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American student contemplating possible study in the UK...

Hey, so I'm a new member and I had some questions regarding possibly studing in the UK for undergrad

This turned out to be somewhat long, so skim if you'd like. I'd appreciate any input, though =)

For background, I'm 16 a junior in the States (NY). I'd love to study in the UK for a change of pace. I've visited London and I love it there--the people, the atmosphere. I follow the Premier League out of necessity because one of my best guy friends is from England and basically forced it on me, haha, but I do love football. I also tend to be into british music. I'm interested in European art and history as well, so that'd be good.

Basically, I'd like to go to university in the UK but I'm hesitant because I am not definitively sure of what I want to study. I know I love history--especially European and 20th century American. But I also think I'd like sociology and art history. The problem is that in my high school I'll only be able to take sociology and art history courses senior year, which would be too late!
I'm also scared that the history APs I took in frosh and soph years won't have prepared me as well as your A-Levels and that I'd do completely horribly in an interview. Those interviews in general seem quite frightening, haha.
I know, though, that I'll want to concentrate in one of those three subjects, and I'll probably end up going to law school after that.
So unfortunately, because of my indecision I don't thinkt he UK undergrad idea is going to work out for me.
If anyone has advice on that or how to make it work, let me know!

So my next idea was to plan to study abroad in the UK for a year, and then go to grad school (which will probably be Law) in the UK after that.
I've been reading some of the threads here though, and it seems like people say that the US is better for grad than the UK!
....which would put a damper on my plan =(
also, would I be at a disadvantage going to law school in the UK after completing a degree like, say, history, in the US? Because I think that most students going into law in the UK actually study it as a subject during their undergrad, right?

ahhhh, so confusing! why can't they just all follow the same system and make this easy for us, eh?
:rolleyes:

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Reply 1

timeceremony

What schools have you been looking at?
If you chose Oxford you could be interviewed in New York, which is pretty convenient given your place of residence.

Oxford offers a great history course (modern or ancient), Cambridge offers art history.

Reply 2

Aula

You could consider somewhere like Durham where you could (I think) study History, Sociology and Art History under combined Arts/social sciences. You'd have to check, as I'm not certain that all three are available under that.

added benefit... you probably wouldn't be interviewed at Durham

I think you get quite a few people doing Law after having done a different undergrad degree, but I'm not certain about that one, and you'd be better asking in the Law forum :smile:

Reply 3

talespirit

In the UK, you don't go to a "law-school" like in the US, it is a law 3/4 years degree at undergrad level. There are different types of post-grad law degrees. Ones for those who graduated with an LLB (bachelors of law) and want to specialize and perhaps become a teacher, and ones for people who finished other things and just want to know general law (the first is not needed to become a lawyer, the second alone will not be good enough to become a lawyer). After a law degree, people usually take a vocational course to become either a barrister or solicitor (like a JD in the US). And even with these you will not be able to become an attorney in the US, you need the JD for that.

If you want to do law as in general law knowledge, not becoming a barrister/solicitor, then it is okay. Many unis offer these kind of course, and aside from oxbridge and london unis, i've heard that Kent is quite good for it.

Reply 4

emmings

talespirit

Just to clarify, as you aren't entirely clear here:
I assume the first type of post-grad you're talking about is an LLM, which is like any normal masters, and you're right that it's not needed to become a lawyer.

The second type, I assume you're talking about the GDL/CPE (Graduate Diploma in Law). This is often known as the 'conversion course' and exists for graduates of other degree subjects to convert to law. It is enough to become a lawyer, though as you rightly say, an additional vocational year is needed to practice. Many people take the GDL followed by this vocational year at the same place, and there are many universities and independent law schools at which you can do it.

Reply 5

talespirit

emmings

Yes, sorry i wasn't clear, what you're saying is how it works, you probably know more than i do here, i didn't do much research into post grad law :P.

Reply 6

la fille danse

You'll only have to interview for Oxbridge, most likely.

Do you want to practise law in the UK or the US? That should be the deciding factor...

Reply 7

alamode09

timedceremony:
do you mean other American schools? or UK schools?

so If I were to complete a degree like history in the US, exactly what would I have to do for grad school in the UK to be able to practice law?
do you think it would be easier to do a degree like history in the UK and then law school in the US?
If you have a grad school law degree from the US, can you practice in the UK as well?
same from UK-->US

I honestly don't know where I'd want to practice. I think that I would know once I completed my study abroad. =/

also, I was wondering. say I applied to a UK school for history but realized during my senior year that I would rather study idk...art history. would it be easy to change subjects before I began university?

finally, I am also starting to think about Scotland--the only schools I really know of are Edinburgh (a friend goes there) and St. Andrews. Aren't the degrees there 4 yrs and also a bit broader?

thank you all!

Reply 8

shona

alamode09

If you have a grad school law degree from the US, can you practice in the UK as well?
same from UK-->US

If you have a law degree from England, you can't even practise in Scotland. Different system of law. Think about it - how could you advise on matters of American law, if you only knew English or Scottish law? And vice versa?

alamode09

finally, I am also starting to think about Scotland--the only schools I really know of are Edinburgh (a friend goes there) and St. Andrews. Aren't the degrees there 4 yrs and also a bit broader?

Scottish degrees are on the whole, one year longer than English degrees. So yes, a standard three year law degree in England would take you four years in Scotland.

Bear in mind what I said earlier - a law degree from Scotland qualifies you to work in Scottish law and a law degree from England qualifies you to work in English law. Not that you can actually do much after your original undergrad degree - you need to do a postgrad on top of that to actually practise law...

