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Texas church attack leaves 27 dead, 20+ injured watch

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    While I am definitely for gun control, I’m afraid it’s already too late for the US to impose it. There are already so many guns in private households that, if gun control was to be imposed tomorrow, it most likely wouldn’t cover private sales. When selling a gun privately now, you’re not even required to do a background check (however most responsible gun owners still demand to do one). In this particular case the guy bought it from a gun store under false pretences and I’m rather baffled how he could get away with it ... surely the store associate/owner is to blame too because if something looked suspicious and they just waived it because ~~~profit~~~, that’s just utterly irresponsible
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    (Original post by adumbledoreable)
    While I am definitely for gun control, I’m afraid it’s already too late for the US to impose it. There are already so many guns in private households that, if gun control was to be imposed tomorrow, it most likely wouldn’t cover private sales. When selling a gun privately now, you’re not even require to do a background check (however most responsible gun owners still demand to do one). In this particular case the guy bought it from a gun store under false pretences and I’m rather baffled how he could get away with it ... surely the store associate/owner is to blame too because if something looked suspicious and they just waived it because ~~~profit~~~, that’s just utterly irresponsible
    Even more baffling is why such weapons are on sale at all. Who the **** needs a mass-killing weapon like that at home? Absolute madness.
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    (Original post by adumbledoreable)
    While I am definitely for gun control, I’m afraid it’s already too late for the US to impose it. There are already so many guns in private households that, if gun control was to be imposed tomorrow, it most likely wouldn’t cover private sales. When selling a gun privately now, you’re not even required to do a background check (however most responsible gun owners still demand to do one). In this particular case the guy bought it from a gun store under false pretences and I’m rather baffled how he could get away with it ... surely the store associate/owner is to blame too because if something looked suspicious and they just waived it because ~~~profit~~~, that’s just utterly irresponsible
    The US could do a lot to improve safety around gun ownership if they wanted to. They might never get the peaceful transition that Australia managed, but that doesn't mean progress cannot be made.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Actually he couldn't legally buy it. He only received a bad conduct discharge rather than a full dishonourable discharge so he isn't precluded there, just. He was only done for assault rather than domestic violence, so he's just fine there. Now here's the kicker, while he only got 12 months so falls a day short of the "over a year" in USC 922(g) the maximum penalty was over a year which means he made a false declaration and the sale wasn't legal.
    So more stringent background checks would have helped.
    Shame that the gun lobby keeps insisting that any further controls will not help prevent such massacres.
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    (Original post by adumbledoreable)
    While I am definitely for gun control, I’m afraid it’s already too late for the US to impose it. There are already so many guns in private households that, if gun control was to be imposed tomorrow, it most likely wouldn’t cover private sales. When selling a gun privately now, you’re not even required to do a background check (however most responsible gun owners still demand to do one). In this particular case the guy bought it from a gun store under false pretences and I’m rather baffled how he could get away with it ... surely the store associate/owner is to blame too because if something looked suspicious and they just waived it because ~~~profit~~~, that’s just utterly irresponsible
    I don't understand the argument that there's no point in imposing stricter gun controls because A) there are already a lot of guns in circulation, and B) they would not go far enough.

    Imposition of stricter controls would reduce the number of guns entering circulation, so with natural wastage, the total number of legal guns in circulation would decline. And as most illegal guns start as legally held ones, their number would drop as well.

    Simply make controls apply to private sales as well as shops and shows.

    "Some people will object and others will ignore" is not a reason for not enacting and enforcing laws.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I don't understand the argument that there's no point in imposing stricter gun controls because A) there are already a lot of guns in circulation, and B) they would not go far enough.

    Imposition of stricter controls would reduce the number of guns entering circulation, so with natural wastage, the total number of legal guns in circulation would decline. And as most illegal guns start as legally held ones, their number would drop as well.

    Simply make controls apply to private sales as well as shops and shows.

    "Some people will object and others will ignore" is not a reason for not enacting and enforcing laws.
    Gun control would definitely help prevent some mass shootings as most of these mass shootings occur with legally purchased guns. Gun control in America is a serious problem and I can't understand some people who claim it isn't guns that is the problem. Mental health is part to play but the ease of buying a gun makes the problem far worse.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    All I’ve seen as a description is the guy was white, how do we know his motives or religion?

    I’d say it’s unlikely he is a Christian as he just shot 50 of them on purpose as his chosen victims
    He taught bible class.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So more stringent background checks would have helped.
    Shame that the gun lobby keeps insisting that any further controls will not help prevent such massacres.
    Somebody ****ed up somewhere because he lied on the paperwork that is used as part of the background check and his crimes will be on federal records and thus accessible. He lied on the paperwork and the checks failed because nobody picked it up.
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    He taught bible class.
    He taught bible class in 2013, and people can do so to earn money or to upgrade their CV as volunteering, or that just means that he was previously a Christian. Whey was he liking atheist pages on Facebook and why did multiple people who knew him say that he claimed Christians were stupid? It's clear he's not a Christian.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a8040866.html
    "Hemant Mehta runs the Friendly Atheist page, one of the handful that was liked by Kelley and has since been blamed by those accounts."
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    There are good reasons why - the US still dominates world events and also they claim that their laws apply to everyone globally, as well as ('American Exceptionalism' their values. Therefore it is quite important that we regularly assess the hypocrisy, lies and cruelty that lie behind the US capitalist system, of which this outrage is just the latest example - placing the 'interests' of gun manufacturers and their lobbyists above the lives of citizens. It's important to explore if that's how we want things to be here, which often becomes the case with things American.
    That’s fine but you are diminishing the likelihood that there will be any meaningful change every time you open your mouth. Americans like their guns, and they like their right to bear them even more. The more the American left talks about “ gun control” the fiercer they cleave to that constitutional right. It has the reverse effect to that intended.

