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    (Original post by abbiealexander20)
    Okay so I am set on being a child's nurse I have worked hard to get the grades and am hoping to be accepted however I have looked into accommodation and even with my maintenance loan I would be £200 short for shared bedroom accommodation! My parents earn over the limit so I am not entitled to anything else however they are also not going to help me out financially at all. Living at home is not an option as all the uni's are way too far from where I live. I already work now and plan to work through the summer to save however because of my course I have been told I will be unable to work? I'm really stuck on what to do, I am desperate to do this course but I don't get how if I cannot afford accommodation let alone food....and I would still like to have some sort of life and be able to go out for a drink every so months....Thanks guys
    Quite a few nursing/midwifery students work bank shifts as HCA or CSW which pays decent enough money and would top you up. You may also be able to apply for a hardship loan, it would depend on your uni so you should be able to enquire with the student union. Also, is the accommodation you are looking at in halls, or would you be happy to go privately ? here is a website that I used to get my current place. They do have some pretty cheap rooms (if your happy to house share, some are ensuite but of course they are most often more expensive) https://www.spareroom.co.uk/

    Also, there are these grants that you could potentially apply for but I would suggest you have a good read yourself because there seem to be a lot of terms and conditions to it. https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Find-Bene...631.1487329787
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    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    Yeah.

    I’ve accepted that if I wish to go to the University I wish to, it’ll mean taking a year or two out to work full time. And that’s okay, it’s not like it’s an awful thing, many people do.

    But I don’t believe I should have to solely because I’m not eligible for loans that others are.
    That means that they are on over £60k between them? There is NO WAY (even with 4 kids) that they dont have disposable income

    You get ~4k from sfe which means you need about another ~£3k from your parents to live on per year

    If you break down your parents income realistically

    1. £1000 rent a month (a guess?, assumes outside of major london zones)
    2. £120 food a week (average for family of 6)
    3. household bills ~6000 (gas, electric, water, council tax, internet) (slight overestimate depending on council tax) for a year
    4. car (assume 2) - roughly £5000 (a rough average)
    5. phone contracts (2 adults) - £70 per month

    so yearly costs are ~ £31000 (added on an extra ~£1k)

    Assume each person earns 30K per year - after tax etc ~£24k x 2 = 48k

    so 48k-31k = £17k left for fun so there is clearly plenty of money that your parents are choosing to spend elsewhere

    So your parents are choosing not to support you if the above assumptions are even remotely correct (and that I didnt miss any massive bills)

    in fact you have at least as much disposable income in your family as a household of 20k takes home per year before bills, rent etc, therefore your comment 'My families earnings are proportionate for the number of children they have. It would be equivalent to a low income family with a single child' definitely is no where near true
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    You could take this year out and work to save up for the first year, then just work as many hours as you can when not at uni in the following years. To save up for my Master's I worked like 70 hours a week average when away from home for the three years leading up to it. It is possible to earn money by just working in the holidays (and living cheaply while at university).
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    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    That means that they are on over £60k between them? There is NO WAY (even with 4 kids) that they dont have disposable income

    You get ~4k from sfe which means you need about another ~£3k from your parents to live on per year

    If you break down your parents income realistically

    1. £1000 rent a month (a guess?, assumes outside of major london zones)
    2. £120 food a week (average for family of 6)
    3. household bills ~6000 (gas, electric, water, council tax, internet) (slight overestimate depending on council tax) for a year
    4. car (assume 2) - roughly £5000 (a rough average)
    5. phone contracts (2 adults) - £70 per month

    so yearly costs are ~ £31000 (added on an extra ~£1k)

    Assume each person earns 30K per year - after tax etc ~£24k x 2 = 48k

    so 48k-31k = £17k left for fun so there is clearly plenty of money that your parents are choosing to spend elsewhere

    So your parents are choosing not to support you if the above assumptions are even remotely correct (and that I didnt miss any massive bills)

    in fact you have at least as much disposable income in your family as a household of 20k takes home per year before bills, rent etc, therefore your comment 'My families earnings are proportionate for the number of children they have. It would be equivalent to a low income family with a single child' definitely is no where near true
    I’m not going to breakdown my families costs, but I do have a sibling who requires medical alterations to our home, and private physiotherapists (a choice that wasn’t necessary, you can get physio on the NHS, but they want the best for her.) that aren’t paid for by the government. That’s the main problem. And it is not one I would ever ask them to compromise for my own sake.

    Did you ever consider that perhaps they aren’t willing to compromise their life style to help me pay for Uni? Sure it’s all neat and tidy on your book, but some of us can’t help parents who spend every penny they earn and don’t want to change that.

