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Is it sexual harassment? Watch

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    (Original post by It's****ingWOODY)
    I've been on the receiving end of sexually-oriented and sometimes explicit comments from random girls/women on the streets countless times (not trying to brag, just stating facts). I don't see it as harassment and I wasn't harmed by it, quite a nice ego boost tbh. Women are just as bad for this sort of thing as men are, I'd say, especially when they get in groups.

    I don't think it's really the same thing when a lone guy who looks like your avatar gets something shouted at him from a group of women compared to a lone 125lb 5'3 woman from a group of men.
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    I specifically used the example of a player I DID NOT know.

    This also doesn't explain to me why there is a fundamental difference between the two
    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    It still isn't the same thing, whether you know the player or not.
    Put it this way, if you want to compare the two situations, then you're assuming the woman on the street is 'playing a game' whereby she 'scores'/ attains validation by your comment that she is sexy/whatever it may be. Fact is, she isn't - she is just a person going about her business..

    Let's suppose she is merely wandering around town awaiting your validation, that's probably quite unhealthy, and a symptom of a society too involved in validation of appearances to respect the personal integrity and freedom of the individual.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    It still isn't the same thing, whether you know the player or not.
    Why isn't it? You haven't demonstrated this in any way other than 'I think' which isn't an argument
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    Why isn't it? You haven't demonstrated this in any way other than 'I think' which isn't an argument
    You haven't explained how it's the same thing. There's a huge difference being a woman going about your own business and having some creep shouting "hey sexy" at you and having someone shout "well done" at you. I've had both done to me and honestly never thought anything of the latter; but the former certainly isn't welcome.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    You haven't explained how it's the same thing. There's a huge difference being a woman going about your own business and having some creep shouting "hey sexy" at you and having someone shout "well done" at you. I've had both done to me and honestly never thought anything of the latter; but the former certainly isn't welcome.
    First - that's deflection because you aren't willing to answer my question.

    Second I already answered that - they're both compliments based on admiration of something about that person.
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    First - that's deflection because you aren't willing to answer my question.

    Second I already answered that - they're both compliments based on admiration of something about that person.
    What question? You're just trying to claim that sexual harassment is ok and that it's the same as saying well done to someone when it's not.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    What question? You're just trying to claim that sexual harassment is ok and that it's the same as saying well done to someone when it's not.
    No - we are debating whether or not it IS sexual harassment. I don't think it is. I am using examples of how compliments are viewed in context and pointing out the hypocrisy in suddenly treating this one specific form of compliment as awful. This strawman is impressing nobody and you know you're being disingenuous.

    The question as to what is fundentally the difference, which you know is the question.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    I don't think it's really the same thing when a lone guy who looks like your avatar gets something shouted at him from a group of women compared to a lone 125lb 5'3 woman from a group of men.
    Well, as it happens, most of this used to happen when I was at college, when I was still growing and probably weighed about the same as the average woman :rofl: I still get such things happening here and there but girls my sort of age are too mature to do it, for the most part. Either way, still doesn't make it right and why should it be totally acceptable for females to do it, yet when a man does it he's to be hauled over the coals as a deplorable, sexist pig.
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    I genuinely don't get how anyone can say an instance of a compliment is harassment. It fits neither the legal nor the literal definition. Sure, if a group of men shouts at you "We're gonna wreck that ass tonight" then call it harassment. It at least fits one definition and is likely to be cautioned under the other. But a guy in passing simply saying "hey sexy"? Get over yourself.
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    How can somebody yet offended by "hey sexy"?
    Some girls react like they just got egged
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    (Original post by banoffeee)
    The main problem is that when men do this, they don't comprehend the wider implications of their actions.

    E.g. if someone has been in a situation where they have been violated, that is extremely psychologically damaging, to an extent that no one except a survivor can understand. Thus when you make a comment like 'hey sexy', that can be perceived as threatening by the person. Ultimately, you don't know what a random has been through, or why they might find such comments threatening.

