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6 most common political ‘tribes’ in the UK Watch

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    What would you say are the 6 most common coherent political ideologies are in the UK?

    I would say they are (broadly speaking):

    Classical liberalism
    Social Liberalism
    Socialism
    Conservatism
    Celtic (left wing) nationalism
    British (right wing) nationalism


    I would say then that the reason the Tories have been so successful is that they have managed to form an alliance between four of these groups (both liberals, conservatives and British nationalists) . Equally the success of new labour was in forming another alliance e between these four groups (both liberals, socialists and Celtic nationalists)

    I suggest the party break down among membership would look something like this- with liberals being the least politically ‘tribal’.

    Social liberals
    55% Labour
    30% Lib Dem
    10% Tory
    5% other

    Classical Liberals
    55% Tory
    40% Lib Dem
    5% other

    Socialists
    95% Labour
    5% other

    Conservative
    85% Conservative
    15% other

    British Nationalist
    60% Conservative
    40% UKIP or other

    Celtic nationalist
    90% SNP or similar
    10 other (mostly labour)
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      > What would you say are the 6 most common coherent political ideologies are in the UK?

      Ekwality and Open Borders
      Give me free stuff
      **** the poor
      **** Europe
      **** Islam
      Sensible, level-headed centrists, who know better than to take political positions
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      im guessing your the last one
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      (Original post by FriendlyPenguin)
      > What would you say are the 6 most common coherent political ideologies are in the UK?

      Ekwality and Open Borders
      Give me free stuff
      **** the poor
      **** Europe
      **** Islam
      Sensible, level-headed centrists, who know better than to take political positions
      Equality and open borders have no significant link, I am all for certain types of equality although I would remove religion as a protected characteristic as a I believe all religions should be subject to scrutiny.

      Open borders is a complete separate issue we have had open borders since the 1960s and that's the truth, I consider mass immigration anything over 20,000 This is linked to Europe and the EU more than equality- it a matter of fact if we have a free trade deal with Europe there is zero point in leaving free trade deal means free movement to the beaurocrats despite them being two separate concepts and every other trade deal world wide having zero free movement t

      The **** Europe clan have some legitimate arguments like Europe and the EU are inflexible, we didn't have to pay to join so we don't need to pay a divorce bill. Finally the we are owed 16% of the value of the European investment bank.

      Level headed centrists have ****ed the white English working class time and time again-take the housing crisis for example- A lot of young white men,women and couples particularly from working class backgrounds can not afford a house due to the chronic shortage. My grandad purchased his house in 1979 for £11,000. My dad couldn't afford to buy a house until he did the right to buy which was finalised this year. Why do we have this problem- lack of new builds, no money for them a increased population year on year due to 250,000+ immigration, more and more British people wanting to move out increases the demand significantly, no extra supply of housing buying prices go up and rent particularly private sector rent goes through the roof
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      (Original post by Davij038)
      What would you say are the 6 most common coherent political ideologies are in the UK?

      I would say they are (broadly speaking):

      Classical liberalism
      Social Liberalism
      Socialism
      Conservatism
      Celtic (left wing) nationalism
      British (right wing) nationalism


      I would say then that the reason the Tories have been so successful is that they have managed to form an alliance between four of these groups (both liberals, conservatives and British nationalists) . Equally the success of new labour was in forming another alliance e between these four groups (both liberals, socialists and Celtic nationalists)

      I suggest the party break down among membership would look something like this- with liberals being the least politically ‘tribal’.

      Social liberals
      55% Labour
      30% Lib Dem
      10% Tory
      5% other

      Classical Liberals
      55% Tory
      40% Lib Dem
      5% other

      Socialists
      95% Labour
      5% other

      Conservative
      85% Conservative
      15% other

      British Nationalist
      60% Conservative
      40% UKIP or other

      Celtic nationalist
      90% SNP or similar
      10 other (mostly labour)
      It is very ignorant of you to British nationalists as either conservative or UKIP voters when the majority of white working class people across the Midlands and North oppose SJW beliefs
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      (Original post by FL Watch)
      It is very ignorant of you to British nationalists as either conservative or UKIP voters when the majority of white working class people across the Midlands and North oppose SJW beliefs
      Hence being generally conservative or UKIP ...
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      No wrong a lot of labour voters in the Midlands hate immigrants more so then wet Tories so you can have left wing nationalism the Nazi project being social authoritarianism. Hitler wasn't all that right wing.
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      (Original post by FL Watch)
      My grandad purchased his house in 1979 for £11,000.
      Bald figures are pointless, though.

      In 1979 I was working as a barman for 50p an hour, so weekly wage (40 hours)£20, annual £1,040. An equivalent wage today, say £7.50 per hour, , weekly £300, annual £15,600. (In fact I was working nearer 60 hours)

      In 1979 his house is 10.57 times a barman's wage, the equivalent today is a £165,000 house purchase measured via barman wages.

      The problems re house prices are not all scarcity re lower build rates, they are a combination issue re supply, increased demand to purchase (more people rented in 1979 and more social housing), increasing population, more frequent divorce so more two house families later in life, more two income families driving affordability etc and at times unrealistic expectations.