    And I don’t want them to.

    Like I said. I should be in full control of my loans from the government, because my families money certainly won’t be going towards me.
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    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    That means that they are on over £60k between them? There is NO WAY (even with 4 kids) that they dont have disposable income

    You get ~4k from sfe which means you need about another ~£3k from your parents to live on per year

    If you break down your parents income realistically

    1. £1000 rent a month (a guess?, assumes outside of major london zones)
    2. £120 food a week (average for family of 6)
    3. household bills ~6000 (gas, electric, water, council tax, internet) (slight overestimate depending on council tax) for a year
    4. car (assume 2) - roughly £5000 (a rough average)
    5. phone contracts (2 adults) - £70 per month

    so yearly costs are ~ £31000 (added on an extra ~£1k)

    Assume each person earns 30K per year - after tax etc ~£24k x 2 = 48k

    so 48k-31k = £17k left for fun so there is clearly plenty of money that your parents are choosing to spend elsewhere

    So your parents are choosing not to support you if the above assumptions are even remotely correct (and that I didnt miss any massive bills)

    in fact you have at least as much disposable income in your family as a household of 20k takes home per year before bills, rent etc, therefore your comment 'My families earnings are proportionate for the number of children they have. It would be equivalent to a low income family with a single child' definitely is no where near true
    I dont think you've factored the level of benefits a family of 4 children on £20k would receive. I've run the numbers for a single parent on £20k paying rent of £1000 a month and get a total of £512 a week - subtract child benefit and this still amounts to £450 a week.
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    why wont your parents help you out
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    (Original post by ajj2000)
    I dont think you've factored the level of benefits a family of 4 children on £20k would receive. I've run the numbers for a single parent on £20k paying rent of £1000 a month and get a total of £512 a week - subtract child benefit and this still amounts to £450 a week.
    The OP was comparing their families wage for a family of six to a family with 1 child on a low income not a family with 4 children.

    You wouldnt receive child benefit in this case or housing benefit if the person is a single parent
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    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    The OP was comparing their families wage for a family of six to a family with 1 child on a low income not a family with 4 children.

    You wouldnt receive child benefit in this case or housing benefit if the person is a single parent
    I've just run the numbers through entitledto.co.uk and a tax calculator, assuming rental costs of £1000 per month and a council tax of £1,300 per annum before discounts:

    - A single parent earning £20,000 with one child has monthly net income including benefits of £2,209. Subtracting rent and council tax leaves £1,128 - £564 per person per month.

    - A couple with one child where one earns nothing and one earns £20,000 has net income of £2,284. After rent and council tax they retain £1,203 - £401 per person

    - A couple on £60,000 (£30k x 2) has monthly net income including benefits of £4,302 - leaving £3,194 after rent and council tax - £532 per person per month.

    Sure, bills and food costs per person are generally smaller with a smaller family, but if, say, the couple earning £30k each both need cars and the single parent on £20k doesn't I'm not sure that there is a huge difference in ability to save money for college costs.
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    (Original post by anoymous77)
    why wont your parents help you out

    they can't afford to yet even if they could they wouldn't anyway as they have worked hard there whole life and given me everything why should they pay for my potential career when no one helped them?? i get where they are coming from just frustrates me i dont get loans yet my friends whos parents do nothing get way more...
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    (Original post by abbiealexander20)
    Okay so I am set on being a child's nurse I have worked hard to get the grades and am hoping to be accepted however I have looked into accommodation and even with my maintenance loan I would be £200 short for shared bedroom accommodation! My parents earn over the limit so I am not entitled to anything else however they are also not going to help me out financially at all. Living at home is not an option as all the uni's are way too far from where I live. I already work now and plan to work through the summer to save however because of my course I have been told I will be unable to work? I'm really stuck on what to do, I am desperate to do this course but I don't get how if I cannot afford accommodation let alone food....and I would still like to have some sort of life and be able to go out for a drink every so months....Thanks guys
    You'll be able to work part-time at your uni, but it'll be incredibly hard finding a job. Trust me, trying to find a half-decent retail job that hires students where I am, unless you've worked at the company before, is damn near impossible. It might be different where you end up though.
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    (Original post by ajj2000)
    I've just run the numbers through entitledto.co.uk and a tax calculator, assuming rental costs of £1000 per month and a council tax of £1,300 per annum before discounts:

    - A single parent earning £20,000 with one child has monthly net income including benefits of £2,209. Subtracting rent and council tax leaves £1,128 - £564 per person per month.

