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The real agenda about the sexual scandal hypersensitivity Watch

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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I disagree. I think it is about as clear cut as you can get. If the person whose knee is being touch doesn't mind there is no issue. If they do mind, you have over stepped the mark. Consent really is as simple as a cup of tea!

    https://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ
    There are two problem with your argument:

    1. How do you know if they will mind being touched on their knee unless either your are psychic or you ask them. Asking them is not feasible - the reasons are obvious.

    2. How can we have serious laws based on “what someone likes” - seriously? What if I don’t like the sight of cheese - we now need to ban cheese from all restaurants and supermarkets?
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    There are two problem with your argument:

    1. How do you know if they will mind being touched on their knee unless either your are psychic or you ask them. Asking them is not feasible - the reasons are obvious.
    If you are at work, other than a medical emergency could you please provide just one example of where you need to touch someone in a way that could be regarded as sexual in a nature or flirtatious?

    Am I seriously having this conversation? My 4 year old son is learning that his body is private and he can choose who touches it. Why can't the over 4s understand that?
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    There are two problem with your argument:

    1. How do you know if they will mind being touched on their knee unless either your are psychic or you ask them. Asking them is not feasible - the reasons are obvious.
    Why do you need to touch someone’s knee in the first place? Why is it not feasible to communicate your intentions verbally? Would you rather risk coming across as a ****ing creep than simply asking if the other person is okay?

    2. How can we have serious laws based on “what someone likes” - seriously? What if I don’t like the sight of cheese - we now need to ban cheese from all restaurants and supermarkets?
    What if someone’s perfectly okay with getting punched in the face by random strangers? Oh no! The system is broken! We better get rid of common assault laws!
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    I read some of these stories about men in Parliament resigning for putting their hand on someone’s knee or whispering a sweet nothing in someone’s ear - and it makes me weep. It’s pitiful but at the same time it couldn’t have happened to an more appropriate bunch of people - the very ones who force political correctness on us.

    There are essentially two categories that harassment falls into;

    1. Real harassment - someone willingly interferes with someone or their life

    2. Hypersensitivity - an overreaction about a trivial comment for example

    Customarily sexual relations are initiated by men and accepted by females. It’s a bit like a contract, an offer followed by acceptance or decline. There is such hypersensitivity about men making an offer. On top of this people often do playful behaviour naturally - woman and men do it.

    What this is, is political correctness - the actual underlying theory is called postmodern social theory. (The theory says that all group differences in outcome are caused by oppression and prejudice - which is wrong because the differences are actually from nature and biology - and that therefore we have oppressor groups (men/ whites) and oppressed groups (females / blacks) and what politics needs to do is make these groups equal and punish the oppressors on the way. The political establishment, media establishment and education are all onboard with this false theory).

    What the collective mind is doing is attaching what is calls “the patriarchy”. I think you will find that the vast vast majority of the people attacked this way are men. The theory seeks to create victims in anyway it can and this is the latest way it has found to crate victims. Once it had created victims it can find the accused and punish them then as a side effect creating social change on the way, in this case the desired effect is to make men so scared that they are not say boo to a goose.

    This does of course not excuse genuine harassment or inappropriate conduct which is now much harder to identify due to the extreme hypersensitivity phenomenon.
    We now live in a society where one is guilty until proven innocent, rather than the other way round.

    When one is accused of something, his/her life shuts down as he tries to defend themselves. Everyone deserts them and this ruins their livelihood.

    I agree with some points that you have made and i think people are mixing real sexual assault with anything that happens.

    I don't want to offend anyone but i think some people want the idea of being a victim. When i read some of these stories, the accusations are so ridiculous that i don't whether it is true or overblown.

    I think we have to go back to the days of real justice rather than mob or media justice. Else, we are on a slippery slope towards a chaotic society.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    We now live in a society where one is guilty until proven innocent, rather than the other way round.

    When one is accused of something, his/her life shuts down as he tries to defend themselves. Everyone deserts them and this ruins their livelihood.

    I agree with some points that you have made and i think people are mixing real sexual assault with anything that happens.

    I don't want to offend anyone but i think some people want the idea of being a victim. When i read some of these stories, the accusations are so ridiculous that i don't whether it is true or overblown.

    I think we have to go back to the days of real justice rather than mob or media justice. Else, we are on a slippery slope towards a chaotic society.
    People like you are the reason why sexual harassment is widely unreported.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    I personally don’t need to touch anyone in the knee. Sometimes as part of the normal process of communicating people touch people or grab them to get their attention. Also there are all kinds of social, intimate and sexual situations in world and lots of grey areas.
    Woman expect men to make the first move sexually. Imagine if a man makes a first move and is rejected. This might be upsetting for him, but then imagine if his life is ruined for attempting that first move.