      The fact is most people buying their first house throughout my life (I bought my first in 1985 for £14,500 when I earned £4,000 p.a. ) took a deep breath and plunged, it all looked expensive, the papers were full of properties you could not consider affording so you bought something with ghastly carpets, sometimes a bit of damp, not so hot electrics and you spent years sorting it on a shoe string.

      When I got married in 1990 the large flat I had bought for £50,000 in 1989 had carpets ready for the skip, a kitchen and bathroom similar etc etc, and I spent years sorting it during evenings and weekends before selling it in 1997 for £74,500.

      My current house, bought in 1997 for £105,000 took me until about 2013 to fully refurb with vast number of hours effort to save money, this is still the case, redecorating/repairs carry on. Even now I still work evenings/weekends to earn extra money. (Accountancy/Tax work)

      Whilst not wishing to make a generalist comment, there appears to be a trend of thought that it was so much easier, well in 1991 when we had our first child, maternity pay for my wife was derisory after first few weeks, something like 90% pay for 9 weeks then a fixed amount for remainder (far more generous now), it took us ages to save enough even for a video recorder, we never went out, no money, we got no state benefits/ tax credits re nursery costs (just child benefit) when my wife returned part time to work ,interest rates rocketed in the late 1980s/early 1990s , it did not feel that easy. The only plus was that by 1992 we had paid off the HP for the car that we then kept until 1999.

      Even these days when I am hardly poorly paid after promotions and experience over the years (family income circa £70,000+£10,000) I would struggle to buy our current house at say £450,000 if starting out again.

      Maybe a little more realism that there was not a wonderful age when owning a house was so easy would be worth considering, it has always been difficult, it is now merely just a bit more difficult, it has always involved not taking holidays abroad (1994 when my daughter was born we took day trips, all we could afford), few new clothes, few meals out, pubs a distant memory, running an older car, doing all your own DIY and watching the pennies to save for a new sofa or similar.
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      (Original post by FL Watch)
      No wrong a lot of labour voters in the Midlands hate immigrants more so then wet Tories so you can have left wing nationalism the Nazi project being social authoritarianism. Hitler wasn't all that right wing.
      They are socially right wing not so much economically right wing- similar to the DUP. They are so called ‘blue labour’ and are a pretty fringe wing nowadays since Corbyn especially.
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      No, I respect that What I'm trying to say is even with inflation house prices have exceeded that because our population is around 10-12,000,000 too high.
      (Original post by DJKL)
      Bald figures are pointless, though.

      In 1979 I was working as a barman for 50p an hour, so weekly wage (40 hours)£20, annual £1,040. An equivalent wage today, say £7.50 per hour, , weekly £300, annual £15,600. (In fact I was working nearer 60 hours)

      In 1979 his house is 10.57 times a barman's wage, the equivalent today is a £165,000 house purchase measured via barman wages.

      The problems re house prices are not all scarcity re lower build rates, they are a combination issue re supply, increased demand to purchase (more people rented in 1979 and more social housing), increasing population, more frequent divorce so more two house families later in life, more two income families driving affordability etc and at times unrealistic expectations.

      The fact is most people buying their first house throughout my life (I bought my first in 1985 for £14,500 when I earned £4,000 p.a. ) took a deep breath and plunged, it all looked expensive, the papers were full of properties you could not consider affording so you bought something with ghastly carpets, sometimes a bit of damp, not so hot electrics and you spent years sorting it on a shoe string.

      When I got married in 1990 the large flat I had bought for £50,000 in 1989 had carpets ready for the skip, a kitchen and bathroom similar etc etc, and I spent years sorting it during evenings and weekends before selling it in 1997 for £74,500.

      My current house, bought in 1997 for £105,000 took me until about 2013 to fully refurb with vast number of hours effort to save money, this is still the case, redecorating/repairs carry on. Even now I still work evenings/weekends to earn extra money. (Accountancy/Tax work)

      Whilst not wishing to make a generalist comment, there appears to be a trend of thought that it was so much easier, well in 1991 when we had our first child, maternity pay for my wife was derisory after first few weeks, something like 90% pay for 9 weeks then a fixed amount for remainder (far more generous now), it took us ages to save enough even for a video recorder, we never went out, no money, we got no state benefits/ tax credits re nursery costs (just child benefit) when my wife returned part time to work ,interest rates rocketed in the late 1980s/early 1990s , it did not feel that easy. The only plus was that by 1992 we had paid off the HP for the car that we then kept until 1999.

      Even these days when I am hardly poorly paid after promotions and experience over the years (family income circa £70,000+£10,000) I would struggle to buy our current house at say £450,000 if starting out again.