    - A couple with one child where one earns nothing and one earns £20,000 has net income of £2,284. After rent and council tax they retain £1,203 - £401 per person

    - A couple on £60,000 (£30k x 2) has monthly net income including benefits of £4,302 - leaving £3,194 after rent and council tax - £532 per person per month.

    Sure, bills and food costs per person are generally smaller with a smaller family, but if, say, the couple earning £30k each both need cars and the single parent on £20k doesn't I'm not sure that there is a huge difference in ability to save money for college costs.
    I am not quite sure how you worked this out tbh and the way you stated it is also misleading,

    1. A single parent with 1 child (the student going to uni) on £20000 would receive no benefits as they are classed as being on their own now (assuming the student is moving out like the poster I quoted is) so before rent + council tax would get ~£1420 a month (£500ish rent and ~100 per month council tax) so net £820 left per month

    2. A couple with 1 working 1 not would only get ~£10 a week in benefits from the calculator (assuming £500 rent etc)

    3. you cant give a breakdown of how much each person in the family gets per person in a family with 4 children as children dont get a equal share of the money (only food and a small amount for social stuff, the parents receive most of the money) so calculating how much the household gets per month and deducting the costs as a household gives a better representation of how much spare income there is for the parents

    so a single person in a 2 bed house (1 room for the parent, 1 for the student that is moving out) would have ~£400 left after all bills etc where as the richer family would have ~£1420 left so over triple the disposable income hence why they are expected to pay some money towards their childs uni living (as they child only really needs ~£300 - £400 a month extra when taking into account the minimum maintenance loan (outside of london)).

    As for the bottom bit about the richer families bills being higher + 2 cars etc I took that into account with my calculation.
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    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    I’m not going to breakdown my families costs, but I do have a sibling who requires medical alterations to our home, and private physiotherapists (a choice that wasn’t necessary, you can get physio on the NHS, but they want the best for her.) that aren’t paid for by the government. That’s the main problem. And it is not one I would ever ask them to compromise for my own sake.

    Did you ever consider that perhaps they aren’t willing to compromise their life style to help me pay for Uni? Sure it’s all neat and tidy on your book, but some of us can’t help parents who spend every penny they earn and don’t want to change that.

    And I don’t want them to.

    Like I said. I should be in full control of my loans from the government, because my families money certainly won’t be going towards me.
    The thing is you only want to be based on your own income and not your families now because it benefits you, you were more than happy to live on your parents income up until now.

    A student from a poor family has always been based on their parents income and had to go through the hardships of that + needing some supplementation from the government to continue to live and are still being based on it now when applying for a student loan, it is just at this point it is (some what) beneficial now as they get the money paid straight to them instead of it going to their parents.

    You want the best of both worlds (have a more wealthy upbringing but then be suddenly be viewed as being on your own income now as it suits you best) which would be viewed as playing the system if it was in any other part of the government system where money is given/loaned to people

    The government is more than happy to class people as independent students but to do so you need to actually have been an independent student before which you arent, this is to stop people abusing the system to suit themselves
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    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    The thing is you only want to be based on your own income and not your families now because it benefits you, you were more than happy to live on your parents income up until now.

    A student from a poor family has always been based on their parents income and had to go through the hardships of that + needing some supplementation from the government to continue to live and are still being based on it now when applying for a student loan, it is just at this point it is (some what) beneficial now as they get the money paid straight to them instead of it going to their parents.

    You want the best of both worlds (have a more wealthy upbringing but then be suddenly be viewed as being on your own income now when as it suits you best) which would be viewed as playing the system if it was in any other part of the government system where money is given/loaned to people
    “You were more than happy to live on your parents income up until now”

    Not quite, the costs of me were budgeted in favour of my siblings, I didnt receive many advantages in life because of my parents earnings. However, I understand where you’re coming from.

    If I was a single child in a 2 parent family (or single for that matter) on a low income, I’d be in a better position now. Not much would have changed in regards to my specific upbringing, although I likely would have lived in a smaller house.

    It’s true, those from lower income families need the financial support. I don’t think that should be taken away, they need the maximum loan possible. But sometimes, those from higher income families also do. I still believe loans should be given out on a more individual basis - And the only thing to be considered should not just be the figure your parents earn, that is not a representative figure by any means.

