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The real agenda about the sexual scandal hypersensitivity Watch

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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I fully understand this. But there are ways and ways of making a move. You could ask? You don't have to stick your tongue down someone's throat to test the waters. You only seem to be looking at this from the male perspective.

    How would you feel if half a dozen blokes tried to snog you whilst you were having a bit of a boogie with your other half?
    No you don’t have to stick your tongue down someone’s throat to test the waters but you have
    to do something! Most people are clever enough to know that you do something that you can recover from and but that’s still noticeable enough. Let’s call that the MNM (minimum noticeable move).

    If we criminalise the MNM, then it would be a real killer. Signing consent documents is just not very sexy.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    No you don’t have to stick your tongue down someone’s throat to test the waters but you have
    to do something! Most people are clever enough to know that you do something that you can recover from and but that’s still noticeable enough. Let’s call that the MNM (minimum noticeable move).

    If we criminalise the MNM, then it would be a real killer. Signing consent documents is just not very sexy.
    You didn't answer my question. How would you feel if half a dozen blokes tried to hit on you whilst you were having a boogie with your mates and your other half?
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    You didn't answer my question. How would you feel if half a dozen blokes tried to hit on you whilst you were having a boogie with your mates and your other half?
    You aren’t comparing like for like. One female would be like for like. And I think you know the answer to that in terms of the sentiment it would cause.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    One female would be like for like.
    Ok - how about your partner then? There you are with her on the dance floor strutting your stuff and bloke after bloke tries to get off with your partner? Come on - its only a bit of fun. Let them have their fun. Your partner doesn't mind does she? Its only a bit of banter!
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    Ok - how about your partner then? There you are with her on the dance floor strutting your stuff and bloke after bloke tries to get off with your partner? Come on - its only a bit of fun. Let them have their fun. Your partner doesn't mind does she? Its only a bit of banter!
    Well I can take a real example for that. If I’m saying bye to a female and give a goodbye kiss on the cheek my other half doesn’t like it and brings it up, and then claims it’s unhygienic and I could being colds into the home. If someone kissed me properly she wouldn’t most probably go mental. It would be highly odd for a female stranger to walk right up to me and kiss me out of the blue. Never happened in my life.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    Well I can take a real example for that. If I’m saying bye to a female and give a goodbye kiss on the cheek my other half doesn’t like it and brings it up, and then claims it’s unhygienic and I could being colds into the home. If someone kissed me properly she wouldn’t most probably go mental. It would be highly odd for a female stranger to walk right up to me and kiss me out of the blue. Never happened in my life.
    What is it with the youth of today? You are like my ICT class. They don't read the question either.

    How do you feel about those times when you are on the dance floor with your partner and a load of blokes keep trying to hit on her? As you say - it is only a bit of fun for them. No harm done. I am sure you wouldn't object.
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    What is it with the youth of today? You are like my ICT class. They don't read the question either.

    How do you feel about those times when you are on the dance floor with your partner and a load of blokes keep trying to hit on her? As you say - it is only a bit of fun for them. No harm done. I am sure you wouldn't object.
    I wouldn’t go to a place like a disco and realistically expect no one to hit on her. Blokes shouldn’t really hit on a women that is with another man I.e. taken but you expect it. If someone does not want someone to bowl up to them, then they should not go to a disco.

    People are going to talk to people. They should not be creepy, leery about it or clingy. And if she wants to make friends with blokes as long as that’s all it is I don’t mind.

    The scenario we were discussing though was not someone bowling up to a stranger and kissing them. It was people hanging out with someone then kissing them. That’s a very different thing. There are all kinds of zones between men and women between being friends and proper partners, and the definition of those zones can change from day to day.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    Women wouldn’t joke about it if it was such a distressing life changing event. It’s probably more distressing for the bloke who has been rejected.
    Aw, didums. Yes, I've rejected guys. But when the way they ask me out was to basically harass me, it probably didn't come as much of a surprise.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    Aw, didums. Yes, I've rejected guys. But when the way they ask me out was to basically harass me, it probably didn't come as much of a surprise.
    They say true love waits. But it isn’t true in today’s world. People have too many options. The best way to get someone for keeps is to sleep with them.