The most reputable unis in Scotland are probably Aberdeen, Edinburgh, St. Andrews and Glasgow. In no particular order. Edinburgh and Glasgow are probably most worth your while considering though, if it was the London lifestyle that appealled to you.

Reply 9

alamode09

haha that makes complete sense, i have no idea what I was thinking =P

hmmm. so if I wanted to do law, where I do postgrad would completely depend on where I want to practice, then.
so it wouldn't really matter at all where I did undergrad if I did history or something?

thanks for the Edinburgh/Glagsgow reccomendation, too!

Reply 10

shona

So, do you want to do law or history then? Simple question. :wink:

Reply 11

HJV

I didn't bother to read through the replies, but thought of some things you might want to consider:

-most unis here won't need you to come to an interview
-have you considered doing the IB for high school? That'd prepare you better for UK unis. It's quite common in the US, some 20 000 people do it every year.
-if you're still 16, you still have time to decide what you like and what subject you will want to apply for
-make sure you know how to fund your studies, as non-European Union students will be paying tuition fees of around £7000-20 000 (~$14 000-40 000), plus accommodation and food etc.
-you will not be taken to a postgraduate law course if you have an undergrad degree in history.
-there are joint honurs programmes available, where you can do eg. "history and sociology" etc.
-you won't be able to afford going to football matches, so don't be disappointed :smile:

Reply 12

alamode09

shona--haha, it does seem so simple, no?
I wish it really were though. =P

HJV:
-I've considered IB, but it's a new program at my high school and so they don't offer many options--only the real basic required courses. You only start in your junior year and I'd already completed 3 APs by then--which would've been a waste. The quality of IB courses at my school isn't very good either.
-even though I'm only 16, it's because my birthday is in October. I will have to apply to colleges next fall so I really only have a few months.
-yeah, I'm going to have to think about funding.
-so in the UK you can't get into postgrad law if you haven't taken undergrad law? because in the US you can.
-I'll look into joint-honors
-aww shucks =( hahaha

Reply 13

la fille danse

It's quite common in the US, some 20 000 people do it every year.

20,000?

So not very common at all, then.

Reply 14

timeceremony

no hero in her sky

20,000?

So not very common at all, then.

Worldwide, 75,000+ take the IB exams every session (May, November). It is in my opinion the most versatile and challenging programme available in the world.

Reply 15

emmings

alamode09

-so in the UK you can't get into postgrad law if you haven't taken undergrad law? because in the US you can.

I'll explain again ...

If you want to do an academic masters i.e. an LLM, you must have done undergraduate law (in most cases ... there may be a few exceptions)

If you want to become a lawyer, but would rather study something else for undergrad, you can take the Graduate Diploma in Law afterwards, followed by a vocational year. This is a postgraduate qualification, but it is not a masters.

I think it might be possible to do an LLM if you have taken another subject for undergrad followed by the GDL, but this is uncommon because the GDL only covers the bare minimum of law needed to qualify and practice.

Reply 16

HJV

akamode09

-even though I'm only 16, it's because my birthday is in October. I will have to apply to colleges next fall so I really only have a few months.

Don't worry, you have almost exactly one year to decide (I'm assuming you're graduating Spring 2009). The deadline for applications is 15 January (unless you apply to Oxford or Cambridge). So if you wanted to start autumn 2009, you'd need to have sent in the application by 15 January 2009. :smile:

no hero in her sky

20,000?

So not very common at all, then.

Well, relatively it quite common, compared to other countries. I should have said "relatively common", sorry.

Anyway, it is a very good preparation for uni. It's a shame that the OP's school has bad IB classes.

Reply 17

Just to stick up for my own degree, Cambridge offer an even better History course than Oxford. And is consistently the best in the UK, Oxford is somewhere around 4th, normally. You would also probably get interviewed in New York. So don't be tempted by the dark side. :p:

Oh and A Level history doesn't really prepare you for studying a History degree, the skills required are completely different. The closest thing is an optional coursework module that only a tiny proportion of students take (and even that isn't much preparation). You will probably be on a very similar starting level as everyone else. Depending on which university you go to, there tends to be a sharp-ish learning curve as you need to pick up the technique required for degree level essays.

As for the multiple disciplines you want to take, have a look at the different course structures at different universities. You might be able to study aspects of sociology and art history within the confines of a history degree - history is becoming more inter-disciplinary, and sociology is certainly covered in some respects in my course, and if you were particularly interested you could probably cover aspects of Art History. You need to have a fairly detailed look at the websites for different universities and see whether their straight History course offers what you want to study, and if not, whether they offer a joint/combined honours course which does.

Reply 18

ChemistBoy

St Andrews sounds ideal for you - you get to study several subjects before resting on a specialism to take to degree level. It would be possibly to study history and art history. Sociology would be more of a problem but you could do social anthropology or psychology, which have sociological elements in them. St Andrews is a scottish university so it has a system that is more like that in the US and takes student at 17 regularly. St Andrews also has a large american student population, which means that you'll find people to celebrate such things as thanksgiving with.

Reply 19

trm90

How high are you aiming? The good London universities (UCL comes to mind first for your interests) are relatively competitive, though I think you'd stand a pretty good chance anyway.

Don't worry about APs and preparation. AP courses are very specialised and as far as I'm aware they don't cover that much less than A-level or IB courses.

Anyway, as for the actual degree unless you're absolutely keen on law you might as well just do history/history of art and/or sociology. Good luck with your decision :smile: