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Texas church attack leaves 27 dead, 20+ injured Watch

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    (Original post by adumbledoreable)
    What i find the most ironic thing about it is that all those pro gun nuts in the US always tried to argue “Mass shootings would NEVER happen in an open carry state like Texas”. WELL...
    Even worse, because the shooter was challenged by an armed member of the public, they will use that as justification for guns, seemingly oblivious to the reason why the shooter needed to be challenged in the first place!
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    Sad that you feel the need to be mocking a country when its people are suffering through one of its worst ever attacks. Incredibly badly worded
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    This is such an awful attack, people worshipping God being shot dead indiscriminately
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    I don’t really see why you lot care so much about US gun laws.

    As far as I am concerned their second amendment is pretty loopy, but it is their constitution and their democracy. They get to decide.

    None of our business. For some reason British people become hugely invested in domestic American political issues. If it isn’t gun laws it is American footballers kneeling to THEIR national anthem. Or statues commerating THEIR civil war.

    I am guilty of it myself to an extent but still wonder at our interest. It isn’t reciprocated, they know little and care less about our domestic politics.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Why not. Someone made the point that it being a place of worship was somehow more noteworthy, so someone else pointed out that it makes no difference.
    He called it ‘a place of delusion’. Now is not the time to be insulting ‘deluded’ people when they just got killed
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    I don’t really see why you lot care so much about US gun laws.

    As far as I am concerned their second amendment is pretty loopy, but it is their constitution and their democracy. They get to decide.

    None of our business. For some reason British people become hugely invested in domestic American political issues. If it isn’t gun laws it is American footballers kneeling to THEIR national anthem. Or statues commerating THEIR civil war.

    I am guilty of it myself to an extent but still wonder at our interest. It isn’t reciprocated, they know little and care less about our domestic politics.
    There are good reasons why - the US still dominates world events and also they claim that their laws apply to everyone globally, as well as ('American Exceptionalism') their values. Therefore it is quite important that we regularly assess the hypocrisy, lies and cruelty that lie behind the US capitalist system, of which this outrage is just the latest example - placing the 'interests' of gun manufacturers and their lobbyists above the lives of citizens. It's important to explore if that's how we want things to be here, which often becomes the case with things American.
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    (Original post by Ladbants)
    Sad that you feel the need to be mocking a country when its people are suffering through one of its worst ever attacks. Incredibly badly worded
    Thank goodness I'm not mocking them as you put it, but feeling both outraged and desperately sorry for them - and for their system, which enables such extreme violence and indeed even appears at times to advocate it. (If you doubt me, watch any NRA TV commercial.)
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    (Original post by Emms98)
    He called it ‘a place of delusion’. Now is not the time to be insulting ‘deluded’ people when they just got killed
    You don't see anything insulting to the victims in claiming that the owner of the place they were killed in allowed the massacre to happen, even while the victims were 'worshiping' him, but then aking that same person to help the victims after the event?

    "Delusion" is both accurate and appropriate.
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    (Original post by FarhanHalim)
    This is such an awful attack, people worshipping God being shot dead indiscriminately
    Yeah. You'd think that he would have done something to help them, especially as the victims were in the process of acting on their belief that their god listens to them and looks out for them, and the survivors often believe that they weren't killed because of god's intervention, and that he will intervene to alleviate the suffering after the event.

    I often wonder why god stands by and allows (or even causes) these massacres, yet he will take time out to change the course of events because someone has asked for help with their exams.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    I don’t really see why you lot care so much about US gun laws.

    As far as I am concerned their second amendment is pretty loopy, but it is their constitution and their democracy. They get to decide.

    None of our business. For some reason British people become hugely invested in domestic American political issues. If it isn’t gun laws it is American footballers kneeling to THEIR national anthem. Or statues commerating THEIR civil war.

    I am guilty of it myself to an extent but still wonder at our interest. It isn’t reciprocated, they know little and care less about our domestic politics.
    You seem quite heavily invested in US politics though, particularly when it comes to supporting Trump and his ilk. Perhaps we should quote this on the next thread that you create in relation to US politics. Way to deflect from criticism of their hypocrisy.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    You don't see anything insulting to the victims in claiming that the owner of the place they were killed in allowed the massacre to happen, even while the victims were 'worshiping' him, but then aking that same person to help the victims after the event?

    "Delusion" is both accurate and appropriate.
    Of course, you wouldn’t be engaging in petty theological debates just to score a few points IRL, unless you’re a typical neckbeard who lacks self-awareness and disregards common courtesy. So why is it appropriate in a thread that has nothing to do with theology?

    “Social ineptitude” is both accurate and appropriate.
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    Another one, soon it's truly part of American daily life.

