Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • TSR Group Staff
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    Right so your barometer of hate cr

    The exam question is in my OP, the mantra that the far-right are far worse than the far-left.

    Are you able to compare all negative events from the far-right and far-left from these hate crime statistics? For a start are these hate crime statistics broken down into far right and far left? Do they capture, I don’t know say antifa pulling down a statue?

    How can you associate someone saying **** *** ***** as being far right- have you measured their familiarity with far right personalities like say Sir Oswald Moseley or Enoch Powell?
    I don't have time to do a research dissertation for you, sorry. There is plenty of evidence out there if you want to search around yourself. Once again though, I don't see what you're trying to prove, or what you think the implications are. One group being less violent than another doesn't magically make their arguments any more (or less) valid.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by k.russell)
    Education system that contains 0 mandatory political education and our (fairly) right wing government?

    Are you maybe the delusional one?
    Education systems which contains left wing Guardian reading teachers that bring up their opinions in every over subject, and call half of America, the Donald Trump supporters Racist.

    Our right wing government that thinks that the biggest problems are gay marriage and transphobia, and our BBC which has been proven to be a left wing biased institution by a Centre for Policy Studies piece of objective research.

    Our biased institutions where the half of populations that would probably support Trump are afraid to say so hence any debate on Trump would range from he is terribly bad to slightly bad when in fact many people support him but they live under a kind of terror where they can’t be honest out of fear of reprisals.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    Education systems which contains left wing Guardian reading teachers that bring up their opinions in every over subject, and call half of America, the Donald Trump supporters Racist.

    Our right wing government that thinks that the biggest problems are gay marriage and transphobia, and our BBC which has been proven to be a left wing biased institution by a Centre for Policy Studies piece of objective research.

    Our biased institutions where the half of populations that would probably support Trump are afraid to say so hence any debate on Trump would range from he is terribly bad to slightly bad when in fact many people support him but they live under a kind of terror where they can’t be honest out of fear of reprisals.
    A lot of Donald Trump supporters are racist, but I digress. Our government certainly doesn't think gay marriage and transphobia are the biggest problems, where are you getting this notion from?
    Also can you link the CPS study please I would like to see it. Bear in mind that whilst the BBC might be sometimes biased, their political editor is a Tory so it's not that unbiased.
    I don't think half the population would support Trump, with or without biased institutions.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by k.russell)
    A lot of Donald Trump supporters are racist, but I digress. Our government certainly doesn't think gay marriage and transphobia are the biggest problems, where are you getting this notion from?
    Also can you link the CPS study please I would like to see it. Bear in mind that whilst the BBC might be sometimes biased, their political editor is a Tory so it's not that unbiased.
    I don't think half the population would support Trump, with or without biased institutions.
    Sure, here it is:

    http://www.cps.org.uk/publications/bias-at-the-beeb/
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Online

    9
    ReputationRep:
    Sorry Dez, are you saying you don't actually have any statistics that "show an overwhelming amount of violent crime comes from the "far right"."?

    Then why make claims involving statistics when you are as good as guessing. Not a sensible way to conduct discussions, especially for TSR staff.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hatter_2)
    Sorry Dez, are you saying you don't actually have any statistics that "show an overwhelming amount of violent crime comes from the "far right"."?

    Then why make claims involving statistics when you are as good as guessing. Not a sensible way to conduct discussions, especially for TSR staff.
    And the irony of coming with a liberal argument which you are unable to source in a thread called the unlogic of the liberal left.

    You see they have just silenced people all these years as racists or something so they have never had to prove their claims.

    How about for the next one. Liberals think that calling for one nation policies like Trump’s America First policy is racist (as opposed to policies of affirmative action and identity politics to cater for so called oppressed groups like blacks, Muslims, women and gays). They think that anyone who refuses this kind of identity politics and group differentiation e.g. laws applied unequally between these groups as a kind of “affirmative action” is unacceptable. Furthermore liberals don’t tend to understand the real economy ie production of goods and services and think that economics is about government grants to disadvantaged groups. So libertarians to disavow cultural Marxism are racists to liberals.

    Furthermore liberals are masters of hypocrisy. They make their claims of adherence to cultural Marxism and then when they get drunk tear it all up to sheds taking the piss out of the absurd reality, safe spaces, trigger warnings, you can’t say nitty gritty, male and female are offensive to transgenders etc.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    Hahaha
    Online

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    And the irony of coming with a liberal argument which you are unable to source in a thread called the unlogic of the liberal left.

    You see they have just silenced people all these years as racists or something so they have never had to prove their claims.