    As for a foreigner like you, the idea that that they will treat anything you say with other than contempt is riddiculous. They don’t give a damn what you think.

    You can what you like about the issue, obviously, but it does reveal how little you know of the country.
    You seem to believe that the whole nation is one great big north east liberal arts college campus.

    It isn’t. How do you think they ended up with Trump??
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    (Original post by astutehirstute)
    That’s fine but you are diminishing the likelihood that there will be any meaningful change every time you open your mouth. Americans like their guns, and they like their right to bear them even more. The more the American left talks about “ gun control” the fiercer they cleave to that constitutional right. It has the reverse effect to that intended.

    As for a foreigner like you, the idea that that they will treat anything you say with other than contempt is riddiculous. They don’t give a damn what you think.

    You can what you like about the issue, obviously, but it does reveal how little you know of the country.
    You seem to believe that the whole nation is one great big north east liberal arts college campus.

    It isn’t. How do you think they ended up with Trump??
    In fact, majority public opinion in the US is in favour of stricter gun controls. It is the gun industry lobbyists who dominated the agenda of Congress, but that has little to do with popular views and everything to do with the corrupt peddling for votes that now is the reality of US elected officials. The gun lobby prefer profits to the lives of children.
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    Pretty shocking what atheists say on twitter

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    He looks like a meth addict
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    Oh look, Trump was right again

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-c...-wife-stepson/

    That means he was not only banned from buying guns under USC 922 (g) (1) and USC 922 (g) (4) too
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    (Original post by QE2)
    What an odd thing to say.
    I'm sorry that you see it that way but I do feel that some people have absolutely no idea who Jesus was or what his life was like.

    I feel people sprout off things against Christians without doing their homework about Jesus character.

    I hope by being so 'odd' this person will investigate Jesus and see how he lived, and how being a Christian and following his example could not possibly mean that a Christian does anything but good for the people in the world.

    Anyone who lives a life different to Jesus' example can't be a Christian, in the true sense, even though they call themselves that.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Oh look, Trump was right again

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-c...-wife-stepson/

    That means he was not only banned from buying guns under USC 922 (g) (1) and USC 922 (g) (4) too
    The issue isn't that he shouldn't have been able to buy an AR-15 - it's that everyone shouldn't be allowed to buy one.

    Most mass shootings are carried out with legally held guns, so I really don't see what your point is.
    All this shows is that existing gun controls are not effective enough.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    The issue isn't that he shouldn't have been able to buy an AR-15 - it's that everyone shouldn't be allowed to buy one.

    Most mass shootings are carried out with legally held guns, so I really don't see what your point is.
    All this shows is that existing gun controls are not effective enough.
    One country where gun control had a statistically significant effect on crime please.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    One country where gun control had a statistically significant effect on crime please.
    Meaningless argument. The issue is whether strict gun controls lead to fewer shootings, not a "reduction in crime".
    "Ooh look, this country with strict gun controls has 20 times fewer fatal shootings than the US, but there is more benefit fraud - so gun contol doesn't work!"

    So, name one country with easy public access to guns which has a lower than average rate of death by shooting, and name a country with strict gun controls and a higher than average rate of death by shooting.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    Meaningless argument. The issue is whether strict gun controls lead to fewer shootings, not a "reduction in crime".
    "Ooh look, this country with strict gun controls has 20 times fewer fatal shootings than the US, but there is more benefit fraud - so gun contol doesn't work!"

    So, name one country with easy public access to guns which has a lower than average rate of death by shooting, and name a country with strict gun controls and a higher than average rate of death by shooting.
    You're narrowing the parameters to ones that suit gun control because there aren't any cases (certainly that I've come across) where gun controls lead to reduces homicides or violent crime in general.

    As for your question I'll give Austria and Jamaica, although I guess you're going to say too strict and not strict enough respectively

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You're narrowing the parameters to ones that suit gun control because there aren't any cases (certainly that I've come across) where gun controls lead to reduces homicides or violent crime in general.
    The argument is that the almost uncontrolled access to and widespread ownership of guns in the US is a major contributary factor ti the high levels of gun deaths in the US. It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

    As for your question I'll give Austria and Jamaica, although I guess you're going to say too strict and not strict enough respectively
    Austria hasn't got gun controls anywhere near as loose as the US. Proportional gun ownership is less than a third that of the US, and Austria's gun homicide rate is twice that of the UK. So what Austria shows is that slightly more relaxed and higher gun ownership leads to slightly higher gun homicide rates.
    Thanks for the example!

    Jamaica is a bit of an outlier due to the nature of society, crime and politics there, but it does indeed have reasonably strict gun control and high homicide rates - although 70% of the murders are gang related rather than random or domestic..
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    (Original post by QE2)
    The issue isn't that he shouldn't have been able to buy an AR-15 - it's that everyone shouldn't be allowed to buy one.

    Most mass shootings are carried out with legally held guns, so I really don't see what your point is.
    All this shows is that existing gun controls are not effective enough.
    Why shouldn't normal people be allowed to buy one? I feel as long as there are laws to stop mentally ill people or those with a criminal record or a track record of bad behaviour from buying them, it should be fine. I don't see why a normal, law abiding person shouldn't be allowed to just buy an AR-15 if that's what they want.
 
 
 

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