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BA Law with Senior Status at Oxford, or GDL/CPE at College of Law/BPP ?
Hi, just wondering if anyone in the know has any advice for me. I have a tough decision to make!
I am in my final year at the University of York studying PPE (Philosophy, Politics and Economics), and I'm expecting to get a First (or high 2.1). I want to qualify as a solicitor and work for either a Magic Circle firm, or a US firm in London. Clearly the conventional route would be to do a law conversion course and then the LPC. However I have an offer from Oxford to study their BA law degree with Senior Status (i.e. 2 years rather than 3) and I could then do the LPC. So, which option should I take?
Some of my current thoughts:
Cost: At Oxford I'd have to pay fees of approx £8K each year (though I can just about find the money for it). GDL has similar fees but is only for one year and I can apply for TC's and get sponsorship (I don't think a law firm would sponser the Oxford degree...). Doing the degree would obviously mean an extra year, which is one year's lost earnings.
Benefit: Seems to me that York has a great reputation and I'd still be able to get a job at a MC firm (a friend of mine has just done that). But Oxford clearly has a better reputation, and would improve my chances, especially at a US firm.
Advice would be appreciated!
Cheers.
I am in my final year at the University of York studying PPE (Philosophy, Politics and Economics), and I'm expecting to get a First (or high 2.1). I want to qualify as a solicitor and work for either a Magic Circle firm, or a US firm in London. Clearly the conventional route would be to do a law conversion course and then the LPC. However I have an offer from Oxford to study their BA law degree with Senior Status (i.e. 2 years rather than 3) and I could then do the LPC. So, which option should I take?
Some of my current thoughts:
Cost: At Oxford I'd have to pay fees of approx £8K each year (though I can just about find the money for it). GDL has similar fees but is only for one year and I can apply for TC's and get sponsorship (I don't think a law firm would sponser the Oxford degree...). Doing the degree would obviously mean an extra year, which is one year's lost earnings.
Benefit: Seems to me that York has a great reputation and I'd still be able to get a job at a MC firm (a friend of mine has just done that). But Oxford clearly has a better reputation, and would improve my chances, especially at a US firm.
Advice would be appreciated!
Cheers.
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I'd definitely go for oxford. First, it clearly wins you points on the reputation front and, wrongly or rightly, this matters in law more than it might do in other careers. Second, if you ever decided to move away from the UK Oxford will gain you far more recognition internationally than York + CoL/BPP. Third, going to oxford will be a unique experience that will not become available to you again. I'd be inclined to look at things this way though; there is a chance that, in the future, you'd regret not taking the opportunity to go to one of the best universities in the world. I don't think the same can be said about doing a conversion course at BPP/CoL in London.
mate if ur on a high 2.1/1st doin ppe at york i dont think it matters to be honest, as long as ur applications are good. I'd look at it more like do u wanna study for 3 more years rather than 2 without sponsorship?
the law with senior status is by no means necessary and is not likely to make you a better lawyer.
if you believe, however, that having oxford on your cv will make you more of an attractive candidate to law firms, then go for it. but top grades from a top uni like york will be enough to get you into almost any firm.
one other thing... getting a first/high 2:1 in history at york would indicate that you're good enough to excel in a law course at oxford. BUT... whilst the GDL is designed to give you a concise yet informative grounding in law in the space of one year, the oxford degree is extremely rigorous consisting of three years work crammed into two years. if, for whatever reason, you were to struggle with it and obtain a low 2:1 or even lower, you might have taken one step forward but two steps back. not that this should happen, but it's definitely a risk of some sort.
if you believe, however, that having oxford on your cv will make you more of an attractive candidate to law firms, then go for it. but top grades from a top uni like york will be enough to get you into almost any firm.
one other thing... getting a first/high 2:1 in history at york would indicate that you're good enough to excel in a law course at oxford. BUT... whilst the GDL is designed to give you a concise yet informative grounding in law in the space of one year, the oxford degree is extremely rigorous consisting of three years work crammed into two years. if, for whatever reason, you were to struggle with it and obtain a low 2:1 or even lower, you might have taken one step forward but two steps back. not that this should happen, but it's definitely a risk of some sort.
A LLB Law degree is a qualifying law degree which Oxford, along with many others, offer. A BA, unless the law society consider otherwise by virtue of its content/modules taken, is not a qualifying law degree.
