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Do Muslim communities need to integrate more? Watch

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    Just from observation, it seems to me that the Muslim communities from Asian countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh integrate less into British society than other immigrant groups like Chinese and Europeans. But then you also see Muslims in more affluent parts of the UK integrating very well. So do you think the problem lies more with working class immigrants in general or mainly with Muslims?
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    Yes increasingly mathematical skills are becoming highly sought after in the job market
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    Define 'integration' please.

    A Pakistani Muslim friend of mine told me that his boss complained to him once that he doesn't integrate into the team. When my friend asked him for further explanation his boss said this is because he doesn't indulge in drinking when they go out for office parties. My friend said he explained to him that he does not drink for religious reasons but his boss wasn't cool with that.

    I wasn't sure who to blame when heard that story lol
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    Umm, no. I am a Muslim who lives in a white area who has majority white friends. I am also Bangladeshi and think that the integration shouldn't be one-sided - when I am in school, you see Muslims (Arab, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Somali, etc.) happily talking to others but hardly ever the other way around. People constantly make Islamaphobic jokes around me - not necessarily directed AT me- but nevertheless, it still hurts. How can we integrate when we feel uncomfortable when somebody is making a horrible 'joke' and then to fuel the fire - EVERYBODY else laughs, it is impossible. I have shaken off so many incidents and now I don't even react because I have become so hardened to it. I have tried MY best to integrate - very successfully at that, but other people who give up after being picked on, can't be blamed. if you are made to feel unwelcome, wouldn't you want to stay in a community where you are not judged on your skin colour or religion? That is why people don't mix, because of bad experiences. So there is no point bashing them for that if YOU won't do anything. Not directly targeted at OP, just a massive rant.
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    The problem does not lie mainly with Muslims. The amount of Islamaphobic abuse has increased, women are having their headscarves pulled off their heads, taxi drivers are being assaulted purely because they are called Mohammed. It is ridiculous! If you don't feel safe, why would you try and "integrate?" possibly risking your own welfare. Yeah, I am not saying Muslims don't commit crimes, every single religion and ethnic group commits crimes, but as a whole, since Brexit and Trump, we have been increasingly picked on (to put it lightly).
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    No they should differentiate but I'm going off on a tangent.
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    Just from observation, it seems to me that the Muslim communities from Asian countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh integrate less into British society than other immigrant groups like Chinese and Europeans. But then you also see Muslims in more affluent parts of the UK integrating very well. So do you think the problem lies more with working class immigrants in general or mainly with Muslims?
    Yes depends what you mean by integrate.
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      (Original post by Trapz99)
      Yes increasingly mathematical skills are becoming highly sought after in the job market
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      Where I live I feel like Muslims integrate fine, it's the Chinese that don't integrate so well. A lot of the Chinese students in Manchester seem to group with each other and blank others out, I'm not sure if it's a lack of confidence with the language or the shock of the culture, though. It'd be nice if they got more involved with people of other races so we could all mutually benefit, but I guess it's their own choice.
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      From observation I would say most cultures group together. Most cities have a China town so your observation about the Chinese is not wholly true. Jews tend to clump together in their Eurvs. But the biggest offenders are white people. We don't integrate very well either. Be it in Spain or the UK you don't see many white folks looking to move into Pakistani or Jewish areas. Also different classes stick together. And then we accuse the other lot of not integrating.... Social cohesion is the responsibility of everyone not just those we deem of being different.
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      (Original post by MartinF98)
      Just from observation, it seems to me that the Muslim communities from Asian countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh integrate less into British society than other immigrant groups like Chinese and Europeans. But then you also see Muslims in more affluent parts of the UK integrating very well. So do you think the problem lies more with working class immigrants in general or mainly with Muslims?
      People are entitled to follow their culture as long as it's not harming others. If they don't want to integrate I don't see a problem with it.

      If I moved to a Muslim country I wouldn't start taking part in all their festivals and cultural norms just for the sake of it.
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      (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
      People are entitled to follow their culture as long as it's not harming others. If they don't want to integrate I don't see a problem with it.

      If I moved to a Muslim country I wouldn't start taking part in all their festivals and cultural norms just for the sake of it.
      you would get put in prison or have your hands chopped off or something if you didnt
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      (Original post by ByEeek)
      From observation I would say most cultures group together. Most cities have a China town so your observation about the Chinese is not wholly true. Jews tend to clump together in their Eurvs. But the biggest offenders are white people. We don't integrate very well either. Be it in Spain or the UK you don't see many white folks looking to move into Pakistani or Jewish areas. Also different classes stick together. And then we accuse the other lot of not integrating.... Social cohesion is the responsibility of everyone not just those we deem of being different.
      The issue you mentioned with 'Pakistani areas' shows that Pakistanis aren't integrating enough, not British people. Britain's natives are Britons, and the Pakistanis are the community that settled here. Therefore they are the ones who are supposed to integrate into the native culture, not the other way around. The fact is that these 'Jewish areas' and 'Pakistani areas' were originally British areas, and the fact that the original immigrants and the next generation haven't integrated into native British culture is why white British people felt they had to leave.

