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MXX - Motion of No Confidence in the Government Watch

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    (Original post by Jacob E)
    No, the first point raised in this MoNC are not points supporting a vote of no confidence because there is nothing stating coalition should finalise negotiations before forming the government. And given that a Labour-Liberal coalition would be bigger than the other coalitions proposed, there is no other coalition to replace this government, the outcome of this MoNC would be an early election.
    There's no reason why a Lab-Lib coalition, being different to the current coalition, could not form on a caretaker basis to see out the term.

    (Original post by Scisaac)
    How does one go about joining the MHoC?
    Normally you join a party, which you can apply to do here. Otherwise you can just start commenting on any of the open bills in the MHoC forum.
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    It has now been brought to my attention that not one bit two seconders did not consent
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    The proposers talk about competency but have proven themselves to be anything but with this pathetic excuse for a Motion of No Confidence. I suggest the gentlemen withdraw this not only because it's genuinely poorly justified but an insult to their capabilities and an embarresment unto themselves.
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    (Original post by CoffeeGeek)
    Although the show hasn't been beautiful we are constantly working on our relations between the Libbers.



    If they didn't have one for LabSoc then perhaps I'm mistaken on that point but halfway through the term isn't exactly convenient or timely.



    I think it definitely is grounds for a MoNC if the Government isn't able to turn up to a vote in the lobby because their members are lazy. Triggering three consecutive by-elections is not something to be proud of and it is even more of an embarrassment when it's from cabinet members.



    I was careful with the wording for this reason. The motion never says that there were no statements from the Great Offices of State. It says that there were no Statements of Intent from the Great Offices of State, which is quite different. SoIs have been small in number and we haven't seen many recently. We shouldn't have to wait when the term is nearing an end to be able to know what the Government's economic agenda is. Of course they take time but it shouldn't take this long to produce an economic agenda should it?

    Why should we have to wait so long for bill output to start picking up? And why does it always seem to be from the same members and party?



    They were more active, especially at the start where in comparison this Government was not. They even managed to produce a Budget, near the end of the term. What's the point in producing economic agenda towards the end of the term when it doesn't really matter?



    If you read the whole point it was actually pointing out how this Government relies on a small number of members and Opposition parties to produce motions to create some output.



    Surprised



    Don't act like that's the only alternative to this Government.
    I really can't be bothered to stick quotes around all of this so you're going to have to read it all in one paragraph

    "Working on your relations" isn't good enough for an "Alternative Government".

    They haven't had them for Goverment's previous either, it only happened on my own insistence and LP being kind enough to agree to a policy agreement.

    We've already said our voting record hasn't been good enough and we're taking steps to improve it. The Liberals for example have 100% voting since we lost Conceited's seat a few days ago.

    If you wanted to know the Government's economic agenda why haven't you been constantly asking the Chancellor questions in the Ask the Government thread? I'm sure he's happy to talk policy at any time.

    Our bill output previously being low is irrelevant now that it is high, unless we can't maintain it which hasn't been proven yet. At the moment, our output is good, therefore we are competent at this.

    They produced a budget towards the end of term and now we are. They were active at the start and tailed off, we weren't as active in the middle and have picked ourselves up.

    I don't get the point you're making here? Are you saying the Government relies on the Opposition for legislation, because that's rubbish. If you're saying the Government has a small group of people writing legislation, there is nothing wrong with that and it isn't grounds for a MoNC.

    We're not jumping into bed with you, so Labour - Liberal is bigger than anything you can come up with

    (Original post by Scisaac)
    How does one go about joining the MHoC?
    You can either post in the Join A Party thread or just apply through the usergroups. I suggest the thread, and then I'll tag the relevant leaders
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    (Original post by Scisaac)
    How does one go about joining the MHoC?
    Apply for a party using the link in my signature.
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    (Original post by Jacob E)
    No, the first point raised in this MoNC are not points supporting a vote of no confidence because there is nothing stating coalition should finalise negotiations before forming the government. And given that a Labour-Liberal coalition would be bigger than the other coalitions proposed, there is no other coalition to replace this government, the outcome of this MoNC would be an early election.
    Fair enough, I accept that view on the first point.