    You are dehumanising him and trashing him just for being a man - which is exactly what certain people, radical feminists etc. Would love. That is just a disgusting thing to do to someone. Those sorts of people would not like to see it from the mans point of view because their whole belief system is about identity politics and negating certain identifies.

    [/QUOTE]

    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    What if someone’s perfectly okay with getting punched in the face by random strangers? Oh no! The system is broken! We better get rid of common assault laws!
    Your logic is off point. The point was about having defined laws not “what’s on my mind laws”. Punching in the face is a defied action I.e violence.

    If we have “what’s on my mind” laws, we’ll I was offended by something you did, the way you misunderstood me, so you’re going to jail now. Imagine if you really did get sent to jail. You are a real person - so are everyone else. We should only punish people who actually execute malicious intent.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    People like you are the reason why sexual harassment is widely unreported.
    Ok.

    I sincerely hope not though. I am against harrasment in any form, but I am for real justice.

    I do not want a man to be accused of rape, have his world shut down and we later learn that his accuser falsely accused him. This has happened and had ruined people's lives.

    For example, if a person is harassed at work by a co-worker. The accused should be suspended, whilst there is a deep investigation. If it is true, the perpetrator is sacked and jailed for their crime.

    Do you remember the Oxford student, who was falsely accused for rape and became a national news. It later turned out to be untrue, but his life was damaged by months of trying to clear his name.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...was-false.html

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...3#.Wf2k00GnyaM

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/0...cused-of-rape/
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Ok.

    I sincerely hope not though. I am against harrasment in any form, but I am for real justice.

    I do not want a man to be accused for rape, have his world shut down and we later learn that his accuser falsely accused him. This has happened and had ruined people's lives.

    For example, if a person is harassed at work by a co-worker. The accused should be suspended, whilst there is a deep investigation. If it is true, the perpetrator is sacked and jailed for their crime.

    Do you remember the Oxford student, who was falsely accused for rape and became a national news. It later turned out to be untrue, but his life was damaged by months of trying to clear his name.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...was-false.html

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...3#.Wf2k00GnyaM

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/0...cused-of-rape/
    Your post is all about clear malicious intent versus complete made up lies.

    It doesn’t deal with the 99% of natural areas in between.

    A man simply makes a completely innocent and commonplace move in good faith to start sexual relations for example, he can then be investigated for sexual misconduct.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    Your logic is off point. The point was about having defined laws not “what’s on my mind laws”. Punching in the face is a defied action I.e violence.

    If we have “what’s on my mind” laws, we’ll I was offended by something you did, the way you misunderstood me, so you’re going to jail now. Imagine if you really did get sent to jail. You are a real person - so are everyone else. We should only punish people who actually execute malicious intent.
    Sexual harassment and battery are well-defined in law. If you’re having trouble deciphering whether or not it’s appropriate to touch someone in a specific manner, then simply refrain from touching. It’s not that hard to keep your hands to yourself.

    No no, you see by your logic, if a person is okay with an action that’s otherwise unacceptable to the vast majority of people, then the vast majority should get over it and accept it. So going by your twisted logic, we should be okay with husbands beating the **** out of their wives, especially if the wives themselves don’t have a problem with it, right?
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Ok.

    I sincerely hope not though. I am against harrasment in any form, but I am for real justice.

    I do not want a man to be accused of rape, have his world shut down and we later learn that his accuser falsely accused him. This has happened and had ruined people's lives.

    For example, if a person is harassed at work by a co-worker. The accused should be suspended, whilst there is a deep investigation. If it is true, the perpetrator is sacked and jailed for their crime.

    Do you remember the Oxford student, who was falsely accused for rape and became a national news. It later turned out to be untrue, but his life was damaged by months of trying to clear his name.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...was-false.html

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...3#.Wf2k00GnyaM

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2014/0...cused-of-rape/
    Cherry pick your anecdotes all you want. I’m aware of and sympathetic to those who’ve been falsely accused. I’ve condemned women who purposely ruin someone’s life like this many times on this very forum. However, don’t let anecdotes (and let’s tace it, your sex) skew your perspective as to just how big of an issue sexual harassment is for women. Even conservative estimates suggest 1 in 5 women have been sexually harassed in the workplace. Is that figure acceptable to you? Does your mother, sister, daughter, wife work? How would you feel if they were made to feel uncomfortable in a professional setting and were too scared to report it for obvious reasons?
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I disagree. I think it is about as clear cut as you can get. If the person whose knee is being touch doesn't mind there is no issue. If they do mind, you have over stepped the mark. Consent really is as simple as a cup of tea!

    https://youtu.be/pZwvrxVavnQ

    But I ask this question, WTF is any MP touching the knee of anyone in a proffesional environment? He was being interviewed as part of his job. He was not on a romantic date.
    So I was sexually harassed because I was touched when I did not want it?
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    Your post is all about clear malicious intent versus complete made up lies.

