Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

US church shooter was ‘creepy atheist” who disliked religious people Watch

    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SCIENCE :D)
    A look at their browser history would usually complete the story.
    It is interesting. Wouldn't a person who is loopy and who wants to cause destruction, such as the Las Vegas Shooter, look to make their killing purposeful and meaningful. Sometimes they blame the Government or their family, often this is the true cause of their disposition but other times it is merely an enabling "thought" that permits them to do the act they always wanted to do.

    If you are a Muslim, and you have a loopy mind that means you want to kill people, would not automatically appeal to Islam to give you that meaning? But then if you have decided you are going to kill a lot of people or you had the mind that predisposes you to kill a lot of people, isn't the appeal to Islam superficial? As in, they were not really doing it for Islam. Are such people true terrorists and how do you distinguish them from the true terrorists?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
    It is interesting. Wouldn't a person who is loopy and who wants to cause destruction, such as the Las Vegas Shooter, look to make their killing purposeful and meaningful. Sometimes they blame the Government or their family, often this is the true cause of their disposition but other times it is merely an enabling "thought" that permits them to do the act they always wanted to do.

    If you are a Muslim, and you have a loopy mind that means you want to kill people, would not automatically appeal to Islam to give you that meaning? But then if you have decided you are going to kill a lot of people or you had the mind that predisposes you to kill a lot of people, isn't the appeal to Islam superficial? As in, they were not really doing it for Islam. Are such people true terrorists and how do you distinguish them from the true terrorists?
    A lot of the time, "Muslim terrorists" are actually merely the vulnerable dupes of the genuine Islamist terrorists. It is entirely possible that they have no real understanding of the motivations and justifications used by their controllers. They have just been told that what they are doing is their duty as a "good Muslim" and they will receive a great reward for their actions.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by QE2)
    A lot of the time, "Muslim terrorists" are actually merely the vulnerable dupes of the genuine Islamist terrorists. It is entirely possible that they have no real understanding of the motivations and justifications used by their controllers. They have just been told that what they are doing is their duty as a "good Muslim" and they will receive a great reward for their actions.
    That is true, but still often these are cognisant people who have no previous history of violence. Hence, it is easier although not particularly true to say they died in furtherance of a cause. Most often they do it because they have no other choice; they have gone too far down the rabbit hole to back out. However, I am talking about people even less involved than those dupes. Take Khalid Masood for example, an angry person predisposed to violence who appealed to Islam to justify his attack.

    It is quite possible he was committed to killing many people, and earning himself infamy, without the shroud of Islamism. Therefore, it is very difficult to say, in such a case, that his acts were motivated by terrorism. Maybe this church shooting tells us we need to question people's backgrounds and mental health before saying they were terrorists, rather than simply assuming they are because they are Muslim and say they committed their violent acts for the caliphate.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by raganosio)
    and the news do not call it a terrorist attack... Just a problem of mental illness
    There is a precise definition of terrorism and it has nothing to do with discrimination. If he only wanted to kill people it's not terrorism.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    CIA owned media spinning another yarn. Nearly all news media is fiction.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by math42)
    I do love a false equivalency. While I don't think it is the duty of any given Muslim to condemn any given Islamic attack, Islam literally has a set textbook for its adherents. Many interpret it differently, but its followers in general share many beliefs and engage in many of the same practices. Atheism is not a religion or an ideology or even a movement really; the only thing its followers generally have in common is that they don't believe in a god.

    In any case, obviously I condemn it, because I'm not bats**t insane...
    Exactly! Atheism is a lack of ideology, unlike Muslims who can be grouped together for at least following the same principles and same God, you are simply unable to group atheists together because although atheists may be mutual in the fact that they believe in no God, their moralities and principles differ widely for every individual and is based primarily on where they were brought up
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FarhanHalim)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-atheism.html

    So can all atheists please condemn this atheist terror attack?
    what's your point? As an atheist myself i condemn anyone who terrorises regardless of their beliefs. Just because an atheist caused a terror attack doesn't make it any less horrific. You're being childish
    • Study Helper
    Online

    21
    ReputationRep:
    Tragic and senseless waste of life as with all mass killings and acts of terrorism.
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FarhanHalim)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-atheism.html

    So can all atheists please condemn this atheist terror attack?
    #NotAllAtheists. Oh actually, I don't agree with what he did so I ABSOLUTELY AND UNRESERVEDLY condemn this mindless violence as I do in all cases of mindless violence - it's called a principle. But the left wing particularly (not arguing you are, making a wider point) could learn something from all this and perhaps they too should condemn the violence on their side as they roundly failed to do with BLM and Antifa.