    How about for the next one. Liberals think that calling for one nation policies like Trump’s America First policy is racist (as opposed to policies of affirmative action and identity politics to cater for so called oppressed groups like blacks, Muslims, women and gays). They think that anyone who refuses this kind of identity politics and group differentiation e.g. laws applied unequally between these groups as a kind of “affirmative action” is unacceptable. Furthermore liberals don’t tend to understand the real economy ie production of goods and services and think that economics is about government grants to disadvantaged groups. So libertarians to disavow cultural Marxism are racists to liberals.

    Furthermore liberals are masters of hypocrisy. They make their claims of adherence to cultural Marxism and then when they get drunk test it all up to sheds taking the piss out of the absurd reality, safe spaces, trigger warnings, you can’t say nitty gritty, male and female are offensive to transgenders etc.
    Exactly right, and it's become so commonplace that it's normal now for these new "Liberals" to not engage with the arguments but repeat something they've heard, bring in racism to take the moral highground, and genuinely believe they have won the argument (despite not responding to it).


    The BBC is so unbelievably biased, not just the news; documentaries and comedy programmes are filled with misinformation and snide remarks at Conservatives/Brexiters/Trump supporters.

    The corporation that produced Fawlty Towers now don't even have to think of jokes because they can get cheap laughs and classify it as comedy. Probably because it is obsessed with diversity quotas yet recruits very narrowly from middle-class left wingers.



    If the question of uncontrolled mass EU migration is raised, these "Liberals" say "We value the contributions of immigrants" to shut down debate even though the issue is numbers, not the people. The irony is by singling out immigrants as different, they are being more racist.

    You can't even criticise the inefficiencies in the NHS, like over procurement because they say "Our doctors and nurses do an amazing job". It simply makes debate impossible.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    Ronald Regan said “Our liberal friends know things that are not.” I would add to this that they don’t seem to know many things things that are or they seem to have formed some kind of cognitive dissonance.

    For example a recent mantra that has circulated around the liberal “Community”, is that the far-right are far worse than the far-left.

    The point I am making is that liberals hold an unjustifiably positive view of the far-left world n relation to the far-right.

    When you mention the spates of bombings in the U.S. in the 1970s by the Weather Underground, they raise you a Nazi Holocaust. Then the natural thing to do is mention to them by 100 million killings under Stalin and Mao.

    Then comes the interesting part they say “you’re just trying to justify it” or “two wrongs don’t make a right.”

    No, wrong. The only thing I’m trying to justify is don’t have single minded thinking, learn to accept challenges and learn that the education system, media and politics is always biased and to read through that bias is what you have a mind for.
    Your conclusion is not logically sound as at least one of your premises is false; not all liberals on the left believe that the far left is universally better than the far right.

    When it comes to the Western world I would argue that the far right has done more harm than the far left. The far left has had relatively little power/influence.

    I wouldn't call the regimes of Stalin or Mao "liberal" either, though economically they were very far to the left.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SHallowvale)
    Your conclusion is not logically sound as at least one of your premises is false; not all liberals on the left believe that the far left is universally better than the far right.

    When it comes to the Western world I would argue that the far right has done more harm than the far left. The far left has had relatively little power/influence.

    I wouldn't call the regimes of Stalin or Mao "liberal" either, though economically they were very far to the left.
    The liberal belief that the far left is superior to the far right is just one of their many magical beliefs. They also believe that if something is not on their news networks or newspapers, like their Guardian which never reports nay stories about so called protected groups doing any wrong only non-protected groups doing wrong. E.g. whites oppressing blacks or men oppressing women.

    Take the Hillary Clinton Russia Uranium scandal for example, they don’t see in on the BBC / CNN or in the Guardian then it can’t exist. Roger Stone flipped out at, CNN fake news’s Don Lemon 🍋 for fake news and someone got him banned, For standing up for the truth!!! Then the liberals were tweeting that the person who got him banned probably saved a life. Only a liberal can really understand this. Hey another victory, taking away some more free speech.

    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    The conclusion applies to The liberal left to a much higher degree because their views are confirmed by the mass media, government and education system. A right wing person has to speak in the terms of the liberal left or he will not be heard.
    You know that most British newspapers are right wing, right?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TrelaiBoy)
    You know that most British newspapers are right wing, right?
    This is the first paragraph of the definition of right wing in Wikipedia:

    “Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal or desirable,[1][2][3] typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences[10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system".[14]”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

    This definition comes from a Scientific American article on the culture wars in the US. (Many people should read this article as it’s extremely enlightening):

