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If you don't go to Oxbridge or a Russel group you've wasted over £30'000 Watch

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    (Original post by nashh606)
    Don't you think there's a problem with a user continuously repeating this idea of a non existent top 8 unis that can compare to ivy league? It's very misleading and poor advice, especially at a time when people are applying to unis
    Take it to a new thread about the subject if you want to continue this. Thanks.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Take it to a new thread on the subject if you want to continue this. Thanks.
    ok sorry
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    (Original post by nashh606)
    Yeah, you were saying?

    Rankings are complete rubbish. Manchester does not even compare with Ivy league, only oxbridge/imperial really does, then LSE then UCL. That's it.
    I went to Uni of Sussex and also lucky enough to have gone to an ivy league.

    And from my experience I can safely say American universities trump British ones by far in terms of money available to departments,facilities etc. It's just insane over there. The quality of education I would maybe say is comparable to oxbridge/imperial like you say but I wouldn't say the jump academically was "huge"
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    (Original post by trapking)
    I went to Uni of Sussex and also lucky enough to have gone to an ivy league.

    And from my experience I can safely say American universities trump British ones by far in terms of money available to departments,facilities etc. It's just insane over there. The quality of education I would maybe say is comparable to oxbridge/imperial like you say but I wouldn't say the jump academically was "huge"
    Yeah exactly. Ivy league is just a group for some sort of sport division or something and doesnt include all the best (Stanford for example)

    Maybe the jump isnt huge but at the end of the day there's only so much you can learn when you're at undergraduate level
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    (Original post by nashh606)
    Yeah exactly. Ivy league is just a group for some sort of sport division or something and doesnt include all the best (Stanford for example)

    Maybe the jump isnt huge but at the end of the day there's only so much you can learn when you're at undergraduate level
    The Ivy league are still extremely high quality learning institutions though and hard as hell to get into. Remember being sat next to these two guys and they were telling me how they got rejected by Havard and MIT was mad.
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    (Original post by trapking)
    The Ivy league are still extremely high quality learning institutions though and hard as hell to get into. Remember being sat next to these two guys and they were telling me how they got rejected by Havard and MIT was mad.
    Oh yes definitely, I didnt mean to undermine them, they're the best in the world as a group of unis by a long long mile
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    The way I see it, I could get into Cambridge for theology if I really wanted to but what is the point? I would much rather apply to a far lower down university like Glasgow or Edinburgh for Mathematics or the sciences than Theology in Cambridge because no-one gives a damn if you have done theology. Also, if you go to a really high ranking university (Oxford for example) then you will find yourself under more stress to perform to a high standard and your university experience will be one of constant stress and pressure. The reality of university for many people nowadays is just a means to an end in itself, most of the job market is occupied by jobs that require/ prefer those with university degrees that show commitment to your studies and a good attitude.
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Hold on, so there's no recent RG grads at Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 (winners of 4 consecutive F1 Constructors Championships)?

    Let's see: hmm... 17 recent grads are listed at Mercedes of which 50% are RG (including Oxbridge).

    They employ good people, not just grads of "newer unis".

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Technical Directors of Formula One Teams:

    -> Mercedes (UK) - James Allison - Cambridge

    -> Red Bull (UK) - Adrian Newey - Southampton

    -> McLaren (UK) - Tim Goss (ICL) / Neil Oatley (Loughborough) / Pete Prodromou (ICL)

    -> Force India (UK) - Andy Green - Portsmouth

    -> Williams (UK) - Paddy Lowe - Cambridge

    -> Renault (UK) - Bob Bell - Queen's Belfast

    -> Haas (US/UK) - Rob Taylor (?) / Ben Agathangelou (Southampton)

    -> Ferrari (Italy) - Mattia Binotto - EPFL (Laussane)

    -> Toro Rosso (Italy) - James Key - Nottingham

    -> Sauber (Switzerland) - Jorg Zander - Cologne

    On reflection, it's not all an Oxbridge old boys club. A few years ago there were a lot of Cambridge Engineering alumni at the top of F1, but that's changed somewhat more recently. That said, the most respected designers among this bunch (Newey, Allison, Lowe, Prodromou) do tend to have particuarly excellent degrees.

    E: By the way, if this isn't a massive billboard for Southampton Aerodynamics I don't know what is.
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    (Original post by LandoNorrisWDC)
    Technical Directors of Formula One Teams:

    -> Mercedes (UK) - James Allison - Cambridge

    -> Red Bull (UK) - Adrian Newey - Southampton

    -> McLaren (UK) - Tim Goss (ICL) / Neil Oatley (Loughborough) / Pete Prodromou (ICL)

    -> Force India (UK) - Andy Green - Portsmouth

    -> Williams (UK) - Paddy Lowe - Cambridge

    -> Renault (UK) - Bob Bell - Queen's Belfast

    -> Haas (US/UK) - Rob Taylor (?) / Ben Agathangelou (Southampton)

