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NYC attacker came to US on ‘diversity visa’ Watch

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    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/01...ogram.amp.html
    Basically a visa that’s given out as a lottery to people from countries with lower rates of immigration to the US in order to diversify the immigrant population of the US. Look at the beautiful cultural enrichment he brought
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    This program admits 50,000 new US citizens every year. So far, only two of those citizens have gone on to perform terrorist attacks. The visa system may well have problems, but likelihood of terrorism is clearly not one of them.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    This program admits 50,000 new US citizens every year. So far, only two of those citizens have gone on to perform terrorist attacks. The visa system may well have problems, but likelihood of terrorism is clearly not one of them.
    2 citizens let in via this system committing terrorist acts is a problem?

    I'm not against the system, there just needs to be improvements to prevent this from happening again
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    What are you complaining about? It is doing its job in diversifying the US population.

    White people commit terror attacks too
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    that ******* who shot so many people in Las Vegas was born & bred in the USA.
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    (Original post by Ikeo)
    2 citizens let in via this system committing terrorist acts is a problem?

    I'm not against the system, there just needs to be improvements to prevent this from happening again
    What sort of improvements?

    Bear in mind there has only been 2 attacks as a result of this visa program in the 27 years it's been running. I didn't find any numbers on how many green cards have been issued in total, but even if we assume a conservative 10k per year on average, that's still a 0.007% chance of any visa grant resulting in a terror attack.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    What sort of improvements?

    Bear in mind there has only been 2 attacks as a result of this visa program in the 27 years it's been running. I didn't find any numbers on how many green cards have been issued in total, but even if we assume a conservative 10k per year on average, that's still a 0.007% chance of any visa grant resulting in a terror attack.
    I'm not sure as they were most likely radicalized within the US, so changes within the security/intelligence system rather than the immigration
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    (Original post by the bear)
    that ******* who shot so many people in Las Vegas was born & bred in the USA.
    Shhh don't mention that. Trumper us waiting for FACTS before he'll comment :rolleyes:

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    This is where the harsh reality of the failure of the diversity dogma of the left become apparent to everyone: except the left.

    They argue that diversity in humanity is an abstract good. The more diverse the culture the better. (Although you never hear them arguing for a diversity of fatal diseases. The more different, the more varied cancers we have the better! Diversity is good in itself! )

    So we get programmes such as this which actually seek to settle individuals who have been brought up in Uzbekistan in New York City. And people are surprised when men from these backward, tribal, Mohammedan hellholes go all Allahu Akbar. (As they are doing over there, by the way, all the time. We just don't get to read about it)

    It is madness. We need to push back against the elites who are promulgating these insane policies based on this bankrupt ideology of diversity. Let Uzbeks stay in Uzbekistan. The west doesn't need them, doesn't want them, let them stay in their own countries, don't let them in. We already have enough Uber drivers.

    And we don't need more corpses piled up on the altar of the false god; Diversity.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    This program admits 50,000 new US citizens every year. So far, only two of those citizens have gone on to perform terrorist attacks. The visa system may well have problems, but likelihood of terrorism is clearly not one of them.
    FYI: they would get greencards not citizenship. Citizenship is a separate, later, process.

    I tried reading the news and it's not clear if this guy is a US citizen or not.




    It's weird he's from Uzbekistan. I always thought those guys were pretty liberal Muslims. :unsure: Although I may be confusing them with Kazakhs....
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    Theodore John Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber, is an American mathematician, anarchist and domestic terrorist. WikipediaBorn: 22 May 1942 (age 75), Chicago, Illinois, United StatesFull name: Theodore John KaczynskiHeight: 1.75 mNationality: American

    he did some pretty aweful stuff too. bad people are just bad people regardless of their origin. the best policy is to stop destroying countries through war and creating a hatred amongst people you have just displaced.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    It's weird he's from Uzbekistan. I always thought those guys were pretty liberal Muslims. :unsure: Although I may be confusing them with Kazakhs....
    What you'll never hear the right-wingers admit is that, ironically, it is living in the West that radicalises muslims.

    Radicalisation is strongest in third-generation muslim immigrants, and weakest in the first-generation.

    So this guy might well have been a liberal muslim when he arrived, and the West turned him into a terrorist.
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    (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
    What you'll never hear the right-wingers admit is that, ironically, it is living in the West that radicalises muslims.

    Radicalisation is strongest in third-generation muslim immigrants, and weakest in the first-generation.

    So this guy might well have been a liberal muslim when he arrived, and the West turned him into a terrorist.
    Pretty sure there's more radical Muslims living outside of the West than inside.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    Pretty sure there's more radical Muslims living outside of the West than inside.
    Yes, but the ones who arrive in the West are liberal, and their descendants turn radical.

