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    (Original post by vincrows)
    Back then and up to 1980’s, only about 20% of school kids proceeded to receive higher education (including polytechnics and other types of higher education post-schools) . Number of students who went to university is an even smaller portion among those 20%. ( if I remember correctly, it was something like 5% of all school children)
    Now more than 40% goes to university. Though you can’t simply compare those differences between those periods as all politeques were upgraded to universities in mid-80’s by then PM John Major, still the fact remains the same that a much larger proportion of students proceed to universities than ever been, and, more importantly and on the contrary to your suggestion, a bigger improvement of proportion of students going to universities has been seen among students from less-privileged backgrounds.
    So they’ve been doing something right, actually, though the improvement may not seem fast enough for some people.

    Another thing that should not be forgotten is who is to pay for educating university students. In the olden days, the consecutive governments could afford to wholly support the uni students because they were so few of them and with the demography which is completely different from now = much bigger population of working/tax-paying people then vs ever-increasing population of OAPs with more increased needs of medical/social cares.
    Though larger proportion of people go to universities these days than before, still about 60% of population do not. And they’re often with lower-income with much more strained on their budget. Is it fair to burden tax payers even more to pay for the privilege and benefits you are more likely to gain directly if you have a university degree? Just a small rise of tax rate hurt those people on lower income much more than people of higher income.

    Probably some people with very leftist ideology may say ‘tax the rich people more!’, and that’s exactly what Labour Government did in 1970’s. And we all know what happened.....
    I know how horrendously bad things were in Britain because of that as I was old enough then already to understand what’s happening in the world. And in many ways we are still paying for the damage of those dark ages even now, like lack/deterioration of arcane infrastructure, etc.
    We really do not want to repeat that, ever.
    You don't engage with DJKL 's points. The size of the Oxbridge cohort has remained unchanged since the 1970s. Other universities have expanded. They have not. Whilst far more poorer people go to university today, that is not true of Oxbridge.

    Whilst almost certainly his father has more chance of getting to university today; his chances of ending up at Oxford are much smaller.
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    (Original post by the bear)
    there is no reason why Oxford & Cambridge should not open a few new colleges exclusively for students from the lowest attaining backgrounds. these could be sponsored by football clubs or clothing brands...
    & the masters could be retired managers etc.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/...trip=all&w=960
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    I’m sorry, but Universities like Oxford should be able to choose students themselves...I honestly can’t see them not wanting to choose the best students as it’s in their interest...however, the issue of equal education opportunities across classes is what could be addressed!
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    (Original post by artful_lounger)
    Without continuing to go off-topic, your comments on other threads make it very clear you have no interest in anything other than continuing the degradation of marginalised groups by ignoring the fundamental race issues at hand and perpetuating the equally damaging and racist approach of "colour blindness" by pretending that you don't see race at all and thus it is not an issue.

    This is while using Western white standards as the metric to compare others and holding and furthering the view that deviation from this as being bad and the fault of those failing to live up to these standards - despite the fact that necessarily impossible to do so due to the entrenched racial dynamics of the country (and many others, albeit with different characteristics). Quotas are not bad because "sad little white child" can't get in because of them, quotas are bad because it doesn't do anything to help marginalised groups and merely sweeps the problem under the table.

    Also if it wasn't clear, white people are not a marginalised group by any reason except being a member of another marginalised group - and even then these frequently flagrantly engage in casual racism, be it white women playing into the "men of colour as sexual aggressors", white gay men saying that it's "just a preference" to completely refuse to date black men and not acknowledge the damaging white Anglo-European beauty standards which are at best the cause of this and that these need to be unlearned, white working class people acting as those immigrants of colour are the reason they can't get a job.

    For the record, I will abuse those who use their privileged position to abuse, or further the abuse of, marginalised people until my dying breath. You don't want that? Stop being a bigot, and I'll happily save my breath.
    Gay men, straight men, gay women and straight women, and all others can say they will/won’t date any person for any reason. Are you going to force me to date a black woman?
    For the record, my partner is Bengali. So before you accuse me of being a white supremacist, remember that. I just don’t find black women attractive.
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    (Original post by Dazza happy)
    I’m sorry, but Universities like Oxford should be able to choose students themselves...I honestly can’t see them not wanting to choose the best students as it’s in their interest...however, the issue of equal education opportunities across classes is what could be addressed!
    They choose the best students, but from a narrow selection and some of the time, that narrowness is either what they want, or the inevitable outcome of the system they help to maintain.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    They choose the best students, but from a narrow selection and some of the time, that narrowness is either what they want, or the inevitable outcome of the system they help to maintain.
    Yeah...but everyone has a chance to apply and then the Uni chooses who they think is best...It’s OXBRIDGE and they should be allowed to choose whoever they want!? By the way, I’m definitely not upper class or anything I just really don’t get why this is a problem - we should be working hard and striving to get into the best places rather than complaining about quotas. If you’re worthy, you’ll get there!
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    "1.5% of the offers made by Oxbridge were to black British students"

    ......Given that 5% of the population is black.....
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    (Original post by ElAshtonio)
    "1.5% of the offers made by Oxbridge were to black British students"

    ......Given that 5% of the population is black.....
    Exactly!
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    (Original post by ElAshtonio)
    ......Given that 5% of the population is black.....
    (Original post by Dazza happy)
    Exactly!
    3% according to the 2011 census. And offer rates vary depending on the specific courses. BB tend to be applying to the more competitive courses.