    -> Ferrari (Italy) - Mattia Binotto - EPFL (Laussane)

    -> Toro Rosso (Italy) - James Key - Nottingham

    -> Sauber (Switzerland) - Jorg Zander - Cologne

    On reflection, it's not all an Oxbridge old boys club. A few years ago there were a lot of Cambridge Engineering alumni at the top of F1, but that's changed somewhat more recently. That said, the most respected designers among this bunch (Newey, Allison, Lowe, Prodromou) do tend to have particuarly excellent degrees.
    Good research. Except the poster I was answering would say that it's the very recent hires that are significantly different. I don't doubt that universities like Oxford Brookes and Loughborough can be excellent for budding F1 engineers. What I do doubt is that RGs don't also provide good F1 engineers too.

    And, by no means every engineer wants to work in F1 anyway...
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    (Original post by Doonesbury)
    Good research. Except the poster I was answering would say that it's the very recent hires that are significantly different. I don't doubt that universities like Oxford Brookes and Loughborough can be excellent for budding F1 engineers. What I do doubt is that RGs don't also provide good F1 engineers too.

    And, by no means every engineer wants to work in F1 anyway...
    I live and breathe for motorsport and it is absolutely my goal to try and get into the industry after graduating, but I can completely understand why F1 (or any international racing series) would be unappealing for an engineering graduate. If you can live without the passion, the adreneline, and the hyper-competitiveness, then desigining footpaths for the Surrey County Council is probably a better gig in almost every other measurable way!
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    If I had mentioned the Big 8 and added certain TSR-loving universities like Warwick, Bristol or St. Andrews, there would be applause. Now these universities are not among, there is anger that the metrics might be wrong.
    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Warwick has been destroyed on many threads for being a bit overrated. If you remove Maths and Economics, many folks seem to agree that Warwick is just a bog-standard university.

    Warwick is a hideously overrated university.

    TSR is an echo chamber comprising a very specific demographic. It seems to be mainly new money(ish) middle-class but state-educated 17 year olds, who are good at Maths and interested in finance, but don’t particularly appreciate things like history or tradition, hence the enormous Warwick-bias on here (a good Maths uni with absolutely no character). There's also a bias for other universities provided they are at least semi-IB targets.

    It's worth mentioning that Warwick is not particularly respected amongst those from top private schools/public schools or the upper-classes. Newcastle, on the other hand, is very popular with the upper-classes. You'd probably find that Newcastle is actually more respected than Warwick amongst this demographic (which is not surprising if you google it).

    The majority of TSR are high achievers from relatively lower-middle class backgrounds whose parents didn't go to university (there is a poll from another thread somewhere which supports this), which might explain why the traditional redbricks aren't particularly creamed over on this forum. Let me explain. In the days when there were only about 40 universities in the country, the redbricks were usually considered the 'proper' universities outside of Oxbridge, whereas the plate glass ones were often viewed as 'lesser' since they were much newer and less traditional. Around 7-10% of the population went to university, so it was more exclusively for those who went to private/grammar schools. Their children who are applying to university now (I guess you could call this demographic ‘old money middle-class’?) probably have more enthusiasm towards the traditional redbricks, because their parents received a very good education from them and did well for themselves. This demographic is also more likely to be aware that league table reputation doesn't matter, because their parents went to university before league tables existed and they realise league tables are just an 'invention'.

    Whereas TSR seems to be a forum full of academically able 17 year olds from less traditional/non-academic backgrounds, who haven’t even started university yet, and are more likely to get their information from their school’s careers advice department, league tables, and other people on TSR.

    What TSR thinks is hardly reputable advice, or a sufficient cross section of people’s perceptions of UK education (far from it). It’s a very specific demographic of a very impressionable age group.
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    (Original post by beatles17)
    It's worth mentioning that Warwick is not particularly respected amongst those from top private schools/public schools or the upper-classes. Newcastle, on the other hand, is very popular with the upper-classes. You'd probably find that Newcastle is actually more respected than Warwick amongst this demographic (which is not surprising if you google it).
    That might be true in the North or North East, as the public schools in that area are more likely to be feeders into Newcastle. It isn’t true (from my experience) of schools in the South East/Home Counties though.
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    (Original post by beatles17)
    Warwick is a hideously overrated university.

    TSR is an echo chamber comprising a very specific demographic. It seems to be mainly new money(ish) middle-class but state-educated 17 year olds, who are good at Maths and interested in finance, but don’t particularly appreciate things like history or tradition, hence the enormous Warwick-bias on here (a good Maths uni with absolutely no character). There's also a bias for other universities provided they are at least semi-IB targets.

    It's worth mentioning that Warwick is not particularly respected amongst those from top private schools/public schools or the upper-classes. Newcastle, on the other hand, is very popular with the upper-classes. You'd probably find that Newcastle is actually more respected than Warwick amongst this demographic (which is not surprising if you google it).