    It doesn’t deal with the 99% of natural areas in between.

    A man simply makes a completely innocent and commonplace move in good faith to start sexual relations for example, he can then be investigated for sexual misconduct.
    It is all about his word vs her word.

    The main issue today is that people move too quickly and get aggressive.

    An assault is an assault and should be investigated. However, if it is false, then it becomes a problem.

    On one side, it is very important that all assaults should be reported with false accusations being punished; on the other side, people argue this may deter some serious cases from being reported because the victim might feel like they are not being listened to.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Sexual harassment and battery are well-defined in law. If you’re having trouble deciphering whether or not it’s appropriate to touch someone in a specific manner, then simply refrain from touching. It’s not that hard to keep your hands to yourself.

    No no, you see by your logic, if a person is okay with an action that’s otherwise unacceptable to the vast majority of people, then the vast majority should get over it and accept it. So going by your twisted logic, we should be okay with husbands beating the **** out of their wives, especially if the wives themselves don’t have a problem with it, right?
    You seem to relying on this concept “appropriate”. What defies appropriate? I think your definition of appropriate is “if the women likes it”. We both have the same premise that appropriate sexual conduct is with two consenting adults. Someone has to initiate sexual conduct from a conversion - that’s how it works, and society expects it to be the man. I had a situation years ago where a woman I met wanted to talk and hand out but not sexual relations which is fine. I didn’t realise that initially and made a small move which she stopped. Absolutely fine, but in some of these situations it seems man are being severely punished.

    So tell me if a man initiated something physical and is rejected - is he an actual person whose life needs to be ruined?

    Your second part, we don’t need to go into what is acceptable to the majority v unacceptable because I’m talking about the acceptable and normal processes between people that have always taken place and will always take place.

    What you essentially want to do is to build a weapon to be able to clobber men over the head with simply because they are in the position that they need to initiate sexual relations.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Cherry pick your anecdotes all you want. I’m aware of and sympathetic to those who’ve been falsely accused. I’ve condemned women who purposely ruin someone’s life like this many times on this very forum. However, don’t let anecdotes (and let’s tace it, your sex) skew your perspective as to just how big of an issue sexual harassment is for women. Even conservative estimates suggest 1 in 5 women have been sexually harassed in the workplace. Is that figure acceptable to you? Does your mother, sister, daughter, wife work? How would you feel if they were made to feel uncomfortable in a professional setting and were too scared to report it for obvious reasons?
    I know the stats.

    I never said that they should not report it. ALL cases should be reported. I am just against false cases. Accusing someone of an assault like rape is a huge one. This can literally end the person's life.

    The best way to approach it is to change the law.

    If Person A is accused of rape by Person B, his/her identity is hidden until a full investigation is made. Once that is done, if guilty, the process of identifying the person is done.

    We cannot have a system that hides the identity of Person B but then splatter the identity of Person A over the tabloids.

    Finally, i never said that cases should go unreported, but people should be innocent until proven guilty.
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    I personally don’t need to touch anyone in the knee. Sometimes as part of the normal process of communicating people touch people or grab them to get their attention. Also there are all kinds of social, intimate and sexual situations in world and lots of grey areas. see less Woman expect men to make the first move sexually. Imagine if a man makes a first move and is rejected. This might be upsetting for him, but then imagine if his life is ruined for attempting that first move. You are dehumanising him and trashing him just for being a man - which is exactly what certain people, radical feminists etc. Would love. That is just a disgusting thing to do to someone. Those sorts of people would not like to see it from the mans point of view because their whole belief system is about identity politics and negating certain identifies.
    1) Only creeps who lack awareness touch other’s knees. It’s not a “normal process of communication”, especially not in a professional setting.

    2) You appear to confusing asking someone out and unwanted sexual advances. Mosy decent people are able to differentiate the two; I’ve yet to come across a case where asking someone out constituted as sexual harassment. Stop making up bs to perpetuate your own sense of “Nice guy” victimhood mentality.

    3) I have no time for your generic anti-feminist rants about identity politics.
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    (Original post by joecphillips)
    So I was sexually harassed because I was touched when I did not want it?
    Yes. If I make you a cup of tea and you say no, I have no right to expect you to drink it.

    I am still waiting for someone to tell me when it would be appropriate for me to touch anyone in a professional environment. Other than a handshake and that is about as consensual as it gets as you offer your hand for the shake.