    If a guy moves to soon, then you’re harassed but if he moves too late then many women will have moved on and accepted a move from someone else. They may not want a Shakespeare and want intimacy.

    So one of the dimensions in your judgement about how good / bad a man is, is his ability to move at exactly the right time I.e. ability to read your mind.

    There’s two levels to this:

    1. Is this really the best way to judge someone? Looking at the breakup / divorce rates and general level of satisfaction in relationships? What you are saying is that a guy could be the right one but get the move time wrong in your eyes due to his experience with other people, judging it wrong? Is there then a terrible person? You could be missing out on a good person.

    2. The talk on here about criminalising men for getting the timing wrong from a women’s perspective .

    3. You’ve basically said who cares about he men which seems to be the general perspective held by a lot of people even men on this forum (not men at most work, I can tell you). I’m sorry but someone you are talking to putting their hand on your hip is not exactly a big deal for you. (Please posters on here note I wrote someone you’re talking to not a random out of the blue move).

    It’s the most minor of minor inconveniences. All you need to go is push them hand away if you don’t like it. Can you imagine what it would be like for men if they could be criminalised for making the move too soon. It would create a very negative and strained environment and probably breed a lot of anger and resentment. And what about the impact on his life? Don’t be taught hatred of men. This is exactly what people pushing political correctness want, to divide people based on groupings and you seem to be falling for it.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    No you don’t have to stick your tongue down someone’s throat to test the waters but you have
    to do something! Most people are clever enough to know that you do something that you can recover from and but that’s still noticeable enough. Let’s call that the MNM (minimum noticeable move).

    If we criminalise the MNM, then it would be a real killer. Signing consent documents is just not very sexy.
    Actually it really is. There was an article by a guy that hate totslly changed how he thought about it, and his conclusion was that te sex was actually much better once he started asking women for permission, and about their feelings, and his own, instead of just getting naked and getting in with it.

    http://boodaism.com/permission/
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    I wouldn’t go to a place like a disco and realistically expect no one to hit on her. Blokes shouldn’t really hit on a women that is with another man I.e. taken but you expect it. If someone does not want someone to bowl up to them, then they should not go to a disco.

    People are going to talk to people. They should not be creepy, leery about it or clingy. And if she wants to make friends with blokes as long as that’s all it is I don’t mind.

    The scenario we were discussing though was not someone bowling up to a stranger and kissing them. It was people hanging out with someone then kissing them. That’s a very different thing. There are all kinds of zones between men and women between being friends and proper partners, and the definition of those zones can change from day to day.
    A disco is for dancing. I didn't know it's a place for men to be sexually rude to women. Then again, that's not the most shocking opinion you've expressed.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    You aren’t comparing like for like. One female would be like for like. And I think you know the answer to that in terms of the sentiment it would cause.
    Why not? You're assuming the woman you are going to hit on is straight.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Why not? You're assuming the woman you are going to hit on is straight.
    You don’t. That’s why you go in carefully and look for signs that the person is interested. But some men are going to get it wrong in terms of what the woman wants sometimes even with the best of intentions and care.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    You don’t. That’s why you go in carefully and look for signs that the person is interested. But some men are going to get it wrong in terms of what the woman wants sometimes even with the best of intentions and care.
    So why dodge the question about men hitting on you with the "like for like" nonsense. They don't know if you are gay or not.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So why dodge the question about men hitting on you with the "like for like" nonsense. They don't know if you are gay or not.
    Not really because you have to make assumptions and generalisations in life. It’s probably best for gay people to come onto people in a gay club.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    Not really because you have to make assumptions and generalisations in life. It’s probably best for gay people to come onto people in a gay club.
    Why? Are you saying they need to segregate themselves? And assumptions and generalizations are what cause stereotypes and bias. Maybe women should generalize "men are trash" because they just can't be sure if the guy is potentially violent or not, so better safe than sorry.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Why? Are you saying they need to segregate themselves? And assumptions and generalizations are what cause stereotypes and bias. Maybe women should generalize "men are trash" because they just can't be sure if the guy is potentially violent or not, so better safe than sorry.

