnics and other types of higher education post-schools) . Number of students who went to university is an even smaller portion among those 20%. ( if I remember correctly, it was something like 5% of all school children)
    Now more than 40% goes to university. Though you can’t simply compare those differences between those periods as all politeques were upgraded to universities in mid-80’s by then PM John Major, still the fact remains the same that a much larger proportion of students proceed to universities than ever been, and, more importantly and on the contrary to your suggestion, a bigger improvement of proportion of students going to universities has been seen among students from less-privileged backgrounds.
    So they’ve been doing something right, actually, though the improvement may not seem fast enough for some people.

    Another thing that should not be forgotten is who is to pay for educating university students. In the olden days, the consecutive governments could afford to wholly support the uni students because they were so few of them and with the demography which is completely different from now = much bigger population of working/tax-paying people then vs ever-increasing population of OAPs with more increased needs of medical/social cares.
    Though larger proportion of people go to universities these days than before, still about 60% of population do not. And they’re often with lower-income with much more strained on their budget. Is it fair to burden tax payers even more to pay for the privilege and benefits you are more likely to gain directly if you have a university degree? Just a small rise of tax rate hurt those people on lower income much more than people of higher income.

    Probably some people with very leftist ideology may say ‘tax the rich people more!’, and that’s exactly what Labour Government did in 1970’s. And we all know what happened.....
    I know how horrendously bad things were in Britain because of that as I was old enough then already to understand what’s happening in the world. And in many ways we are still paying for the damage of those dark ages even now, like lack/deterioration of arcane infrastructure, etc.
    We really do not want to repeat that, ever.
 
 
 
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