    Incidentally atheism is the organisation that follows the joint tenants of er...oh yeah. Nothing. There is no 'holy book' of atheism, no principles under which this is justifiable so this comparison is (a) fallacious, and (b) not even equiviocal. It's merely a catch all term for those who reject the idea of God. You may as well say he ate in McDonalds once so can all people who ate McDonalds ever condemn him - there is nothing tying the group to the individual in a way that requires the group to condemn him as in substantive in his motives as athiests can disagree on literally everything except the fact they don't accept the idea of God.
    Online

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SCIENCE :D)
    Depends on his motive, Islamic terrorism is ususally pretty obvious, the terrorists usually shout out Religious lines whilst carrying out the attack, or leave passages of the Qu'ran in certain locations for the police to find. That is the point they want people to know their motive.
    Atheists could shout out their own catchphrases.... "see how open minded and undogmatic i am"

    "i have the right to choose"

    "see if your imaginary friend can stop these bullets"

    and they could leave copies of The God Delusion at the scene

    :rolleyes:

    smh
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FarhanHalim)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-atheism.html

    So can all atheists please condemn this atheist terror attack?
    of course i would condemn, but i wont do it out of feelings of obligation
    Online

    6
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    #NotAllAtheists. Oh actually, I don't agree with what he did so I ABSOLUTELY AND UNRESERVEDLY condemn this mindless violence as I do in all cases of mindless violence - it's called a principle. But the left wing particularly (not arguing you are, making a wider point) could learn something from all this and perhaps they too should condemn the violence on their side as they roundly failed to do with BLM and Antifa.

    Incidentally atheism is the organisation that follows the joint tenants of er...oh yeah. Nothing. There is no 'holy book' of atheism, no principles under which this is justifiable so this comparison is (a) fallacious, and (b) not even equiviocal. It's merely a catch all term for those who reject the idea of God. You may as well say he ate in McDonalds once so can all people who ate McDonalds ever condemn him - there is nothing tying the group to the individual in a way that requires the group to condemn him as in substantive in his motives as athiests can disagree on literally everything except the fact they don't accept the idea of God.
    did you unironically compare a mass shooting with antifa omfg
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by GonvilleBromhead)
    #NotAllAtheists. Oh actually, I don't agree with what he did so I ABSOLUTELY AND UNRESERVEDLY condemn this mindless violence as I do in all cases of mindless violence - it's called a principle. But the left wing particularly (not arguing you are, making a wider point) could learn something from all this and perhaps they too should condemn the violence on their side as they roundly failed to do with BLM and Antifa.

    Incidentally atheism is the organisation that follows the joint tenants of er...oh yeah. Nothing. There is no 'holy book' of atheism, no principles under which this is justifiable so this comparison is (a) fallacious, and (b) not even equiviocal. It's merely a catch all term for those who reject the idea of God. You may as well say he ate in McDonalds once so can all people who ate McDonalds ever condemn him - there is nothing tying the group to the individual in a way that requires the group to condemn him as in substantive in his motives as athiests can disagree on literally everything except the fact they don't accept the idea of God.
    Yet if he were in a group dedicated to abstaining from McDonald's and he subsequently shot up a McDonald's, you'd question the relationship between the act and his McDonald's non-belief, even though there is no semantic content in not eating a McDonald's other than you do not eat at McDonald's. For that person, however, you would see that McDonald's non-belief had a greater meaning and was indeed determinative of the act.
    Offline

    7
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FarhanHalim)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-atheism.html

    So can all atheists please condemn this atheist terror attack?

    He was a nut job.

    The end .
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
    Yet if he were in a group dedicated to abstaining from McDonald's and he subsequently shot up a McDonald's, you'd question the relationship between the act and his McDonald's non-belief, even though there is no semantic content in not eating a McDonald's other than you do not eat at McDonald's. For that person, however, you would see that McDonald's non-belief had a greater meaning and was indeed determinative of the act.
    So that is what crap written down looks like.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Maker)
    So that is what crap written down looks like.
    So there's where me granda's jokes went to.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by the bear)
    Atheists could shout out their own catchphrases.... "see how open minded and undogmatic i am"
    Atheists can be as close-minded and dogmatic as religionists. They just can't believe in gods.

    "i have the right to choose"
    Atheists can support authoritarian dictatorship and the removal of individual liberties. They just can't believe in gods.

    "see if your imaginary friend can stop these bullets"
    Atheists can have imaginary friends. They just can't believe in gods. (Yeah, I know it's stretching it a bit, but strictly true)

    and they could leave copies of The God Delusion at the scene
    There are atheists who dislike The God Delusion and Dawkins.

    See how it works now?
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by FarhanHalim)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...d-atheism.html

    So can all atheists please condemn this atheist terror attack?
    I condemn it without reservation. Why wouldn't I? I have no sympathy for such violence.

    The fact you believed atheists wouldn't is presumably because you wouldn't condemn in the same situation. That speaks volumes about your sympathies vis-a-vis Islamist terror
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    No, atheism is just a lack of belief in a higher power rather than a religion. I see no reason to condemn atrocities committed by those who are also atheist in the same sense that I see no reason to condemn atrocities committed by people who have brown hair. It is just something I have in common, not something I actively follow.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Saunders16)
    I see no reason to condemn atrocities committed by those who are also atheist in the same sense that I see no reason to condemn atrocities committed by people who have brown hair. It is just something I have in common, not something I actively follow.
    You can condemn something without having any responsibility or connection of any sort.

    Condemning something is just saying that you think it is wrong and that you disapprove.

    I condemn all acts of violence against non-combatants, regardless of the perpetrator, victim, or justification. Why wouldn't everyone? It's the only reasonable response.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: November 15, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.