    “The idea of political correctness (PC) has received a lot of attention lately. The term is typically associated with the censorship of policies, actions, and language seen to disadvantage or offend a particular group of people in society, and the development of ways to fix such social injustices.
    The idea of political correctness is central to the culture wars of American politics. Often PC opponents (who tend to be conservative) use the phrase "political correctness" as a way of describing the "paradox of tolerance": promoting tolerance of minorities and members of other historically disadvantaged groups to such an extreme that such actions can itself be seen as another form of intolerance. The PC opponents believe that the PC movement is a form of "cultural Marxism", likening the PC philosophy to the major elements of the Leninist, Stalinist, and Maoist regimes. PC opponents believe that PC proponents often commit the very evils they claim to correct, including reverse discrimination and suppression of free speech.
    PC proponents (who tend to be liberal) reject this criticism, arguing for the transformational nature of language in altering attitudes and beliefs that can lead to meaningful social change. A major contributor to the PC movement is the doctrine put forward by postmodernist academics such as Althusser, Derrida, Foucault, Gramsci, Galbreith, and Marcuse. The thinking of Jacques Derrida has been particularly influential on university campuses in America. Derrida criticized the psychological process of categorization, suggesting that making any divisions is itself an act of motivated exclusion, serving the interests of maintaining power.”

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...l-correctness/


    I chose these definitions because they are build on actual conservatives, as opposed to “Liberal Conservatives” who rally for gay marriage and proper use of trans pronouns, and are completely frightened about ever being negative amount immigration because they might get called a Nazi, and think Donald Trump is the meanest man ever. Those are not conservatives, . They might wear a blue rosette, they may attend a Conservative Party bash, they may read a Tory paper but they are not conservatives. - Have I got my big C’s and small C’s the right way around.

    To be a conservative you are quite happy and proud if you go to work and your wife takes care of the family. You don’t make statistics on the oppression of one group to another and ways to challenge the prejudice and reverse traditional stereotypes. You believe this why? Because everything is functioning in the first place and does need people to write some myths and find the problems so that they can bring about “solutions” which only bring about negative like division between groups.

    Now tell me which newspapers are actually conservative?
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    This is the first paragraph of the definition of right wing in Wikipedia:

    “Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal or desirable,[1][2][3] typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics or tradition.[4](p693, 721)[5][6][7][8][9][page needed] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences[10][11] or the competition in market economies.[12][13] The term right-wing can generally refer to "the conservative or reactionary section of a political party or system".[14]”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics

    This definition comes from a Scientific American article on the culture wars in the US. (Many people should read this article as it’s extremely enlightening):

    “The idea of political correctness (PC) has received a lot of attention lately. The term is typically associated with the censorship of policies, actions, and language seen to disadvantage or offend a particular group of people in society, and the development of ways to fix such social injustices.
    The idea of political correctness is central to the culture wars of American politics. Often PC opponents (who tend to be conservative) use the phrase "political correctness" as a way of describing the "paradox of tolerance": promoting tolerance of minorities and members of other historically disadvantaged groups to such an extreme that such actions can itself be seen as another form of intolerance. The PC opponents believe that the PC movement is a form of "cultural Marxism", likening the PC philosophy to the major elements of the Leninist, Stalinist, and Maoist regimes. PC opponents believe that PC proponents often commit the very evils they claim to correct, including reverse discrimination and suppression of free speech.
    PC proponents (who tend to be liberal) reject this criticism, arguing for the transformational nature of language in altering attitudes and beliefs that can lead to meaningful social change. A major contributor to the PC movement is the doctrine put forward by postmodernist academics such as Althusser, Derrida, Foucault, Gramsci, Galbreith, and Marcuse. The thinking of Jacques Derrida has been particularly influential on university campuses in America. Derrida criticized the psychological process of categorization, suggesting that making any divisions is itself an act of motivated exclusion, serving the interests of maintaining power.”

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...l-correctness/


    I chose these definitions because they are build on actual conservatives, as opposed to “Liberal Conservatives” who rally for gay marriage and proper use of trans pronouns, and are completely frightened about ever being negative amount immigration because they might get called a Nazi, and think Donald Trump is the meanest man ever. Those are not conservatives, . They might wear a blue rosette, they may attend a Conservative Party bash, they may read a Tory paper but they are not conservatives. - Have I got my big C’s and small C’s the right way around.

    To be a conservative you are quite happy and proud if you go to work and your wife takes care of the family. You don’t make statistics on the oppression of one group to another and ways to challenge the prejudice and reverse traditional stereotypes. You believe this why? Because everything is functioning in the first place and does need people to write some myths and find the problems so that they can bring about “solutions” which only bring about negative like division between groups.