    Like I said; the West turns liberal muslims into terrorists. It isn't Islam.
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    (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
    What you'll never hear the right-wingers admit is that, ironically, it is living in the West that radicalises muslims.

    Radicalisation is strongest in third-generation muslim immigrants, and weakest in the first-generation.

    So this guy might well have been a liberal muslim when he arrived, and the West turned him into a terrorist.
    I 100% agree with this.

    Buy what is it about the west that is radicalizing them? or at least making them more susceptible to radicalization?

    I personally put the susceptibility towards radicalization down to a 2 things:

    1 - Confusion/lack of identity
    2 - Lack of integration

    Racism/prejudice would form part of the first, with those from other countries struggling to form an identity due to not fully identifying with their parents/grandparents country of origin, as they never lived there.. and also not fully being able to identify with their country of birth due to not feeling accepted because of the color of their skin etc. Lack of integration feeds into this, and then we end up with second/third generation immigrants who are prime targets for dangerous ideologies.

    First generation immigrants are less subseptable because they completly avoid the first problem. They have an identity, my wife from China may live in the UK, and have UK citizenship, but she still maintains her Chinese identity/herritage/home etc. There is no loss of identity or conflict of identity as she will always have that part of her. If in the future she has been here long enough to add a british part to her identiy then great, maybe one day she will feel more british then chinese, but what ever happens there is never an absense or a hole there.

    ---

    My issue is what to do about this. I think its one of the strongest possible arguements for slow immagaration. Not a ban/outright 0 - but accepting that its an inevitability but managing it slowly. This gives a chance for 2 things to happen: 1, it facilitates inttergration, but most importantly, 2, it allows the native british populus time to grow and develop and accept immigration/diversity. Think about what it will be like when most of the people over 40 are gone.. our societal attitudes towards immigration will be vastly different. Change is happening, but societal change takes generations, it cant be rushed - and if you do rush it, you get a backlash.

    Therefor for me radicalisation is a problem exagerated by the speed of immigration, rather then its existence.
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    (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
    Yes, but the ones who arrive in the West are liberal, and their descendants turn radical.

    Like I said; the West turns liberal muslims into terrorists. It isn't Islam.
    This guy is a first generation immigrant.

    I'm not even sure you're correct that the first generation are all that liberal anyway. Liberal by the standards of the country they came from maybe, otherwise they wouldn't leave, but not compared to the native population.
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    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    FYI: they would get greencards not citizenship. Citizenship is a separate, later, process.

    I tried reading the news and it's not clear if this guy is a US citizen or not.




    It's weird he's from Uzbekistan. I always thought those guys were pretty liberal Muslims. :unsure: Although I may be confusing them with Kazakhs....
    My bad, I read that the program grants permanent residence, but I guess that's not the same thing as actually being considered a citizen.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    My bad, I read that the program grants permanent residence, but I guess that's not the same thing as actually being considered a citizen.
    Permanent residents can't apply for citizenship until they have lived in the US for at least 5 years. There's a background check, test, and interview - which might explain why this guy isn't a citizen (if that's the case).
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    (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
    What you'll never hear the right-wingers admit is that, ironically, it is living in the West that radicalises muslims.

    Radicalisation is strongest in third-generation muslim immigrants, and weakest in the first-generation.

    So this guy might well have been a liberal muslim when he arrived, and the West turned him into a terrorist.
    Isn’t there an obvious explanation for that? That Muslim identity is antipathetic to being a citizen in the West? You can be a good Muslim or you can be a Westerner, but you can’t be both?

    In this hypothesis, those of later generations feel torn between the two and hate, reject, the western part of themselves. Try and find their Muslim identity in jihadism which is an explicit rejection of Western civilisation, culture and political organisation.

    First generation Muslims don’t feel so threatened by the West. They are secure in their Muslim identity. In no sense are they Westerners.

    What I find extraordinary is the view, seemingly very prevalent, that just because you are born and brought up on a piece of land you are going to share cultural norms with other people born and brought up on the same piece of land.

    Isn’t it increasingly obvious that we don’t?
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    (Original post by Dez)
    This program admits 50,000 new US citizens every year. So far, only two of those citizens have gone on to perform terrorist attacks. The visa system may well have problems, but likelihood of terrorism is clearly not one of them.
    At the end of the day, any number of terrorists more than 0 is too much. And what's the befits of letting in mainly unskilled immigrants into America anyway? Skilled immigrants can come through work visas if America truly needs them. Why does America need 'diversity' at the risk of letting in potential terrorists?
 
 
 
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