    If an emergency surgeon is working on a patient who is in critical state he may not have time to go and get the patient records. He will need to take actions before the patient dies.

    Similarly if a policeman sees a man with a gun pointing it at a crowd, he may not have time to assess whether the gun is real, fake, whether the man is in fancy dress. He will need to take action before people get shot.

    It’s called reality. Reality works in real-time. No one can stop time to commission a study to answer 100 questions on something or someone. People have no choice but to proceed with assumptions.
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    (Original post by Airplanebee2)
    If an emergency surgeon is working on a patient who is in critical state he may not have time to go and get the patient records. He will need to take actions before the patient dies.

    Similarly if a policeman sees a man with a gun pointing it at a crowd, he may not have time to assess whether the gun is real, fake, whether the man is in fancy dress. He will need to take action before people get shot.

    It’s called reality. Reality works in real-time. No one can stop time to commission a study to answer 100 questions on something or someone. People have no choice but to proceed with assumptions.
    You are comparing a surgeon to a guy making an assumption? Not only is that absolutely ridiculous, it also misses a key point. The surgeon is doing something for the patient. What are men doing for women by harassing them? Oh yea, your whole story about how unfair us men have it because we are the ones that need to approach women and women have it so easy and yadda yadda yadda.

    Maybe more people should assume you love being punched in the face, and do that for you. Can't blame them for it can you, they have to make assumptions.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Actually it really is. There was an article by a guy that hate totslly changed how he thought about it, and his conclusion was that te sex was actually much better once he started asking women for permission, and about their feelings, and his own, instead of just getting naked and getting in with it.

    http://boodaism.com/permission/
    saw this link and thought I would comment,
    when I think of rape I think of a man forcing himself on a woman against her will, and by that I mean her making it clear she doesn't want this by either verbally saying it or physically pushing him away when he is trying to penetrate her

    the situation in the link the man had just had a date with her and made a move, he assumed he had her consent because she did not object in any way to the kissing, breast grabbing, or putting her his hand down her pants..

    ...then after sex she turns round and says "you raped me"!

    if the girl was actively going along with the kissing groping etc [doing it to him back] ...then it it was not rape, because lets face it ....millions of couples have sex like that without the man explicitly asking the woman each and every time "do you want to have sex"

    to say that is rape would criminalize a very large amount of the population

    if she was just standing there letting him do it but not kissing/groping him back, then "technically" that may be rape ....however i could well see why he thought she was ok with it.

    there should be different categories of rape imo, as clearly what happened there was not as bad as a man forcing himself on a woman against her will, yet they could both end up in prison for many years ....but one guy raped her with intent, and one guy did it by accident on a technicality...........
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    (Original post by ANM775)
    saw this link and thought I would comment,
    when I think of rape I think of a man forcing himself on a woman against her will, and by that I mean her making it clear she doesn't want this by either verbally saying it or physically pushing him away when he is trying to penetrate her

    the situation in the link the man had just had a date with her and made a move, he assumed he had her consent because she did not object in any way to the kissing, breast grabbing, or putting her his hand down her pants..

    ...then after sex she turns round and says "you raped me"!

    if the girl was actively going along with the kissing groping etc [doing it to him back] ...then it it was not rape, because lets face it ....millions of couples have sex like that without the man explicitly asking the woman each and every time "do you want to have sex"

    to say that is rape would criminalize a very large amount of the population

    if she was just standing there letting him do it but not kissing/groping him back, then "technically" that may be rape ....however i could well see why he thought she was ok with it.

    there should be different categories of rape imo, as clearly what happened there was not as bad as a man forcing himself on a woman against her will, yet they could both end up in prison for many years ....but one guy raped her with intent, and one guy did it by accident on a technicality...........
    Quite frankly, it matters jack all what your opinion of rape is. A lack of no is not consent. It's scary you don't know that. And is many others. And not just not knowing, but not understanding.
 
 
 
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