Before you do anything, make sure you check that by going to Oxford to do a BA you are not shooting yourself in the foot and end up still having to do the GDL.
Before you do anything, make sure you check that by going to Oxford to do a BA you are not shooting yourself in the foot and end up still having to do the GDL.
silence
the law with senior status is by no means necessary and is not likely to make you a better lawyer.
if you believe, however, that having oxford on your cv will make you more of an attractive candidate to law firms, then go for it. but top grades from a top uni like york will be enough to get you into almost any firm.
one other thing... getting a first/high 2:1 in history at york would indicate that you're good enough to excel in a law course at oxford. BUT... whilst the GDL is designed to give you a concise yet informative grounding in law in the space of one year, the oxford degree is extremely rigorous consisting of three years work crammed into two years. if, for whatever reason, you were to struggle with it and obtain a low 2:1 or even lower, you might have taken one step forward but two steps back. not that this should happen, but it's definitely a risk of some sort.
if you believe, however, that having oxford on your cv will make you more of an attractive candidate to law firms, then go for it. but top grades from a top uni like york will be enough to get you into almost any firm.
one other thing... getting a first/high 2:1 in history at york would indicate that you're good enough to excel in a law course at oxford. BUT... whilst the GDL is designed to give you a concise yet informative grounding in law in the space of one year, the oxford degree is extremely rigorous consisting of three years work crammed into two years. if, for whatever reason, you were to struggle with it and obtain a low 2:1 or even lower, you might have taken one step forward but two steps back. not that this should happen, but it's definitely a risk of some sort.
True.
HollyG85
A LLB Law degree is a qualifying law degree which Oxford, along with many others, offer. A BA, unless the law society consider otherwise by virtue of its content/modules taken, is not a qualifying law degree.
Before you do anything, make sure you check that by going to Oxford to do a BA you are not shooting yourself in the foot and end up still having to do the GDL.
Before you do anything, make sure you check that by going to Oxford to do a BA you are not shooting yourself in the foot and end up still having to do the GDL.
Well, that was easy.
HollyG85
A LLB Law degree is a qualifying law degree which Oxford, along with many others, offer.
Oxford don't offer an LLB Law degree, they only offer BA Jurisprudence at undergraduate level, and evidently BA Law wit Senior Status. It is for all intents and purposes the same thing, but traditionally Oxford only award BAs.
All Oxbridge first law degrees are BA’s. Whenever you see LLB Oxford on a CV you should become immediately suspicious. Oxford does not, and has not offered that degree. A Cambridge LLB is however the old name for the Cambridge LLM; Oxford retains the BCL designation. The senior status BA is a qualifying law degree provided you take the exempting subjects, as is the Cambridge Affiliated BA.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I was thinking I'd go to Oxford, but wanted to see if anyone thought I was doing something really stupid - seems not! Juneau, I pretty much agree with what you've said.
Silence, a good and fair point about the possibility of not doing so well at Oxford, but I'm confident I can get at least a 2.1 (with some hard work!). Also, you mentioned you spoke to a MC partner who did the same degree; did the partner say anything else about it that you've not already mentioned?
As for the degree, provided you do the core modules, it will be a qualifying law degree (it's specifically listed on the law society website) and I definitely won't have to do the GDL.
Just one other thing, I've asked the advice of a couple of my friends who've done law degrees, not at Oxbridge, and they initially assumed that I wanted to do the degree so as to avoid doing the GDL because the GDL's so intense. By all accounts, they're both very intensive, and I never thought about that aspect when I applied. But, do you think people could view my intentions as such, and that not doing the GDL could weaken my CV?
Thanks again!
Silence, a good and fair point about the possibility of not doing so well at Oxford, but I'm confident I can get at least a 2.1 (with some hard work!). Also, you mentioned you spoke to a MC partner who did the same degree; did the partner say anything else about it that you've not already mentioned?
As for the degree, provided you do the core modules, it will be a qualifying law degree (it's specifically listed on the law society website) and I definitely won't have to do the GDL.
Just one other thing, I've asked the advice of a couple of my friends who've done law degrees, not at Oxbridge, and they initially assumed that I wanted to do the degree so as to avoid doing the GDL because the GDL's so intense. By all accounts, they're both very intensive, and I never thought about that aspect when I applied. But, do you think people could view my intentions as such, and that not doing the GDL could weaken my CV?