    Plus saying 'hey sexy', is a rather dumb comment, and I don't perceive it as a compliment. If someone needs that kind of boost from a random stranger, you start to question what's going on for them. I've had random people come up to me and say 'hey beautiful' but it didn't affect me in a positive way. I don't know them, and I don't give a **** what they think or don't think of my physical appearance. I'd rather they didn't say anything at all. I don't need approval/a random pat on the back from random strangers on something as superficial as my appearance. It's denigrating.

    If people started to really understand these things, they would see how such comments are potentially harmful.
    The problem with this line of reasoning is that basically any human interaction can be 'potentially harmful*' to someone. You never know what someone has been through or what random things may upset them, but I don't think it's reasonable or desirable to expect people to go through life treating everyone they meet with kid gloves.

    I mean, I once upset someone by asking them where they'd been the day before and it turned out they'd been at a relative's funeral. I apologised and, you know, it was just one of those things. I did not resolve that I must never engage in basic personal conversation unless I accidentally alight on something upsetting.

    'Hey sexy' is infantile, but that's about as far as it goes. OK yea, there's a good chance if you say that to a pretty stranger she'll tell you to **** off, but there's a non-negligible probability she could be interested in taking to the bloke. I think it's absolutely wrong to stigmatise men merely trying to pick up women, as opposed to something more persistent or threatening.

    *If you accept the idea that hearing something which makes you uncomfortable is actually harmful, which I do not, but hey ho that's the definition which we seem to be playing with these days.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    The problem with this line of reasoning is that basically any human interaction can be 'potentially harmful*' to someone. You never know what someone has been through or what random things may upset them, but I don't think it's reasonable or desirable to expect people to go through life treating everyone they meet with kid gloves.

    I mean, I once upset someone by asking them where they'd been the day before and it turned out they'd been at a relative's funeral. I apologised and, you know, it was just one of those things. I did not resolve that I must never engage in basic personal conversation unless I accidentally alight on something upsetting.
    I think men should be taught to understand that more serious assault and harassment is so prevalent and damaging that they shouldn't even be beginning to subjugate women in this way.

    How is saying 'hey sexy' subjugating a woman? Well, it's an assumption, without even first establishing an interaction with them/ talking to a person on a flirtatious level. It's assumption that they want to engage in flirtatious behaviour with you, and its an assumption they want commentary on their appearance from you. It puts the male in a position of dominance over the woman and thus there is no balance in the interaction. There is no 'getting to know you', it just goes right in, asserting male dominance over the woman.

    Put that to someone who has experienced sexual assault and harassment, and they will probably tell you that it feels threatening or at least uncomfortable and unnecessary.

    (Original post by Rinsed)
    'Hey sexy' is infantile, but that's about as far as it goes. OK yea, there's a good chance if you say that to a pretty stranger she'll tell you to **** off, but there's a non-negligible probability she could be interested in taking to the bloke. I think it's absolutely wrong to stigmatise men merely trying to pick up women, as opposed to something more persistent or threatening.
    The odds of a man getting a lay from a wolf whistle or unsolicited comment on a woman's appearance are basically none. I fail to see a situation in which a guy would say 'hey sexy' to a woman on the street and actually end up sleeping with her. Lol, once someone actually asked me out from a van window, and i was just like... seriously?? That's so low and so base, he may as well have asked me for a rump in the toilets! It just isn't going to work, well at least on someone with a certain level of self respect.
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    (Original post by It's****ingWOODY)
    Well, as it happens, most of this used to happen when I was at college, when I was still growing and probably weighed about the same as the average woman :rofl: I still get such things happening here and there but girls my sort of age are too mature to do it, for the most part. Either way, still doesn't make it right and why should it be totally acceptable for females to do it, yet when a man does it he's to be hauled over the coals as a deplorable, sexist pig.
    I didn't say it was right, I think it's wrong for women to objectify men as well. But I do think it's not exactly the same and even a man that weighs the same as a woman will still generally be stronger and better able to fight back if it's against a group of women vs a group of men. I think it's a phenomenon that most men will never fully understand at least at this time in society. That said, I'm sorry it happened to you.