    Because that leaves people in my situation unable to go to University age 18, while others do and can.
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    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    I disagree, the system is in place to make things relatively fair between people who come from a well off background vs a poorer background, if your parents can easily afford to give you money why should the taxpayer give you more of a loan instead?
    (Original post by Swagio)
    Personally I think 'poorer' students should get a higher amount, because they're less likely to go to uni than their peers. A lot of my friends who are over the limit aren't particularly happy and want the same but I struggle to get my head around how people with a 60k income can't afford to support at all. Growing up our household income was 11k per year between 3 people (would probably be around 14k now with inflation) but we managed, but when I first went to uni there was literally not a penny to spare. 60k is obviously massively different so I don't see how there'd be literally nothing, when we lived off 11k. My friends hate this opinion and it's probably not that popular, but you have to make sacrifices if you have that level income if you want your kids to go to uni.
    And p.s. Just because someone's low income doesn't mean they work less. Me mum worked same if not more but was on around £6ph because she has mh issues and cognitive issues and no formal education, so feels a bit rich that people say low earners don't work and get more time with family when she had 2 jobs.
    (Original post by EmmaRebecca1997)
    This sums up why the student loan system needs seriously looking at and changing. I had a flatmate last year who was in pretty much the same boat. Her parents were very high earners but she had a very bad relationship with them so they weren't willing to help her financially. Because of the fact her parents earned so much her student loan allowance was the lowest possible and even with a job she could hardly support herself after rent went out due to how expensive halls are at our uni, even the 'budget' ones. The only reason she managed was because her older brother who had a full time job agreed to give her financial support just enough so she could make it through each week. The system shouldn't just be based on what your parents earn it should be based on what they earn and what they're willing to give to you, because the fact your parents earn a lot doesn't mean they're willing to give you money. Not everyone has good relationships with their parents. I agree that poorer students should be given more to help them get to university, but I don't think it should be solely based on household income because it's not always that simple.

    If you really cannot get any form of financial aid from anyone, as much as it sucks, I would recommend deferring a year, working for the next academic year and saving up your earnings, and going in 2019. You can do that and it doesn't affect your offer. My friend did so to take a gap year. If you're really that committed to getting this degree it may be the best option, even though it sadly means you'll have to wait a year. At least if you do that you won't be struggling which will save you a lot of stress.
    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    It is a very fair assumption to think that a family that earns £80k will have more disposable income than a family that earns £20k.
    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    (I do agree with that)

    But, the point still stands. It shouldn’t be assumed that because you’re family is on a higher income, they therefore have more disposable income left over.

    I stand by that students should be allowed to chose the amount their loan needs to be, up to the maximum amount set by the government. I shouldn’t have to be financially dependant on my parents in anyway, if someone from a family income of 20k is not.
    (Original post by fxlloutboyy)
    I don't understand how these parents can't afford to send their kids to University - they should have known their kids might want to go to university and have saved over the years, it's not difficult. I don't think the fact they have high mortgage and high bills should be factored into student finance, it's the parents fault for not considering extra costs they'd have. I come from a low income family that has wanted to support me financially despite it being extremely hard, having more money shouldn't make it acceptable to not provide for your children
    Lots of kids have had to have part time jobs to help parents make ends meet. Work and you'll be able to afford to live

    oh and also the minimum loan is £3800
    (Original post by madmadmax321)
    So you're in a position where your family earn a lot but arent in a position to support you?

    Also where is all of this extra money for loans to everyone coming from? even though it is a loan, a high percentage wont be paid back

    Edit - also this is one disadvantage of coming from a richer family, there are so so so many more disadvantages for coming from a lower income family so surely I shouldnt of had any of those just because of my household income?
    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    They don’t earn a lot. They earn a medium amount. But with 3 other children, and a house with a huge mortgage, they don’t have any money for me at Uni. Nowhere near what I’d realistically need.

    This isn’t a dig on lower income families. I’m from a middle income family; not a high one. I completely think they should be in place for those who *need* it. Which sometimes, is just as much as those who’s parents don’t have the money at all.