    Am I seriously having this conversation? If someone doesn't want to be touched, you don't touch them. It is so so so simple.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    1) Only creeps who lack awareness touch other’s knees. It’s not a “normal process of communication”, especially not in a professional setting.

    2) You appear to confusing asking someone out and unwanted sexual advances. Mosy decent people are able to differentiate the two; I’ve yet to come across a case where asking someone out constituted as sexual harassment. Stop making up bs to perpetuate your own sense of “Nice guy” victimhood mentality.

    3) I have no time for your generic anti-feminist rants about identity politics.
    No I think I have decades of personal experience about how processes work between the genders. A make could ask someone out and the female could accept. The assumption here is that the male has sexual intentions. The female may not have sexual intentions or be figuring out whether she has sexual intentions. Let’s assume in this example that the female doesn’t have sexual intentions. The make makes a small move to initiate sexual relations and the female doesn’t want this and declines. At this point if the man is in a position of power, then he female can make a claim of inappropriate sexual conduct and ruin the man’s life.

    Of corse you have no time for any challenges to the postmodern social theory ideas about oppressor groups and oppressed groups - you want to keep that thinking in place at all costs and you want to claim that there is no legitimate challenge to those ideas.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Yes. If I make you a cup of tea and you say no, I have no right to expect you to drink it.

    I am still waiting for someone to tell me when it would be appropriate for me to touch anyone in a professional environment. Other than a handshake and that is about as consensual as it gets as you offer your hand for the shake.

    Am I seriously having this conversation? If someone doesn't want to be touched, you don't touch them. It is so so so simple.
    That’s right if you make a cup of tea, you have no right to expect someone to drink it.

    The problem arises when someone says “I’m offended that you made the cup of tea” and then a number of people think you need to lose your job over making it.

    The point I am making is that the level of sensitivity is so High that it is construing the nuances and grey areas, often hard to predict , fiddly areas of human behaviour, as offences.


    Who you think likes to have leverage where you can destroy men for offering to make the tea? Feminists of course. You can start literally taking power from men. These are the same people who walk around almost naked with the letters “slut walk” and getting in everyone’s face, then all this fuss about a glance or incidental touch. We are taking not about normal people, but people with an agenda. All social justice warrior types have an agenda and they life life to further that agenda.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    No I think I have decades of personal experience about how processes work between the genders. A make could ask someone out and the female could accept. The assumption here is that the male has sexual intentions. The female may not have sexual intentions or be figuring out whether she has sexual intentions. Let’s assume in this example that the female doesn’t have sexual intentions. The make makes a small move to initiate sexual relations and the female doesn’t want this and declines. At this point if the man is in a position of power, then he female can make a claim of inappropriate sexual conduct and ruin the man’s life.

    Of corse you have no time for any challenges to the postmodern social theory ideas about oppressor groups and oppressed groups - you want to keep that thinking in place at all costs and you want to claim that there is no legitimate challenge to those ideas.
    Oh no, poor touchy man It’s so hard to keep your hands to yourself these days, right? Silly feminists have ruined everything. We can’t even slap a woman’s arse in clubs now. Back then it was just harmless fun with complimentary undertones! The regressive Marxist lefty liberal feminist Jew SJWs have truly taken over! Don’t they know a man is physically incapable of asking someone out in an appropriate manner?!

    Thank you for bringing this postmodern social theory conspiracy against men to my attention, old chap. Keep challenging ((them)).
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Yes. If I make you a cup of tea and you say no, I have no right to expect you to drink it.

    I am still waiting for someone to tell me when it would be appropriate for me to touch anyone in a professional environment. Other than a handshake and that is about as consensual as it gets as you offer your hand for the shake.

    Am I seriously having this conversation? If someone doesn't want to be touched, you don't touch them. It is so so so simple.
    How do you know if someone is going to want to be touched and it is too some extent appropriate for some minor touching when you care about each other(it need not be anything sexual at all) and maybe the employee's sad about something.

    I think that you know if someone touches you on your knee and you don't like it then yes they have stepped over the mark but it is normally an honest mistake and they didn't mean too hurt you. What you should normally do is just say you don't like it and most of these people doing it are not nasty they would probably normally accept this and move on. If they don't then thats sexual harassment.

    I think the last part is very important the accused needs to have actually have had malicious intent its not enough for the victim to be offended and not like what you have done. People are acting as if stepping over the line in relationships/friendships is unusual its happens in a variety of different ways(usually nothing to do with sexual harassment but its just an example) and people forgive them because they normally didn't mean to do anything wrong. Note this obviously doesn't apply if they sexually assault you as they have no right to touch those areas without consent.
 
 
 
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