    The majority of TSR are high achievers from relatively lower-middle class backgrounds whose parents didn't go to university (there is a poll from another thread somewhere which supports this), which might explain why the traditional redbricks aren't particularly creamed over on this forum. Let me explain. In the days when there were only about 40 universities in the country, the redbricks were usually considered the 'proper' universities outside of Oxbridge, whereas the plate glass ones were often viewed as 'lesser' since they were much newer and less traditional. Around 7-10% of the population went to university, so it was more exclusively for those who went to private/grammar schools. Their children who are applying to university now (I guess you could call this demographic ‘old money middle-class’?) probably have more enthusiasm towards the traditional redbricks, because their parents received a very good education from them and did well for themselves. This demographic is also more likely to be aware that league table reputation doesn't matter, because their parents went to university before league tables existed and they realise league tables are just an 'invention'.

    Whereas TSR seems to be a forum full of academically able 17 year olds from less traditional/non-academic backgrounds, who haven’t even started university yet, and are more likely to get their information from their school’s careers advice department, league tables, and other people on TSR.

    What TSR thinks is hardly reputable advice, or a sufficient cross section of people’s perceptions of UK education (far from it). It’s a very specific demographic of a very impressionable age group.
    I agree that TSR seems to be an echo chamber of specific "values" or aspirations. There are a handful of universities, where a fair number of students fervently worship.

    From my experience on here, Warwick seems to be one of the choices, probably because of the points you alluded to in your comments.

    My point on the so-called "Big 8" universities seem to be a very controversial topic. This is because people would either doubt the metric used or bring their own to defend why their university should be there. Others argue against it being done at all.

    The irony of this situation is that my sister studied Economics at Warwick, but folks think i may have a bias against them. Someone once accused me that i may have applied to Warwick and did not get in.

    Anyway, your comments are very good and adds a dimension to TSR conversations. In the end, to each his own.
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    > good Maths uni with absolutely no character

    Sorry to say it, but this was exactly my impression visiting Warwick. The fact that the University is viewed as considerably better for Maths than practically any other subject seems to have driven a wedge between the maths students and faculty and the rest of the university. Even the professors there seemed to propogate a particular brand of aloofness - as if they viewed the Maths department as wholly distinct from the rest of the institution.
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    (Original post by liquidconfidence)
    I've heard a lot of people, especially teachers, slyly voice this opinion.

    Usually in year 12 everyone swears that they're definitely going to a Russel Group or Oxbridge. Then the reality of mock exams hits home and most people end up going to London Met.

    Is it true that you're doomed if you don't go to a prestigious institution and will people look down on you eek

    I think this can be split into two very different questions:

    1) Are you better off going to a Russel Group uni?
    2) Are you better off going to a good uni?

    1) The Russel Group includes some unis that are relatively low ranking and so the answer is no. The Russel Group is all to do with research and not to do with the quality of education, graduate prospects, etc.... Many of them are highly ranked, which is why people sometimes conflate "good uni" with "Russel Group".

    2) I think people at more highly ranked universities generally do better but this is possibly because, to get a place at these unis, you are probably pretty clever and/or hardworking, which obviously employers want. I know people from my college who got A*AA and went to the VERY low ranking local university purely because they didn't want to leave home. I also know people who scraped a place at Liverpool (a Russel Group uni) with relatively poor grades through clearing. I think the former would be more employable, assuming they keep up their hard work and good grades.

    Also, to add to the above, some relatively low ranking universities are world leaders in specific subjects (for example, more niche subjects), therefore, the reputation of that department may give you better graduate prospects than another uni that is more highly ranked as a whole.
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Even with law and consulting, the idea that they come from a small group of unis is just a poor myth that is constantly perpetuated.

    Law and Consulting (and even IB) are actually really broad sectors within themselves. It might be true of a small fraction of employers at the very top end of the profession, but they are a minority within a sector, and then are a minority because of the wider set of sectors they sit within.
    not really, if you look at consulting, 60% of employees are oxbridge
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    (Original post by Samendra)
    not really, if you look at consulting, 60% of employees are oxbridge
    Only if you look at top end strategy consulting. Consulting is much broader sector than the big name elite firms within strategy.
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    I mean look at it this way, if someone did a primary teaching degree at a non-Russel group univeristy, they'd still get a job as a primary teacher , just not in a huge prestigious private school. That goes for all careers as well, unless it's the kind of career that requires Russel group like if you want to be a Lord etc
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    (Original post by J-SP)
    Only if you look at top end strategy consulting. Consulting is much broader sector than the big name elite firms within strategy.
    strat consulting is where its at tho, general consulting isnt as high paying as IB, strat consulting on the other hand is
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    It honestly really annoys me when people call universities "bad". Some people would absolutely KILL to get into even a "bad" univeristy!
    You guys don't know how lucky you are! Speak to a cleaner, ask them if they would turn down an unconditional offer at a "bad" univeristy, I'm telling you now, they'd accept that offer with open arms.
 
 
 
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