      Maybe a little more realism that there was not a wonderful age when owning a house was so easy would be worth considering, it has always been difficult, it is now merely just a bit more difficult, it has always involved not taking holidays abroad (1994 when my daughter was born we took day trips, all we could afford), few new clothes, few meals out, pubs a distant memory, running an older car, doing all your own DIY and watching the pennies to save for a new sofa or similar.
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      Put it this way Labour voters who hate mass immigration either have to vote for Labour economically or vote Tory who do less to limit immigration then Labour did- In fact because Corbyn refused to put a limit on Immigration this time I voted UKIP- so what OP said is true right now but not 2 years ago
      (Original post by Davij038)
      They are socially right wing not so much economically right wing- similar to the DUP. They are so called ‘blue labour’ and are a pretty fringe wing nowadays since Corbyn especially.
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      The fact that socialism exists in the UK in 2017 is horrendous. ****ing Corbyn and his braindead followers 😂😂😂
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      (Original post by FL Watch)
      Put it this way Labour voters who hate mass immigration either have to vote for Labour economically or vote Tory who do less to limit immigration then Labour did- In fact because Corbyn refused to put a limit on Immigration this time I voted UKIP- so what OP said is true right now but not 2 years ago
      To be fair Corbyn’s just more honest than Miliband- labour is pro mass immigration (the Tories were too until Brexit and they still might be if the liberals take greater control)
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      (Original post by Davij038)
      To be fair Corbyn’s just more honest than Miliband- labour is pro mass immigration (the Tories were too until Brexit and they still might be if the liberals take greater control)
      Then the tories need to bite a bullet and take one for the team and elect UKIP who are the proper conservatives. Most people i know who vote for the tories is for immigration reasons and they let in more than anyone
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      (Original post by Davij038)
      To be fair Corbyn’s just more honest than Miliband- labour is pro mass immigration (the Tories were too until Brexit and they still might be if the liberals take greater control)
      Quite a few people on the right seem to think that the working classes are all a bunch of immigrant hating xenophobes who want to take us back to the 60s. In order to appeal to them they assume that it will merely be sufficient to take a hardline on immigration.

      It's downright patronising to assume that the 'working class' (whatever that means) are illiberal.
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      (Original post by Chaz254)
      The fact that socialism exists in the UK in 2017 is horrendous. ****ing Corbyn and his braindead followers 😂😂😂
      Or looking at it another way, the Conservatives (And New Labour before) have been so inept that they have managed to breathe life into a dead monster, and whilst in the round not sure I could ever fully embrace JC and his Merry Men (and women) there are little bits within what they say that do resonate.

      The catch for the Conservatives is they caught a whiff of the smoke but failed to act in the correct way to put out the fire, accordingly they are now likely to get very badly burned. The correct move was not a lurch to the right, that only appeased part of their own party (and not very well), the real move was to be more centrist with a cuddly side.

      Frankly the Conservatives now need a term away from government to sit on the naughty step and reinvent, however given their internal issues not sure one term will suffice.

      When they do get back into office it will likely be because Labour/Coalition have been so inept rather than because we all love New Conservative.

      Of course the big unknown is if they do hang on until Brexit arrangements agreed, and if it does transpire to be a real pile of manure they serve to the voters, well, given Brexit is not just for Christmas but for life, and some voters may be smelling the effect for a good few years re unemployment and inflation, the Conservatives may be better off cutting their losses and splitting up; because a poor Brexit deal will quickly turn public sentiment ( People may want the abstract benefits (if there are any) but they certainly will not be happy paying for them)

      Brexit could be the biggest political gamble ever seen, the Conservatives have gone all in, if works, heroes, if not, zeros.
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      (Original post by Bornblue)
      Quite a few people on the right seem to think that the working classes are all a bunch of immigrant hating xenophobes who want to take us back to the 60s. In order to appeal to them they assume that it will merely be sufficient to take a hardline on immigration.

      It's downright patronising to assume that the 'working class' (whatever that means) are illiberal.
      Just as it’s patronising to think that people are illiberal xenophobes for wanting to drastically reduce immigration 😉

      ‘Working class’: typically non degree educated WWC
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      (Original post by Davij038)
      Just as it’s patronising to think that people are illiberal xenophobes for wanting to drastically reduce immigration 😉

      ‘Working class’: typically non degree educated WWC
      Plenty of working class do go to uni and many of the ones I've met have been just as liberal and relaxed about immigration as anyone else.

      Then you have MPs like Angela Raynor who are thoroughly working class.

      Besides, those such as Farage who oppose immigration are anything but working class.
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      (Original post by Bornblue)
      Plenty of working class do go to uni and many of the ones I've met have been just as liberal and relaxed about immigration as anyone else.

      Then you have MPs like Angela Raynor who are thoroughly working class.

      The problem with the immigration debate is that it does indeed become dominated by xenophobes.
      Uni lecturers influence opinion and 80% of them admit a left wing bias, come to the midlands. My Dad and uncles used to bully them off our estate but still voted Labour.
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      (Original post by FL Watch)
      Uni lecturers influence opinion and 80% of them admit a left wing bias, come to the midlands. My Dad and uncles used to bully them off our estate but still voted Labour.

      No more so than the right wing press brainwashes and influences people on a daily basis.

      Of course academics and public sector workers tend to be more left wing. Largely because those on the right tend to chase the higher salaries in the corporate sector. Also the Tories hate the public sector. Why would public sector workers like them back?
     
     
     
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