    My families earnings are proportionate for the number of children they have. It would be equivalent to a low income family with a single child. But the government don’t think about that when making the rules as to loans.
    (Original post by Glassapple)
    Perhaps your parents shouldn't have had 4 children then? If you have a big mortgage and other bills the most stupid thing you can do is to have more children. They haven't exactly helped themselves.
    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    Yep, not denying that. I don’t particularly appreciate my families choices for me to have 3 siblings. But nevertheless they are there. The fact remains, I don’t wish to, nor should I have to, be at all financially dependant on my parents for university.
    Wow I have quoted so many people now so I will give a basic jist of what I was about to say. Some people have higher expenses like living in London or close to London and having siblings. @glassapple who are you to question how many children a couple should have. The persons parents worked hard and have a right to do what they want at least they didn't pop out babies for benefits smh. It is just stupid tbh and and everyone should get enough to live independently and not rely on anyone else.
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    (Original post by Emz99)
    Wow I have quoted so many people now so I will give a basic jist of what I was about to say. Some people have higher expenses like living in London or close to London and having siblings. @glassapple you fa**** who are you to question how many children a couple should have. The persons parents worked hard and have a right to do what they want at least they didn't pop out babies for benefits smh. It is just stupid tbh and and everyone should get enough to live independently and not rely on anyone else.
    If you had actually bothered to read the reply of the person I said that to, you would have seen they agreed with absolutely everything I said. Yes you can have as many children as you want, it doesn't mean that doing so isn't a stupid thing to do financially.
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    (Original post by Glassapple)
    If you had actually bothered to read the reply of the person I said that to, you would have seen they agreed with absolutely everything I said. Yes you can have as many children as you want, it doesn't mean that doing so isn't a stupid thing to do financially.
    Yes, but why should that at all be my fault as a student? If I’m saying the system needs changing because my family have almost no income left over due to my siblings, “Well they shouldn’t have had more kids then” is an incredibly stupid thing to say.

    I shouldn’t get to go to University because I can’t afford it because I have siblings. Great system, government. Great system.
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    (Original post by Glassapple)
    If you had actually bothered to read the reply of the person I said that to, you would have seen they agreed with absolutely everything I said. Yes you can have as many children as you want, it doesn't mean that doing so isn't a stupid thing to do financially.
    It’s also worth noting, that they are financially stable enough to afford the amount of children they have.

    They just don’t then have enough income left over for thousands to be given to me whilst at University.

    The system is a flawed one.

    It shouldn’t fall back on me that my parents chose to have more children.
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    (Original post by Glassapple)
    If you had actually bothered to read the reply of the person I said that to, you would have seen they agreed with absolutely everything I said. Yes you can have as many children as you want, it doesn't mean that doing so isn't a stupid thing to do financially.
    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    Yes, but why should that at all be my fault as a student? If I’m saying the system needs changing because my family have almost no income left over due to my siblings, “Well they shouldn’t have had more kids then” is an incredibly stupid thing to say.

    I shouldn’t get to go to University because I can’t afford it because I have siblings. Great system, government. Great system.
    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    It’s also worth noting, that they are financially stable enough to afford the amount of children they have.

    They just don’t then have enough income left over for thousands to be given to me whilst at University.

    The system is a flawed one.

    It shouldn’t fall back on me that my parents chose to have more children.
    Yh the system is flawed it is stupid Labour policies fault that people punishes people for doing well for themselves. I mean 80-100k isn't massive amounts of money for a big family or a family living in London.
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    (Original post by FloralHybrid)
    It’s also worth noting, that they are financially stable enough to afford the amount of children they have.

    They just don’t then have enough income left over for thousands to be given to me whilst at University.

    The system is a flawed one.

    It shouldn’t fall back on me that my parents chose to have more children.
    (Original post by Emz99)
    Yh the system is flawed it is stupid Labour policies fault that people punishes people for doing well for themselves. I mean 80-100k isn't massive amounts of money for a big family or a family living in London.
    The universe doesn't owe either of you anything, unfortunately you were born in the circumstances you were born in and you were born in country with a system you don't like, you can't do anything about it. That's life, you don't and can't always get what you want.

    Hundreds of thousands of successful people never went university, you'll have to change what you want out of life if you can't go. It may not be fair but when has life ever been? Moaning about it on the internet isn't going to do anything, you just have to accept it.
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    (Original post by Glassapple)
    The universe doesn't owe either of you anything, unfortunately you were born in the circumstances you were born in and you were born in country with a system you don't like, you can't do anything about it. That's life, you don't and can't always get what you want.

    Hundreds of thousands of successful people never went university, you'll have to change what you want out of life if you can't go. It may not be fair but when has life ever been? Moaning about it on the internet isn't going to do anything, you just have to accept it.
    You must be a bundle of fun at parties.

    This isn’t about entitlement. I don’t believe I am owed anything at all. But I do believe I should have the same financial resources others get. “You can’t do anything about it” Isn’t that the very reason we promote conversation about things that need changing? They system isn’t an equal or equitable one.

    Is discussing it on TSR going to change the rules? No. But it’s a start. And it’s interesting seeing others in a similar situation to you.

    Of course people can be successful without going to University. But do you not see how ridiculous is it that some still can’t afford university, despite the constant promotion that finances shouldn’t stop you from wanting to go to in the first place?

    You really think the best solution here is to just accept that I can’t have access to higher education because the government thinks I already have the funds to do so?
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