      If Brits aren't integrating into Spanish culture in Spain then that is a real problem. It certainly pisses Spanish people off.
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      (Original post by AppleBlossom5)
      Umm, no. I am a Muslim who lives in a white area who has majority white friends. I am also Bangladeshi and think that the integration shouldn't be one-sided - when I am in school, you see Muslims (Arab, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Somali, etc.) happily talking to others but hardly ever the other way around. People constantly make Islamaphobic jokes around me - not necessarily directed AT me- but nevertheless, it still hurts. How can we integrate when we feel uncomfortable when somebody is making a horrible 'joke' and then to fuel the fire - EVERYBODY else laughs, it is impossible. I have shaken off so many incidents and now I don't even react because I have become so hardened to it. I have tried MY best to integrate - very successfully at that, but other people who give up after being picked on, can't be blamed. if you are made to feel unwelcome, wouldn't you want to stay in a community where you are not judged on your skin colour or religion? That is why people don't mix, because of bad experiences. So there is no point bashing them for that if YOU won't do anything. Not directly targeted at OP, just a massive rant.
      I feel you brother. lets end the thread here.
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      No, they don't have to live like how people tell them, they can live any way they like.
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      (Original post by serions871)
      The issue you mentioned with 'Pakistani areas' shows that Pakistanis aren't integrating enough, not British people. Britain's natives are Britons
      Really? I am British born as were my parents. My name suggests I am from Germany. My wife is British born but her mum is Italian born, raised in the UK. I had a curry today for lunch. I was served by a very nice young British born Pakistani. So when you say native, just exactly where are you drawing the line. The idea of a pure British person simply doesn't exit as we are from all over. The Angles and Saxons came from various parts of Germany. The Romans bought us Italian blood. William the Conquerer bought us a Gaulish look and the Galics have been around since the beginning of time, not to mention the Vikings and more recently colours and creeds from the whole world.

      But you have perfectly summed up the problem. Would you want to live somewhere where you were considered as one of "them" rather than one of "us"?

      I was born and raised in Yorkshire but because I came from t'other side o't dale, I was an off comed un (outsider). I could never go back to Yorkshire for this reason.

      As long as we say it is "their" problem, there is never going to integration. Only when we open our arms and welcome "them", allowing them to become one of "us" will there be true integration.

      I don't hold much hope sadly.
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      Many do, but the older generation seem to live in their own bubble, refuse to acknowledge other people and don't integrate at all, so I agree.
      We have a Chinese family who's moved in and they're so friendly and wave to us every day. We have an Indian family on the street, who were also very chatty when we met them, but there's a Muslim family that don't speak to any neighbours.
      I care for someone in a Muslim family and the mother doesn't even know English (she's lived in the country for decades) and doesn't go out or even try to learn the language and get to know other people - she doesn't even smile at you.
      They just gather in an area, take over it and alienate themselves from people and I think that's what can cause ignorance and hate. Literally every time I see a strong faith Muslim on television, actually getting involved and speaking to people outside of their religion or ethnicity, it's quite unusual, but always nice to see. But the 'religion of peace' makes out that other religions and atheists are bad people so it's not surprising.

      (Original post by MartinF98)
      Just from observation, it seems to me that the Muslim communities from Asian countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh integrate less into British society than other immigrant groups like Chinese and Europeans. But then you also see Muslims in more affluent parts of the UK integrating very well. So do you think the problem lies more with working class immigrants in general or mainly with Muslims?
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      Woops, accidentally closed this!
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      (Original post by ByEeek)
      Really? I am British born as were my parents. My name suggests I am from Germany. My wife is British born but her mum is Italian. I had a curry today for lunch. I was served by a very nice young British born Pakistani. So when you say native, just exactly where are you drawing the line. The idea of a pure British person simply doesn't exit as we are from all over. The Angles and Saxons came from various parts of Germany. The Romans bought us Italian blood. William the Conquerer bought us a Gaulish look and the Galics have been around since the beginning of time, not to mention the Vikings and more recently colours and creeds from the whole world.

      But you have perfectly summed up the problem. Would you want to live somewhere where you were considered as one of "them" rather than one of "us"?

      I was born and raised in Yorkshire but because I came from t'other side o't dale, I was an off ***'d un (outsider). I could never go back to Yorkshire for this reason.

      As long as we say it is "their" problem, there is never going to integration. Only when we open our arms and welcome "them", allowing them to become one of "us" will there be true integration.

      I don't hold much hope sadly.
      What I'm saying is not based on race but culture. Britain's natives are British people in the sense that they are people who are united by a common British culture, not race. It's a fact that Britain's culture is very different from Pakistani culture, and the Pakistanis who came here should have adopted British culture, not the other way around. The problem with these 'Pakistani areas' is that all areas should be dominated by British culture and people who have come to this country should ideally be adopting the native culture. That's not happening in a lot of areas, such as Bradford, East London and Luton. That's why white British people have left those areas, because the areas no longer are dominated by British culture, i.e. British western clothes, western attitudes, western social norms etc
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      Yes, I have noticed that they need more practice with integration. I recommend solving more problems on Riemann's integral, Lebesgue integration and Contour integration.
     
     
     
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