    To clarify, I'm also not claiming a one off "hey sexy" is sexual harassment. I was just answering your individual post.
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    It’s not harassment but it’s f**king rude
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    (Original post by banoffeee)
    I think men should be taught to understand that more serious assault and harassment is so prevalent and damaging that they shouldn't even be beginning to subjugate women in this way.
    Based on the number of times I've been harassed/assaulted I think everyone could do with understanding this a bit better (men and women).
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    You might be ok with it. But many of us aren't and it can be quite intimidating.
    A man getting comments from practically a gang of cackling gypsies on the road stumbling out the pub is nothing compared to a much bigger stronger male abusing his authority over you :rolleyes: can't believe he's taking every opportunity to witter on about street walkers anyone would inevitably encounter on nights out like they compare to sexual harassment in the workplace.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    I don't think it's really the same thing when a lone guy who looks like your avatar gets something shouted at him from a group of women compared to a lone 125lb 5'3 woman from a group of men.
    Lol exactly what I said
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    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    That's not a difference - that's individual subjectivity.The thought of the person in both scenarios is the same, to provide a compliment based on admiration of something. The only difference is your personal interpretation of whether or not you want a randomer to shout 'hey sexy'. Maybe that person DOES want to hear that, maybe the player is highly anxious and doesn't wish to be complimented because its puts him off. This general criterion from your own subjectivity isn't distinguishing the two - it's telling me why YOU distinguish them which I disagree with.
    If you want to appreciate their aesthetics, then maybe going up to them and saying 'excuse me, but I just wanted to let you know that you're beautiful' but even then, it is potentially inappropriate. When you're saying in a game that someone has a 'good shot', you're suggesting some sort of familiarity between the two parties involved, as, for whatever reason, they are already playing a game. So, to compare this to the unfamiliar comment of 'hey sexy' is a category error.
    I have some more points generally but I'll come back to them tomorrow because I'm tired. Ultimately, I think it's inconclusive as to whether it is sexual harassment or not, but I do think it is inappropriate
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    (Original post by Dheorl)
    Based on the number of times I've been harassed/assaulted I think everyone could do with understanding this a bit better.
    truth
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    (Original post by banoffeee)
    I think men should be taught to understand that more serious assault and harassment is so prevalent and damaging that they shouldn't even be beginning to subjugate women in this way.

    How is saying 'hey sexy' subjugating a woman? Well, it's an assumption, without even first establishing an interaction with them/ talking to a person on a flirtatious level. It's assumption that they want to engage in flirtatious behaviour with you, and its an assumption they want commentary on their appearance from you. It puts the male in a position of dominance over the woman and thus there is no balance in the interaction. There is no 'getting to know you', it just goes right in, asserting male dominance over the woman.

    Put that to someone who has experienced sexual assault and harassment, and they will probably tell you that it feels threatening or at least uncomfortable and unnecessary.
    Talking to someone is not subjugating them, unless you subscribe to some fairly extreme Marxist philosophies...

    Your suggestion is that approaching someone and speaking to them is an act on the mild end of a spectrum which ultimately includes sexual assault. This is false, they are not even in the same universe.

    It is perfectly plausible someone who has experienced a traumatic experience may perceive non-threatening actions as threatening. This does not mean that the non-threatening action in question actually was threatening, and it is ridiculous to expect everyone to behave as if their every action will be perceived in the worst possible way.

    The odds of a man getting a lay from a wolf whistle or unsolicited comment on a woman's appearance are basically none. I fail to see a situation in which a guy would say 'hey sexy' to a woman on the street and actually end up sleeping with her. Lol, once someone actually asked me out from a van window, and i was just like... seriously?? That's so low and so base, he may as well have asked me for a rump in the toilets! It just isn't going to work, well at least on someone with a certain level of self respect.
    I don't think saying 'hey sexy' will likely be sufficient to get a woman into bed. But could it be part of an attempt to strike up a conversation which may ultimately lead in that direction? Sure. You seriously think that's never happened? Surprising as it may be to some, sometimes women aren't upset to be approached by a man they find attractive. The problem is men with a wildly inflated view of their own attractiveness to women, but it was ever thus and being unattractive doesn't make it harassment.

    Finally, the suggestion that women who may respond to such advances have no self-respect is in pretty poor taste. Modern feminism has replaced the sexual liberation of the 60s with an almost Victorian prudishness.
 
 
 
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