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Underage gambling - views/opinions
Hi, I read these forums every so often but haven’t registered before. I was wondering what people’s views were on underage gambling and, specifically, whose moral/legal fault it is.
So, underage gambling… is it the teenager’s fault for gambling knowing that it’s illegal, or is it the company’s fault for accepting the bets from somebody under 18? Both? To different extents? And what should happen about it… should the teenager return winnings and be sued/prosecuted, or, in different circumstances, should the company return losses and be sued/prosecuted for their part? Or should it just be forgotten?
I was 16 (I’m 19 in a couple of weeks) when I first started gambling with well known bookies online (using my Solo card and bank transfers) and also in a local highstreet betting shop. Even though I’m still regularly asked for ID when entering a club or buying alcohol, never was I asked for anything to prove my age. Does ticking a T&Cs box on a website count, or is walking into and attempting to place a bet in a person enough to protect the companies of any wrong doing? I had a little eBay business at the time which allowed me to lose about £4,000 over the course of a year, mostly in one betting shop. I suspect now that the staff there thought I might be underage but choose not to ask any questions since it would be an admission that they should’ve stopped me at an earlier point.
I thought I was mature enough at the time, but now I can see now the power it had over me and exactly why there are laws on this to protect those under 18. I placed those bets in good faith so I don’t believe it fraudulent of me to go back now and say sorry for my part, but that was wrong, give me my money back.
And going further, would it be wrong to claim any sort of damages? I accept my part in it, no question - I knew it was illegal for me to gamble - but there are laws to prevent minors from the dangers of gambling and the companies owed me a duty of care, and were negligent if they failed to prevent me from gambling if they could’ve reasonably done so – which they could’ve. The gambling and the winning and losing of hundreds of pounds, occasionally well over a thousand, really affected me on a personal basis and was a primary cause for my failing college in the first year (two U's and one E!). Thankfully I turned it around, but I’m still retaking exams this month to boost my A-levels upto A’s in two subjects, months after all my friends have left for uni. Is there a worthy case here, or am I just being a prat of my own making?
It would be interesting to hear opinions on this…
So, underage gambling… is it the teenager’s fault for gambling knowing that it’s illegal, or is it the company’s fault for accepting the bets from somebody under 18? Both? To different extents? And what should happen about it… should the teenager return winnings and be sued/prosecuted, or, in different circumstances, should the company return losses and be sued/prosecuted for their part? Or should it just be forgotten?
I was 16 (I’m 19 in a couple of weeks) when I first started gambling with well known bookies online (using my Solo card and bank transfers) and also in a local highstreet betting shop. Even though I’m still regularly asked for ID when entering a club or buying alcohol, never was I asked for anything to prove my age. Does ticking a T&Cs box on a website count, or is walking into and attempting to place a bet in a person enough to protect the companies of any wrong doing? I had a little eBay business at the time which allowed me to lose about £4,000 over the course of a year, mostly in one betting shop. I suspect now that the staff there thought I might be underage but choose not to ask any questions since it would be an admission that they should’ve stopped me at an earlier point.
I thought I was mature enough at the time, but now I can see now the power it had over me and exactly why there are laws on this to protect those under 18. I placed those bets in good faith so I don’t believe it fraudulent of me to go back now and say sorry for my part, but that was wrong, give me my money back.
And going further, would it be wrong to claim any sort of damages? I accept my part in it, no question - I knew it was illegal for me to gamble - but there are laws to prevent minors from the dangers of gambling and the companies owed me a duty of care, and were negligent if they failed to prevent me from gambling if they could’ve reasonably done so – which they could’ve. The gambling and the winning and losing of hundreds of pounds, occasionally well over a thousand, really affected me on a personal basis and was a primary cause for my failing college in the first year (two U's and one E!). Thankfully I turned it around, but I’m still retaking exams this month to boost my A-levels upto A’s in two subjects, months after all my friends have left for uni. Is there a worthy case here, or am I just being a prat of my own making?
It would be interesting to hear opinions on this…
Reply 1
It's interesting to read the personal viewpoint of someone who has been affected by gambling, and on that note I disagree with underage gambling.
On the other hand, I used to occasionally get lotto tickets before I was 16, I signed up to online betting websites for a referral (free ipod) website and joined ebay and paypal at about 12, and breaking the law in these cases has not damaged me at all. How it effects you depends completely on who you are.
In the same way gambling affects children, it affects adults, so surely on that note it should be completely removed??
Regarding online gambling, there is a limit to how much big companys can ensure people obey the law; it used to be the case that you had to be 16/ 18 at least to have a credit/ debit card in the first place, however more and more teenagers are getting solo cards or simular and the companies have not adapted to this influx. Also, the company quite simply just wants money, and so if you are happy to lie on a legally binding contract to put money in their pockets, why would they go out of their way to stop you..? Too many checks would be branded invasive and unnecissarily require more personal information being sent over the internet.
