criminal law problem Watch

taslima99
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Can someone help me apply the AR of theft for this question? Like would the appropriation be when he memorised the card details or used them to get the money out of the account? and would the card details be the property or the money from the bank account?

Ken visited a bar and sat at the table next to Toby. After Ken had drunk several lagers and after Toby had left the bar, Ken picked up off the floor Toby's bank card which had fallen out of his pocket. Ken memorised the details on the card before handing it in to the owner of the bar. On returning home, Ken used Toby's card details to buy a new mobile phone on the internet for £200, which came out of Toby's bank account.

Discuss Ken's possible criminal liability for property offences arising out of his use of Toby's bank card details on the internet.
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TimmonaPortella
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IIRC there's a case in which a transfer of monies between bank accounts is held to amount to an appropriation of the chose in action. It's been several years since I studied criminal law but I don't think I'm making that up. There would be an appropriation of the card, of course, but no complete theft at that stage, because there's no intent permanently to deprive etc, either in relation to the card itself or the details (which I'm fairly confident wouldn't fall under 'property' for this purpose anyway).

So I think you should be looking at the moment at which he actually causes the money to be transferred.
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taslima99
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
IIRC there's a case in which a transfer of monies between bank accounts is held to amount to an appropriation of the chose in action. It's been several years since I studied criminal law but I don't think I'm making that up. There would be an appropriation of the card, of course, but no complete theft at that stage, because there's no intent permanently to deprive etc, either in relation to the card itself or the details (which I'm fairly confident wouldn't fall under 'property' for this purpose anyway).

So I think you should be looking at the moment at which he actually causes the money to be transferred.
would i need to address the lost property (credit card)? not sure how i'd discuss belonging to another if it's the money in the bank account?
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by taslima99)
would i need to address the lost property (credit card)? not sure how i'd discuss belonging to another if it's the money in the bank account?
I don't think the bank card itself is the key here. I might bring it up to dismiss it but I wouldn't spend too long discussing it.

Well, the money came out of Toby's bank account. That's stated in the question, so 'belonging to another' is uncontroversial. What's probably more important is that you specify and discuss the nature of the appropriation, i.e. causing a transfer of funds out of Toby's account, and of the property appropriated, i.e. that it's a debt owed by Toby's bank to Toby that has been interfered with. If I were you I'd try to find a case that deals directly with theft by way of bank transfer etc.
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