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    madness.
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    (Original post by DrawTheLine)
    No I'll keep on saying it. Not everything in this world is offensive so stop trying to make everything something to be offended by.
    ... And i dont think anybody hs time to remove "guys" when addressing to everyone from their vocabulary sooo....
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    (Original post by Kindred)
    I'm assuming this is a case of mistaken identity since there is a Good Bloke also in this discussion?
    Not at all, that is who i was addressing at the beginning of my reply to you, I failed to use the @

    But I'll chip in anyway...
    Language does have an influence on how we think and gendered language is a legitimate thing, but I don't think that "guy" is a reasonable example. It is commonly used to refer to people of either sex/ any gender and there is no significant negative connotation to saying it.
    Something like"sweetie" or "love" can easily be used in a derogatory sense and I could get behind an argument against people using those words, but guy doesn't really have that potential and certainly not in a targeted way (like sweetie is often used against women".

    The issue here is with how some people are seeing the word, not how it's used and frankly it's not at all necessary for people to change common speech for the sake of some sensitive people's emotions.
    It is entirely that some people choose to see guy as a gendered word despite common use. It's not that it is sometimes used in a derogatory was and there is confusion related to that. The most reasonable solution is for people to just stop seeing it as a gendered word when frankly it isn't.

    Language evolves and although "guy" may have previously been a gendered word it isn't now. There's no reason to cling to an old definition when all it's doing is upsetting yourself and making you see non existent harm in the word.
    Frankly I think anybody who has an issue with the word is looking for confrontation where there is none either out of insecurity or aggression.
    I agree it isn't the most obvious example, but the point is that it only isn't because we have come so used to it. But the bottom line is that it did come from guy. And no, I am neither insecure, as personally I am not affected by it, being a guy, nor am I being aggressive (maybe you disagree, feel free to tell me). I am only arguing for this because I see the point, I understand it, and I have myself started to try and use the word "guys" less. I am just questioning why there are so many broflakes here (not necessarily you bloke) who take such offence that some people might suggest using the word can have a negative impact.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    Stop using autocorrect.
    Read above.
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    I tell you what's annoying is those Youtubers where every single one of their videos is some ******* waving at you going "Hey guys!"
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    Imagine how offended people would be when they learn french has feminine and masculine nouns.
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    (Original post by Dhanny)
    I use this all the time and I can generally not give two shits about what people like you think about it.
    That’s not very nice, pudding.
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    (Original post by Mystery.)
    Imagine how offended people would be when they learn french has feminine and masculine nouns.
    I used Spanish as an example
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    (Original post by Faye__1996)
    This is a problem though. Why is it okay for 'guys' (where the singular noun of guy means an individual who identifies as a guy) to be gender neutral and 'girls' not to be (where the singular of girl means an individual who identifies as a girl)?
    Because the equivalent word would be "gals" not "girls". In my mixed gender but mostly male social group, we refer to eachother as guys, gals, bruhs, lads, ladies, lasses, princesses and occasionally by name. Language is important, which is why it becomes important to let words be gender neutral. Otherwise it's just another way of drawing a line between genders. Allowing words to be gender neutral takes away the boundaries of gender and let's people just be people.
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    Hi guys!What u up 2?
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    (Original post by Beckit)
    Because the equivalent word would be "gals" not "girls". In my mixed gender but mostly male social group, we refer to eachother as guys, gals, bruhs, lads, ladies, lasses, princesses and occasionally by name. Language is important, which is why it becomes important to let words be gender neutral. Otherwise it's just another way of drawing a line between genders. Allowing words to be gender neutral takes away the boundaries of gender and let's people just be people.

    .....Then there may as well be one gender. That is clearly not possible.
    Male and female are two different categories.

    There are no "boundaries" using gender based words. They are made up boundaries that people have invented.
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    (Original post by Mystery.)
    .....Then there may as well be one gender. That is clearly not possible.
    Male and female are two different categories.