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    (Original post by Dazza happy)
    Yeah...but everyone has a chance to apply and then the Uni chooses who they think is best...It’s OXBRIDGE and they should be allowed to choose whoever they want!? By the way, I’m definitely not upper class or anything I just really don’t get why this is a problem - we should be working hard and striving to get into the best places rather than complaining about quotas. If you’re worthy, you’ll get there!
    The question is, are the restrictions to access such that no matter how hard they strive or how good they are, some students simply won't have the chance to apply?

    Or if not quite that drastic, at least, the encouragement to think they might have a chance sufficient to make it worth applying and that the culture they meet there, or think they will meet, won't be so hostile to their norms that they reject the notion before they even start.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    the culture they meet there, or think they will meet, won't be so hostile to their norms that they reject the notion before they even start.
    Are you serious? You are saying that we should be concerned that a gangster drug-dealer will be seriously disadvantaged if they do not apply to Oxford on the basis that their gang culture and dealing would not be tolerated, and that nobody should be put off for that reason. The same applies to extreme Moslem women who, you believe, should not be forced to move, unsegregated, in an environment in which non-family males also move.

    Regressive liberalism has gone too far when it complains that normal, safe British society should make such allowances.
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    (Original post by ElAshtonio)
    "1.5% of the offers made by Oxbridge were to black British students"

    ......Given that 5% of the population is black.....
    What percentage of the men’s 100m Olympic final are white?
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    (Original post by D3LLI5)
    What percentage of the men’s 100m Olympic final are white?
    Breaststroke or butterfly?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Are you serious? You are saying that we should be concerned that a gangster drug-dealer will be seriously disadvantaged if they do not apply to Oxford on the basis that their gang culture and dealing would not be tolerated, and that nobody should be put off for that reason. The same applies to extreme Moslem women who, you believe, should not be forced to move, unsegregated, in an environment in which non-family males also move.

    Regressive liberalism has gone too far when it complains that normal, safe British society should make such allowances.
    Nothing like arguing from extreme examples!

    I was thinking of scenarios where working class students at schools with little or no knowledge of, or past success at, Oxbridge entry, are profoundly disadvantaged in terms of access for particularly promising/bright students than the elite schools that send the bulk of students to Oxbridge year in and year out.

    I wasn't advocating that major cultural shifts would have to happen at Oxbridge to facilitate them, but efforts at extending outreach to such schools can only really be classed as a failure to date. Given that, the idea of establishing quotas for disadvantaged schools seems a promising one.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Nothing like arguing from extreme examples!

    I was thinking of scenarios where working class students at schools with little or no knowledge of, or past success at, Oxbridge entry, are profoundly disadvantaged in terms of access for particularly promising/bright students than the elite schools that send the bulk of students to Oxbridge year in and year out.

    I wasn't advocating that major cultural shifts would have to happen at Oxbridge to facilitate them, but efforts at extending outreach to such schools can only really be classed as a failure to date. Given that, the idea of establishing quotas for disadvantaged schools seems a promising one.
    Yes, very promising, if what you want to do is completely undermine, and further separate socially, the disadvantaged kids who made it in on merit. I don't know about anyone else but I don't think I could have coped with three years of everyone assuming I made it in other than by open competition, and I would have deeply resented being put in that situation.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    I don't think I could have coped with three years of everyone assuming I made it in other than by open competition,
    Quite!
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Yes, very promising, if what you want to do is completely undermine, and further separate socially, the disadvantaged kids who made it in on merit. I don't know about anyone else but I don't think I could have coped with three years of everyone assuming I made it in other than by open competition, and I would have deeply resented being put in that situation.
    This is the most common argument against quotas and I accept that some people might have ruffled feelings, not just from previous 'got their under their own steam' graduates, but also from people who got their 'under the quota' and therefore fear they are not good enough, etc.

    There are contrary arguments - for example, if it's clear that those of us who got there largely did because we attended certain schools, then there has to be a question mark over how much genuine nationally-calculated merit there was. Also, those who come in under quotas can at least be reasonably certain that the fact they would not have made it without the quota indicates that their merit would have been overlooked, a noxious situation and one best remedied by whatever means are appropriate.

    I am sure Mr Corbyn will be open to these arguments when he shortly becomes PM.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    if it's clear that those of us who got there largely did because we attended certain schools
    If. That is a big word. I think it far more likely that such people would have got there no matter what school they attended.
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    Yes, very promising, if what you want to do is completely undermine, and further separate socially, the disadvantaged kids who made it in on merit. I don't know about anyone else but I don't think I could have coped with three years of everyone assuming I made it in other than by open competition, and I would have deeply resented being put in that situation.
    I went to Oxford when there were at least 6 application systems running simultaneously. I did the fourth term entrance exam. Although those doing the 7th term exam sat the same papers they were marked to a more rigorous standard. That isn't surprising, the 7th term candidates had a year longer schooling on the material. There was no sense of resentment over this, nor over the fact that there were candidates who didn't sit the exam some of whom had (for the time) challenging A level offers of AAB or ABB and whilst others had EE offers.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I went to Oxford when there were at least 6 application systems running simultaneously. I did the fourth term entrance exam. Although those doing the 7th term exam sat the same papers they were marked to a more rigorous standard. That isn't surprising, the 7th term candidates had a year longer schooling on the material. There was no sense of resentment over this, nor over the fact that there were candidates who didn't sit the exam some of whom had (for the time) challenging A level offers of AAB or ABB and whilst others had EE offers.
    if you wanted a Scholarship or Exhibition you had to do the entrance papers ?
 
 
 
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