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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    :lol: Some of the stuff Bitcoin fanatics come out with is hilarious, it sounds more and more like a religion. It wouldn't bother me if they kept their ideas to themselves, but they always seem to be trying to convert other people.
    Whether you invest is meaningless to me I'm giving my opinions and answering questions, I've never once told anyone to invest.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    Whether you invest is meaningless to me I'm giving my opinions and answering questions, I've never once told anyone to invest.
    You are trying change peoples minds when they express scepticism. Pretty much every Bitcoin owner does the same thing.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    You are trying change peoples minds when they express scepticism. Pretty much every Bitcoin owner does the same thing.
    I'm not trying to change people's minds, I'm simply sharing my opinion on a topic I'm passionate about, investing an cryptocurrencies. By yout logic you also tried to change people's minds by expressing your negativity towards it.

    I expressed my optimism and confidence in it, you expressed your pessimism and uncertainty, it's called having a discussion.

    Let's just agree to disagree then and leave it here.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    :lol: Some of the stuff Bitcoin fanatics come out with is hilarious, it sounds more and more like a religion. It wouldn't bother me if they kept their ideas to themselves, but they always seem to be trying to convert other people.
    Yet you came into this thread to make this post.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    99.99% of all the gold in the world sits in bars doing absolutely nothing but holding its value. Bitcoin does have intrinsic value and that is based on the time and money it takes to create a bitcoin.
    Was about to say this. Bitcoin is nothing and you can't truly invest in this, but it's the same with gold or currency generally. Everyone is banking on someone in future being willing to accept your holding of shekels or yen for something in the future. Gold is the same, humans are like little magpies who want a piece of shiny metal, that's not investing either.

    Then look at the other side of things, real value investing in equities, ok that's fine, but when you live in the UK or America where there are professional analysts appraising companies to find fair values of stock, it becomes almost impossible to outperform the market and the level of correlation between out-performing your benchmark year on year is so low it suggests at this stage it's basically chance rather than skill to stock pick here.

    So who is the bigger fool, the person trading highly inefficient markets knowing that inefficiencies will exist which he or she can take advantage of, or the guy who genuinely believes he can outperform benchmarks even though for you to win someone else must lose, oh and guess what the platform takes a cut so the mathematical expected return over the benchmark is negative?
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    I often see the comparison of Bitcoin with the so called tulipmania in the Netherlands during the 17th century and whilst I have no claims to know whether Bitcoin will do well or not, it disappoints me to see otherwise intelligent people repeat a meme which is not only only half true, but doesn't match up with Bitcoin in terms of the matters of fact of the situation.

    The story which is often repeated is that during the early to mid 17th century the price of tulips began to rise so rapidly, that a market for tulip based derivatives, similar to the derivatives of equities we see today was formed. These tulips seemed to increase in value so much people were irrationally selling all that they own and taking loans to buy what was seen as a sure fire way to make huge profits risk free, until the supply of money ran out, the bubble popped and people who invested in a flower lost their money. Sanity restored.

    Well not quite. First of all the story is a complete exaggeration by the Catholic Church hoping to undermine financial markets as well as the British author Charles Mackay who was hoping to sell books much like the tabloid journalists of today, but what this story totally ignores is the efficient market explanation of the rise and fall of the tulip over that period. At the time the tulip had only recently been introduced to Europe by the Ottoman Empire and the supply was limited making this flower a hugely valuable prized possession to the European nobility. There was also a legal change at the time which allowed speculators taking long positions in tulip contracts, to simply pay a small charge rather than actually buying the tulip which meant agreeing to buy tulips at very high prices in the future was not nearly as risky as the face value payment would have suggested. Of course as farming methods have improved increasing their supply, the price deflated making it a humble flower rather than a symbol of wealth and status, yet it's all too easy to laugh at tulipmania as an example of the madness of crowds or to poke fun at foreigners, when nobody asks the same questions about diamonds and gold, which aside from limited industrial uses are just rocks and bits of metal which in some cases go for more than a lifetime of the earnings of most people.
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    (Original post by Ganjaweed Rebel)
    I often see the comparison of Bitcoin with the so called tulipmania in the Netherlands during the 17th century and whilst I have no claims to know whether Bitcoin will do well or not, it disappoints me to see otherwise intelligent people repeat a meme which is not only only half true, but doesn't match up with Bitcoin in terms of the matters of fact of the situation.

    The story which is often repeated is that during the early to mid 17th century the price of tulips began to rise so rapidly, that a market for tulip based derivatives, similar to the derivatives of equities we see today was formed. These tulips seemed to increase in value so much people were irrationally selling all that they own and taking loans to buy what was seen as a sure fire way to make huge profits risk free, until the supply of money ran out, the bubble popped and people who invested in a flower lost their money. Sanity restored.

    Well not quite. First of all the story is a complete exaggeration by the Catholic Church hoping to undermine financial markets as well as the British author Charles Mackay who was hoping to sell books much like the tabloid journalists of today, but what this story totally ignores is the efficient market explanation of the rise and fall of the tulip over that period. At the time the tulip had only recently been introduced to Europe by the Ottoman Empire and the supply was limited making this flower a hugely valuable prized possession to the European nobility. There was also a legal change at the time which allowed speculators taking long positions in tulip contracts, to simply pay a small charge rather than actually buying the tulip which meant agreeing to buy tulips at very high prices in the future was not nearly as risky as the face value payment would have suggested. Of course as farming methods have improved increasing their supply, the price deflated making it a humble flower rather than a symbol of wealth and status, yet it's all too easy to laugh at tulipmania as an example of the madness of crowds or to poke fun at foreigners, when nobody asks the same questions about diamonds and gold, which aside from limited industrial uses are just rocks and bits of metal which in some cases go for more than a lifetime of the earnings of most people.
    I'm not inclined to believe a word of this, where's your proof? I trust the FT and established economic historians more than hoax websites.
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    I'm not inclined to believe a word of this, where's your proof? I trust the FT and established economic historians more than hoax websites.
    I'm glad you asked my good man

    Changes to contract terms:

    https://mises.org/library/dutch-mone...ing-tulipmania

    https://link.springer.com/article/10...113-006-1000-6

    https://link.springer.com/article/10...127-006-9074-4

    Catholic Church attacking liberal financial markets:

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0C&redir_esc=y
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    (Original post by Snufkin)
    :lol: Some of the stuff Bitcoin fanatics come out with is hilarious, it sounds more and more like a religion. It wouldn't bother me if they kept their ideas to themselves, but they always seem to be trying to convert other people.
    Yet here you are trolling our thread.

    (Original post by Snufkin)

    I was not talking about mini crashes (which is what they were, Bitcoin has always had dramatic price fluctuations). I'm talking about a proper crash, one where Bitcoin's value is totally decimated. The bubble has not burst yet, but it will. They always do.
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    Hey, I invested in btc made a few thousand but at this moment i dont think its worth investing you should wait in till it drops again or buy it as soon as you can at cheapest value, you wont make much form 100-200£ investment you will need at least 1 to 2 BTC which atm can cost you from 6.5k to 11k+ as it is still on a rise.
 
 
 
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