Regarding the high street bookies, that is ridiculous!! The staff were irresponsable and were not furfilling their duty, and are required to ask if they have any doubts. You would have to be very incompetatant if you worked in such a field and didn't ask a 16 year old for ID, even if they looked like they could scrape 18.
Anyway, congrats for getting your life on track and sorry for the essay...
On the other hand, I used to occasionally get lotto tickets before I was 16, I signed up to online betting websites for a referral (free ipod) website and joined ebay and paypal at about 12, and breaking the law in these cases has not damaged me at all. How it effects you depends completely on who you are.
In the same way gambling affects children, it affects adults, so surely on that note it should be completely removed??
Regarding online gambling, there is a limit to how much big companys can ensure people obey the law; it used to be the case that you had to be 16/ 18 at least to have a credit/ debit card in the first place, however more and more teenagers are getting solo cards or simular and the companies have not adapted to this influx. Also, the company quite simply just wants money, and so if you are happy to lie on a legally binding contract to put money in their pockets, why would they go out of their way to stop you..? Too many checks would be branded invasive and unnecissarily require more personal information being sent over the internet.
Regarding the high street bookies, that is ridiculous!! The staff were irresponsable and were not furfilling their duty, and are required to ask if they have any doubts. You would have to be very incompetatant if you worked in such a field and didn't ask a 16 year old for ID, even if they looked like they could scrape 18.
Anyway, congrats for getting your life on track and sorry for the essay...
Usualsupect
Well, you're rather obviously a scamming little bugger who gambled in full knowledge of what he was doing, but all the same it appears that underage gamblers are entitled to a return of their stakes and that prizes cannot be reclaimed by the person who took your bet - s.83 of the Gambling Act 2005. How that would actually work out in practice is another matter.
However under s.48 you have, yourself, committed an offence by gambling. Admitting that publicly might not be the cleverest idea.
Reply 3
I'm not sure if this is right, but this is what I've got from your post:
You lost loads of money etc, and as a result want to sue the betting company for serving you as you were underage?
Seems a bit ridiculous to me. It's like suing tesco because you had to have your stomach pumped after drinking too much of their cheap booze and they served you when you were underage.
Sure they served you underage, but you made the decision to gamble. At age 16 you should know the risks etc.
You lost loads of money etc, and as a result want to sue the betting company for serving you as you were underage?
Seems a bit ridiculous to me. It's like suing tesco because you had to have your stomach pumped after drinking too much of their cheap booze and they served you when you were underage.
Sure they served you underage, but you made the decision to gamble. At age 16 you should know the risks etc.
Reply 4
Usualsupect
So, underage gambling… is it the teenager’s fault for gambling knowing that it’s illegal, or is it the company’s fault for accepting the bets from somebody under 18? Both?
Both. It's well known for certain gambling 'shops' to accept bets from obvious underage gamblers. What will often happen is that, should the youngster win, he will be asked for proof of age. A way round this would be go to Watchdog or another consumer program, have undercover filming with you, and try it. Wouldn't be surprised if the police used their children to do this to be honest.
Reply 5
10TIHAY, I agree with you, just as gambling can affect those underage it can affect adults too, it depends on who you are. I view myself as a fairly strong person but gambling was my vice; I enjoy alcohol, dabbled with cannabis, but I can’t see how those things could ever meaningfully affect me. However, I do think minors are significantly more susceptible to developing a problem on the whole.
Should it be completely removed? Perhaps, afterall, it doesn’t bring any good in reality, except maybe economic benefits. I do think the government was massively irresponsible chasing the ‘Super Casinos’ for so long. But, then again, why should a national pastime be criminalised because a (significant) minority are adversely affected by it?
Lib, of course I knew what I was doing was illegal. It’s common sense - I don’t need an Act to tell me that. But thanks for posting the link, I didn’t know about any return of stake law. I stopped gambling (with exception to the odd flutter) at about the end of 2006, so I’ve been rather slow if this was as methodical as you like to think.
Randomgirl, your analogy is not the greatest either; any kid can drink too much alcohol on a one off occasion and need his stomach pumped, but this is different in that I went there time and time again, building up a relationship, betting more and more, £100… £500… £1000, showing signs of an addiction, whilst being underage. Would it be as ridiculous if Tesco was instead a chain off-licence with only five or six staff who, over the course of a year, sold large quantities of beer and vodka to a minor with an addiction, a minor who became a known face, and then the kid needed his stomach pumped?...
Perhaps, at 16 you should know the risks. I respect that view, but then again at that age (and my age too – I only really know now because I’ve experienced it) you sometimes think you’re stronger than you really are, and only find out exactly how strong you really are in certain aspects of life once you’ve been broken.
I believe that some organisations have/had been as methodical in this as I’ve been accused of. I think that 10TIHAY and Ndgaarondi are right in that certain companies will intelligently cater to minors, knowing that they’re a little voice and won’t kick up a fuss and only ask for ID when the minor is significantly ahead of the game.