    (Original post by DayneD89)
    This motion seems to be past its sell by date. I pointed out earlier that this government has passed a law withing the last week, currently has two bills in the lobby and another bill on the go. We also have bills almost completed in out subforum. If this government is a tool for helping bring debate to this house then it is achieving that objective. You have claimed that this seems to only be coming from one party, and I am glad to hear that we have managed to have a big influence on this government of late, however all government bills are the product of all parties of government and would not be possiable without the activities of members of all parties involved.
    This should have been happening ages ago and continued throughout the term. Why is it that the Government is only starting to pickup on it's bill output now?

    As I've already said, this Government is composed of more than one parties so it's natural that it would go through all parties before it is submitted. My idea is that the Liberals didn't sign up to this Government to be the only ones now getting their hands dirty? Right?

    This motion seems out of date. Had it come but a month earlier it may have had a point, as I understand it. Now, it seems like a pointlness and unnecessary distraction to detract from the remaining time this government has to impliment the policies it was elected to deliver.
    Yet a month earlier only one by-election happened that was triggered by Government parties. Not exactly out of date after a third by-election is confirmed, triggered again by a Government party.

    Can you refer to the manifestos and state for everything promised what you have delivered?
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    I did not actually say that my name can be used for this, but don't bother removing my name from it - I will be voting in favour, not just because of ideological differences but because the coalition have barely managed to use their mandate to do anything of more note than prison nationalisation.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    "Working on your relations" isn't good enough for an "Alternative Government".
    Actually it is if these relations are improving and look set to improve which I'm sure they will. Again, like JD, you're acting like there's only one alternative to this Government when there is in fact more. You just need to think harder...

    They haven't had them for Goverment's previous either, it only happened on my own insistence and LP being kind enough to agree to a policy agreement.
    Fair enough. I accept that point.

    We've already said our voting record hasn't been good enough and we're taking steps to improve it. The Liberals for example have 100% voting since we lost Conceited's seat a few days ago.
    Why are you taking steps now to improve this voting record after a third by-election has been announced? Is it not a priority for this Government to make sure that their MPs turn up to a vote?

    It's not that hard to make sure all your MPs vote on a few bills in the division, seeing that the loss was only a few days ago.

    If you wanted to know the Government's economic agenda why haven't you been constantly asking the Chancellor questions in the Ask the Government thread? I'm sure he's happy to talk policy at any time.
    And I have. All I've been getting and others is "you will see in due course" or something else similar. I'm not going to stand here and look pretty whilst this Government circles around deciding what their economic agenda is.

    Our bill output previously being low is irrelevant now that it is high, unless we can't maintain it which hasn't been proven yet. At the moment, our output is good, therefore we are competent at this.
    Why has it taken months for you guys to decide that you need to start producing things?

    They produced a budget towards the end of term and now we are. They were active at the start and tailed off, we weren't as active in the middle and have picked ourselves up.
    A previous government producing a Budget ridiculously late doesn't mean it's OK for the following government to do the same. It's almost pointless to start planning economic agenda towards the end of the term where it will have little impact, especially if it fails.

    I don't get the point you're making here? Are you saying the Government relies on the Opposition for legislation, because that's rubbish. If you're saying the Government has a small group of people writing legislation, there is nothing wrong with that and it isn't grounds for a MoNC.
    Depends on what you mean by "rely" - as in wait for a motion to be submitted so you can create something? Yeah.

    We're not jumping into bed with you, so Labour - Liberal is bigger than anything you can come up with
    How promising.
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    (Original post by CoffeeGeek)
    This should have been happening ages ago and continued throughout the term. Why is it that the Government is only starting to pickup on it's bill output now?

    As I've already said, this Government is composed of more than one parties so it's natural that it would go through all parties before it is submitted. My idea is that the Liberals didn't sign up to this Government to be the only ones now getting their hands dirty? Right?

    Yet a month earlier only one by-election happened that was triggered by Government parties. Not exactly out of date after a third by-election is confirmed, triggered again by a Government party.

    Can you refer to the manifestos and state for everything promised what you have delivered?
    Maybe it should have done. But it seems you missed your chance and decided to strike anyway. This government has been working on a lot of plans that have reached their final stages and are ready to present to the house. In fact, we have been spacing Bills out lately in order to not flood the house.

    We signed up to this party to deliver on our manifesto pledges and remain committed to achieving those goals. Formatting does not indicate that the author is the same. I can think of a Bill waiting in our subforum that i formatted, but had no hand in writing. I have had no hand in many of the proposals put to this house, even if it was me who added them to the green paper. A government is a unit and I think you will find us more united than you think.