    Now tell me which newspapers are actually conservative?
    The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Financial Times, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph and The Times are all centre-right/right-wing and each of them supported the Conservative Party in the 2017 General Election and, according to YouGov each of these newspapers' readerships voted for the Conservative Party in large numbers at the Election (Each over 50% except the FT). They are Conservative/Right-wing newspapers.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TrelaiBoy)
    The Daily Mail, The Sun, The Financial Times, The Daily Express, The Daily Telegraph and The Times are all centre-right/right-wing and each of them supported the Conservative Party in the 2017 General Election and, according to YouGov each of these newspapers' readerships voted for the Conservative Party in large numbers at the Election (Each over 50% except the FT). They are Conservative/Right-wing newspapers.
    The Conservative party is not conservative any more. It is liberal left, at least it’s senior leadership is.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    The Conservative party is not conservative any more. It is liberal left, at least it’s senior leadership is.
    For the 2017 General Election from this website:
    https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2017


    Also, even if you think the Conservative Party is to the left, that has no bearing on the newspapers, who are still right wing
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TrelaiBoy)
    For the 2017 General Election from this website:
    https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2017
    According to the Spectator, Teresa May is the most let wing Tory Prime Minister for 40 years,

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/...-for-40-years/

    The trouble with using any system of benchmarking with politics is that for something like politics, the goal posts are always moving. You can easily benchmark something like the size of cars (getting bigger) but with politics it has shifted to the left radically over the last 100 years who what is what was the liberal left 100 years ago is now considered the far-right today.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    According to the Spectator, Teresa May is the most let wing Tory Prime Minister for 40 years,

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/...-for-40-years/

    The trouble with using any system of benchmarking with politics is that for something like politics, the goal posts are always moving. You can easily benchmark something like the size of cars (getting bigger) but with politics it has shifted to the left radically over the last 100 years who what is what was the liberal left 100 years ago is now considered the far-right today.
    Of course we've moved on socially since the First World War, which is why you should base how right/left someone is on social issues on today's standards, not the standards of 100 years ago as the world's moved on
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TrelaiBoy)
    Of course we've moved on socially since the First World War, which is why you should base how right/left someone is on social issues on today's standards, not the standards of 100 years ago as the world's moved on
    In other words, you agree everything has shifted towards the left, and we view the original right as so,etching bad (I think!) that we have moved on, so everyone just keeps moving left and Conservatives: “repeat after me male and female are bad and offensive, white people are oppressive and have white privileged, former slave owners, and race and gender are social constructs”. Everything keeps moving left until, POP, we ha e the culture war in the U.S., and it’s under the surface here too.

    What I am saying is that we have moved so far to the left that we have lost our minds, querying thinks like whether gender is natural.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    In other words, you agree everything has shifted towards the left, and we view the original right as so,etching bad (I think!) that we have moved on, so everyone just keeps moving left and Conservatives: “repeat after me male and female are bad and offensive, white people are oppressive and have white privileged, former slave owners, and race and gender are social constructs”. Everything keeps moving left until, POP, we ha e the culture war in the U.S., and it’s under the surface here too.

    What I am saying is that we have moved so far to the left that we have lost our minds, querying thinks like whether gender is natural.
    It depends whether you think tolerance and respect towards those who are different is a bad thing, surely moving forward socially is a good thing? The Conservative Party are hardly liberal by modern standards.

    Have we lost our minds? As far as I can see the majority in Britain aren't taking much notice of gender politics at the moment and it isn't a huge part of the national debate
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    8
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TrelaiBoy)
    It depends whether you think tolerance and respect towards those who are different is a bad thing, surely moving forward socially is a good thing? The Conservative Party are hardly liberal by modern standards.

    Have we lost our minds? As far as I can see the majority in Britain aren't taking much notice of gender politics at the moment and it isn't a huge part of the national debate
    Respect used to mean one thing but now they mean letting anyone into your country, and applying postmodern social theory to all the people in your country and these new people which means all groups need to be equalised. It isn’t exactly a conservative thing. (Obviously that’s not what happens in practise but it’s what liberals want and that conservatives pretend to want as they feel obligated to conform to postmodern social theory).

    The point is that politics in the West is driven my post modern social theory (see my Scientific American link above). This theory is thankfully under challenge in America however in this country Conservatives are against it. It pay lip service to it. Liberals don’t even realise that there is such a debate and you can actually reasonably think in terms outside of their own. They think any challenge to postmodern social theory is some kind of fascist thing, a dark element haunting from the past, or the product of a conspiracy theory.

    In short, the reason that the theory of the liberals is wrong is because they want to believe that all groups are created equally by nature (which is not true) and/or simultaneously you need to make all groups equal (which negated their first premise), and that history and biology are prisons which create equality, therefore you need to negate history and biology, which you of course cannot.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: November 4, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.