Should it be completely removed? Perhaps, afterall, it doesn’t bring any good in reality, except maybe economic benefits. I do think the government was massively irresponsible chasing the ‘Super Casinos’ for so long. But, then again, why should a national pastime be criminalised because a (significant) minority are adversely affected by it?
Lib, of course I knew what I was doing was illegal. It’s common sense - I don’t need an Act to tell me that. But thanks for posting the link, I didn’t know about any return of stake law. I stopped gambling (with exception to the odd flutter) at about the end of 2006, so I’ve been rather slow if this was as methodical as you like to think.
Randomgirl, your analogy is not the greatest either; any kid can drink too much alcohol on a one off occasion and need his stomach pumped, but this is different in that I went there time and time again, building up a relationship, betting more and more, £100… £500… £1000, showing signs of an addiction, whilst being underage. Would it be as ridiculous if Tesco was instead a chain off-licence with only five or six staff who, over the course of a year, sold large quantities of beer and vodka to a minor with an addiction, a minor who became a known face, and then the kid needed his stomach pumped?...
Perhaps, at 16 you should know the risks. I respect that view, but then again at that age (and my age too – I only really know now because I’ve experienced it) you sometimes think you’re stronger than you really are, and only find out exactly how strong you really are in certain aspects of life once you’ve been broken.
I believe that some organisations have/had been as methodical in this as I’ve been accused of. I think that 10TIHAY and Ndgaarondi are right in that certain companies will intelligently cater to minors, knowing that they’re a little voice and won’t kick up a fuss and only ask for ID when the minor is significantly ahead of the game.
You wouldn't be handing over your winnings if you'd had this 'epiphany' after a big win would you? Move on and leave it alone.
And it's because of 16 year old know it all’s that most reputable bookies now won't take Solo and demand several forms of ID to be scanned which is a pain in the neck for legitimate adult gamblers.
And it's because of 16 year old know it all’s that most reputable bookies now won't take Solo and demand several forms of ID to be scanned which is a pain in the neck for legitimate adult gamblers.
Reply 7
lolz i remember when i used to put 20p in those roulette machines everytime i went back home from school. made like £15 in a week; lost like £1.
wesetters
Why ?
Well I think it's immoral on both parts - the casino/agency and the gambler him/herself. It's exploitation of people's stupidity, yes, they choose to do it, but they are earning money out of other's loss. You might say that shops work in the same way, but the transaction is (supposedly) an equal one. They make people think that they somehow have a good chance of winning, encourage them to do it, while knowing that ultimately they will end up with their money.
On the gambler's part, I think it's immoral to get money without having worked for it. Sure, nothing illegal is going but I just...think it's wrong.
No that's a different issue because generally with gifts it's because of kindness and/or a specific reason, a personal act of wanting to give.
Gambling is purely greed on both parts. I don't think getting money "because you can" (or in most cases, losing it) is a reason in itself for it to be okay.
Gambling is purely greed on both parts. I don't think getting money "because you can" (or in most cases, losing it) is a reason in itself for it to be okay.
Reply 12
I think like many things it's purely down to the personality of the individual.
I've been gambling since I was about 14. I placed bets in loads of different bookies and on racecourses. In all 4 years of undersage gambling I got asked for ID once. And that is pretty much because I had my schoolbag on and it was like 3.30 and everyone was coming out of school at tha time.
But gambling is very much like drinking. It's fine within reason. I could handle it perfectly and always bet within my means and it was a fun enjoyable hobby. However you meet many characters in betting shops and there were countless people with respectable jobs, a seemlingly well balanced life betting every penny they had in their pocket.
To be honest most of this is irrelevant now anyway. With the Updated Gambling Act which was put in place in Sept 2007 it's pretty much impossible for underage people to gamble. Whereas before the industry was in some kind of dark age with consdieration of underage gambling it's now strictly monitored. Shops will ask for ID, as will Internet firms and even at Racecourse bookmakers who once took bets from anyone wil ask for ID due to Gambling Commision Compliance Officers checking things throughly.
I've been gambling since I was about 14. I placed bets in loads of different bookies and on racecourses. In all 4 years of undersage gambling I got asked for ID once. And that is pretty much because I had my schoolbag on and it was like 3.30 and everyone was coming out of school at tha time.
But gambling is very much like drinking. It's fine within reason. I could handle it perfectly and always bet within my means and it was a fun enjoyable hobby. However you meet many characters in betting shops and there were countless people with respectable jobs, a seemlingly well balanced life betting every penny they had in their pocket.
To be honest most of this is irrelevant now anyway. With the Updated Gambling Act which was put in place in Sept 2007 it's pretty much impossible for underage people to gamble. Whereas before the industry was in some kind of dark age with consdieration of underage gambling it's now strictly monitored. Shops will ask for ID, as will Internet firms and even at Racecourse bookmakers who once took bets from anyone wil ask for ID due to Gambling Commision Compliance Officers checking things throughly.
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