    This is an area where this government has failed the most. We should not be proud of our voting record. We do of course have a system to ensure the house maintains a certain level of activity in those byelection rules. We have maintained our control of this house because we still have the mandate to implement our policies.

    I'm afraid I can't really comment on the last manifesto. I wasn't around at the time so I don't know all the details of the election.
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    Mr Speaker, even if we ignore that seconders were added without their consent this motion is also unconstitutional, or at the very least would not remove the current government.
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    I'm also waiting for people to argue that this should be rejected because it may lead to a libber government, and that consequently Moncs need completely changing so an alternative government needs proposing, or is that only when people are scared they might end up with a speaker who knows the constitution and its limits?

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    1. Oh no, we chose to do things slightly differently from some previous governments with no impact on output, policy or relations between the government parties, boo hoo.
    2. I'll admit that this point is partially valid, but firstly the whole House is having a period of lowered activity at the moment, and secondly by-elections are triggered by individuals forgetting to vote: if you're going to judge the entire government on the fact that two of its members (and yes, that includes me, I personally failed to have a system in place whereby I actually remembered to vote, I hold my hands up to that) have lost their seats, then I can only question why those two people are a better indicator of the government's competence than the ten who have not lost their seats.
    3. Firstly, what would the proposer and seconders rather: a budget that was rushed out early in the term without proper scrutiny in hopes of avoiding an MoNC, or a budget that has spent the term being worked on, researched, analysed, costed and checked over like the one that is now approaching completion? Secondly, all I'll say about our legislative output is that while it isn't the highest by any degree, a) what we have put out has been quality stuff, and b) it's certainly not the lowest the House has seen and is higher than some governments I remember involving the Conservatives, who have clearly been the main driving force behind this MoNC.

    4 and 5 I won't deign to address because neither are anything like valid reasons why any government should be VoNCed except in extreme scenarios, and if the proposer and seconders think this scenario is extreme then they would do well to spend an hour or two reading the wiki.

    All in all, this MoNC is a lacklustre potshot that reeks of only having been written because CG wanted something to try and patch things up between the Tories and Libers, which anyone privy to off-site comms can clearly see that it hasn't succeeded in doing. I'm confident that the level-headed majority of the House, including the many people on the right who know that MoNCs are for when the government genuinely has no prospect of ever being able to govern, will vote this down. Nay.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    I'm also waiting for people to argue that this should be rejected because it may lead to a libber government, and that consequently Moncs need completely changing so an alternative government needs proposing, or is that only when people are scared they might end up with a speaker who knows the constitution and its limits?

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    It has now been brought to my attention that not one bit two seconders did not consent
    Lol at CoffeeGeek calling the government incompetent when he couldn't even keep on top of whether the seconders for his attempt to replace the government actually wanted to second or not.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Lol at CoffeeGeek calling the government incompetent when he couldn't even keep on top of whether the seconders for his attempt to replace the government actually wanted to second or not.
    Not that you're exactly one for consent
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Lol at CoffeeGeek calling the government incompetent when he couldn't even keep on top of whether the seconders for his attempt to replace the government actually wanted to second or not.
    I suggest you of all people shouldn't be throwing stones given that you couldn't keep on top of your voting, the most basic responsibility of every MP, and have thus recently lost your seat due to the very same reason… The fact that you're also the Deputy Speaker only ads insult to injury.
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    The prime minister is going to swot this silly little thing away with exceptional ease.
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    (Original post by Life_peer)
    I suggest you of all people shouldn't be throwing stones given that you couldn't keep on top of your voting, the most basic responsibility of every MP, and have thus recently lost your seat due to the very same reason… The fact that you're also the Deputy Speaker only ads insult to injury.
    I fully realise and admit that I didn't keep on top of my voting. I also realise that given this, it would be hypocritical of me to, say, call an MoNC on the grounds of incompetence.
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    I don't exactly see how the opposition parties claim there is a credible alternative at the moment. I will concede we haven't been the most active government, but contrary to previous less active governments, that reflects a higher standard. Point to one item this term which, independent of policy, hasn't been well-conceived by the government.
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    (Original post by cranbrook_aspie)
    Lol at CoffeeGeek calling the government incompetent when he couldn't even keep on top of whether the seconders for his attempt to replace the government actually wanted to second or not.
    Don't think you can speak when you couldn't be arsed to turn up to a vote, causing the socialists to lose a seat. And now you've run off to Labour. Never thought I should say this but perhaps you owe an apology to your Socialist friends for messing it up for them?
 
 
 
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