    There are no "boundaries" using gender based words. They are made up boundaries that people have invented.
    Language is something made up that people invented. When it comes to how people treat eachother there may as well be no gender, because who cares what reproductive organs a person has unless you are planning to breed with them.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Not at all, that is who i was addressing at the beginning of my reply to you, I failed to use the @



    I agree it isn't the most obvious example, but the point is that it only isn't because we have come so used to it. But the bottom line is that it did come from guy. And no, I am neither insecure, as personally I am not affected by it, being a guy, nor am I being aggressive (maybe you disagree, feel free to tell me). I am only arguing for this because I see the point, I understand it, and I have myself started to try and use the word "guys" less. I am just questioning why there are so many broflakes here (not necessarily you bloke) who take such offence that some people might suggest using the word can have a negative impact.
    Fair enough.

    But the thing is, language is defined by it's use. We use the word "dog" to mean a four legged animal that barks so that's what it means. If we use it to describe soup then "dog" becomes the word for soup.
    Language isn't like science or maths that exists how it does regardless of what we want. Language is an entirely social construct and means whatever we want it to.
    If "guys" is being commonly as a unisex word for a group then that's what it means. It doesn't matter what it used to mean or could mean, what matters is how it is used and thus what it does mean.

    Language is our culture and people asking for us to stop expression our culture for no real reason is unreasonable.
    If "guys" did have legitimate current negative implications then fine, but it doesn't so it's changing culture for no reason.

    Sorry about that, aggressive wasn't the word I was looking for. I can't think of the right word, but what I'm looking to say is people looking for a problem or debate where there isn't one. That could be because they want to fight about stuff or could be because they are trying to be correct and appropriate.
    And by insecure I mean people who are seeing issues in innocent words because they are worried about a wider issue. That's not to imply that any wider issue isn't legitimate, but that this is not a manifestation of that issue.

    I can understand that "guy" does mean a male and I wouldn't think it appropriate to call an individual woman guy, but "guys" is used to refer to people of any sex so using it to refer to a mixed group is totally fine in my book. I am female myself and would use it to refer to a group of female friends.

    I think this speaks of a wider issue in feminism. There are a lot of currently or previously male orientated words that people have issues with because they don't include women and there's call to have female versions of those words... but why not just make it so those words are no longer male orientated? Surely it's more equal and inclusive to have a word that can refer to both men and women (or even other genders) than to have set words that refer to one or the other?

    I mean sure we could make up new words, but that's just effort. Why not include women in the current words. If you ask me that speaks far more of including than creating a new word does. Otherwise it's like creating the word "lady doctor" to make up for the male dominated field of doctors which obviously isn't at all inclusive.

    By including women in terms like "doctor" or "guys" men are allowing women to share their fields and their identities. That's pretty damn inclusive if you ask me.
    Referring to women as "guys" is changing an entire cultural concept to include and accept women.
    Frankly to me wanting it kept separate stinks of "poor little women can't cope with sharing a term with the big scary men" or "eww no! Why would we want the disgusting man word?"
    And I don't see that we're ever going to make real progress by sticking rigidly to old ways or keeping men and women separate.
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    (Original post by Truth RevoIt)
    I tell you what's annoying is those Youtubers where every single one of their videos is some ******* waving at you going "Hey guys!"
    Now that is an argument against "guys" that I can get behind!
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    (Original post by PQ)
    That’s not very nice, pudding.
    Im sowwy sir
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    this post embodies what I don't like about feminism.


    (I know not all feminists are like this and some actually fight for real equality issues)
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    My how far feminism has fallen. Years ago you were fighting for the right to vote, now you are whining about somone using a word that in context makes perfect sense but has the word Guy in it.
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    When I googled guys I got a few naked ladies, interestingly.
    They cater results to your search history.
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    (Original post by Cor395)
    this post embodies what I don't like about feminism.


    (I know not all feminists are like this and some actually fight for real equality issues)
    Great to see you can tell feminists what the real issues are.
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    (Original post by Faye__1996)
    Hi EVERYONE (not just guys...)

    Stop saying "hey guys"! Even if you mean it to be gender neutral, by definition "guy" = "a man" (Google dictionary).

    Instead, please say "Hi all", "Hi everyone" etc, etc.

    How would you feel if someone addressed a mix group (males / females / other) as "Hey girls"? Not so inclusive, I imagine. So please stop it!

    Thanks.

    you can't be serious

    and feminists wonder why feminism gets a bad name..........
 
 
 
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