Thanks again!
going to oxford, whatever the qualification, couldn't make your application weaker than if you did the GDL somewhere. to get onto a GDL course, you have to have minimum grades of something like CCC at A level and be on course for at least a 2:2. and be able to pay for it somehow. obviously getting a place at oxford puts you in a different league. not wishing to rush something is more indicative of your desire to learn things in more detail (during what will still be an intense course) rather than your desire to avoid academic intensity.
the partner i spoke to said it was a great way of exploring the law in more detail than the GDL would have allowed him to go into. i decided not to apply for a senior status because of financial constraints (and i'm keen to get a salaray asap), but this decision was equally welcomed by the guy. he seemed to suggest that there was no benefit or disadvantage of doing either; it really is a case of how much detail you want to go into.
plus, the point which is beyond debate but few people (espeically those within the law profession, from HR to partners) wish to say: oxbridge on your cv is definitely some form of passport into the city, as long as you have sufficient academic abilities and the rest.
the partner i spoke to said it was a great way of exploring the law in more detail than the GDL would have allowed him to go into. i decided not to apply for a senior status because of financial constraints (and i'm keen to get a salaray asap), but this decision was equally welcomed by the guy. he seemed to suggest that there was no benefit or disadvantage of doing either; it really is a case of how much detail you want to go into.
plus, the point which is beyond debate but few people (espeically those within the law profession, from HR to partners) wish to say: oxbridge on your cv is definitely some form of passport into the city, as long as you have sufficient academic abilities and the rest.
Just to point out: a degree isn't a qualifying law degree (for vocational purposes) merely be being an LLB. The type of degree tells you nothing about whether it is 'qualifying'. It is only a qualifying degree if you study the seven modules required by the Law Society (Property/Land, Contract, Trusts/Equity, Crime, Constitutional/Public, European, Tort). So make sure you study these modules should you intend to practice!
Darvo
Hi, just wondering if anyone in the know has any advice for me. I have a tough decision to make!
I am in my final year at the University of York studying PPE (Philosophy, Politics and Economics), and I'm expecting to get a First (or high 2.1). I want to qualify as a solicitor and work for either a Magic Circle firm, or a US firm in London. Clearly the conventional route would be to do a law conversion course and then the LPC. However I have an offer from Oxford to study their BA law degree with Senior Status (i.e. 2 years rather than 3) and I could then do the LPC. So, which option should I take?
Some of my current thoughts:
Cost: At Oxford I'd have to pay fees of approx £8K each year (though I can just about find the money for it). GDL has similar fees but is only for one year and I can apply for TC's and get sponsorship (I don't think a law firm would sponser the Oxford degree...). Doing the degree would obviously mean an extra year, which is one year's lost earnings.
Benefit: Seems to me that York has a great reputation and I'd still be able to get a job at a MC firm (a friend of mine has just done that). But Oxford clearly has a better reputation, and would improve my chances, especially at a US firm.
Advice would be appreciated!
Cheers.
I am in my final year at the University of York studying PPE (Philosophy, Politics and Economics), and I'm expecting to get a First (or high 2.1). I want to qualify as a solicitor and work for either a Magic Circle firm, or a US firm in London. Clearly the conventional route would be to do a law conversion course and then the LPC. However I have an offer from Oxford to study their BA law degree with Senior Status (i.e. 2 years rather than 3) and I could then do the LPC. So, which option should I take?
Some of my current thoughts:
Cost: At Oxford I'd have to pay fees of approx £8K each year (though I can just about find the money for it). GDL has similar fees but is only for one year and I can apply for TC's and get sponsorship (I don't think a law firm would sponser the Oxford degree...). Doing the degree would obviously mean an extra year, which is one year's lost earnings.
Benefit: Seems to me that York has a great reputation and I'd still be able to get a job at a MC firm (a friend of mine has just done that). But Oxford clearly has a better reputation, and would improve my chances, especially at a US firm.
Advice would be appreciated!
Cheers.
have you done any vacation schemes yet? at your stage, vacation schemes at the type of firms you want to work for are more important.
silence
whilst firms would let you apply for a vac scheme now (and there'd be no harm in doing one), though if there are two years of undergraduate-type study ahead, then there will be time during the oxford degree to fit a few weeks of vac schemes in.
well, if he has already completed some vac schemes, then he should choose the CPE over the 2-year BA. if not, choose the 2-year BA.
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