    And the victims will still be dead and their loved ones still suffering once the news cycle has moved. May they Rest In Peace.
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    As far as I am concerned their second amendment is pretty loopy, but it is their constitution and their democracy. They get to decide.
    Except they don't, not really. Surprisingly for the US in particular there has been very little in the way of direct democracy around any gun control issues. And at a federal level, the NRA gun lobby has a scary amount of control over gun law.

    Public support for gun control is definitely patchy and varies hugely depending on exactly what controls you bring to the table. Background checks, for example are almost universally supported, whereas concealed carry is far more divisive. But the point is that none of these are being considered as options as there is no high-level political support for gun laws, in spite of the public's opinions on these matters. And of course in spite of the potential for saving lives and serious injury.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    Of course, you wouldn’t be engaging in petty theological debates just to score a few points IRL, unless you’re a typical neckbeard who lacks self-awareness and disregards common courtesy. So why is it appropriate in a thread that has nothing to do with theology?

    “Social ineptitude” is both accurate and appropriate.
    If you can't see the obvious connection, that's not my problem.

    It always puzzles me why some people feel the need to be self-appointed arbiters of allowed thread content.

    BTW, loving the irony of using personal insults against the person you are accusing of lacking common courtesy. Probably explains why you can't see the connection between a massacre in a church and religionists' appeals to god for help in dealing with said massacre.

    Here's an idea - if you think it is inappropriate to engage in theological debate after such an event, then don't engage in it. And I promise not to engage in any debate that I deem to be inappropriate.
    Sound fair?
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    (Original post by QE2)
    If you can't see the obvious connection, that's not my problem.

    It always puzzles me why some people feel the need to be self-appointed arbiters of allowed thread content.

    BTW, loving the irony of using personal insults against the person you are accusing of lacking common courtesy. Probably explains why you can't see the connection between a massacre in a church and religionists' appeals to god for help in dealing with said massacre.

    Here's an idea - if you think it is inappropriate to engage in theological debate after such an event, then don't engage in it. And I promise not to engage in any debate that I deem to be inappropriate.
    Sound fair?
    There’s no irony. Common courtesy allows for impolite condemnation when someone repeatedly engages in socially undesirable behaviour.

    The (in)appropriateness of your refusal to keep theological debates in the religion sub-section of this forum will be determined by the mods.

    Make a thread in the relevant section and I’m sure you’ll get numerous explanations from different perspectives as to why people pray.
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    lone wolf strikes again
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Do you not see the bitter irony in this?

    If our desire for people to avoid suffering can cause god to alter events to that end, why didn't he alter them to avoid the massacre in the first place?
    Is it simply because no one thought to ask?
    Does he have an endless stream of such tragedies planned and will only stop them if we specifically ask?

    If these tragedies are all a part of his mysterious plan and are there for a good reason beyond our understanding, then why not also the ensuing suffering? Why don't you tolerate that with the same grace that you tolerate the original massacre? Why are you asking him to alter his plans for you?

    (Original post by QE2)
    Yeah. You'd think that he would have done something to help them, especially as the victims were in the process of acting on their belief that their god listens to them and looks out for them, and the survivors often believe that they weren't killed because of god's intervention, and that he will intervene to alleviate the suffering after the event.

    I often wonder why god stands by and allows (or even causes) these massacres, yet he will take time out to change the course of events because someone has asked for help with their exams.

    I know you're desperate for a debate on religion but this thread really isn't the place.
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    (Original post by Angry Bird)
    lone wolf strikes again
    If he was a "lone wolf", then that is what he was. If he was acting in concert with or under direction from other individuals or groups, then likewise that is what he was.

    People's desire for him to be something different won't change the facts.
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    (Original post by Ninja Squirrel)
    I know you're desperate for a debate on religion but this thread really isn't the place.
    Thread about person publicly identified by media as "atheist" who "disliked religious people", massacres worshippers in church. Some posters subsequently attempt to introduce whataboutery related to Islamist terrorism while others highlight the religious element of the location.

    Yep, you're right. Absolutley no place for religion in the discussion.
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    (Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
    There’s no irony. Common courtesy allows for impolite condemnation when someone repeatedly engages in socially undesirable behaviour.
    Does it? Must have missed that memo.
    And again, you are taking it on yourself to be the arbiter of what is "socially undesirable".

    The (in)appropriateness of your refusal to keep theological debates in the religion sub-section of this forum will be determined by the mods.
    I'msure it will.

    Make a thread in the relevant section and I’m sure you’ll get numerous explanations from different perspectives as to why people pray.
    Make it yourself. I'm quite happy here, thanks all the same. This is the relevant thread to discuss issues arising from the shooting.
 
 
 
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