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British Jewish writers condemn anti-Semitism in Jeremy Corbyn's Labour watch

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    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/485177...ion-to-israel/



    Sad
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    > Britain’s top Jewish writers slam Jeremy Corbyn for tolerating Labour anti-semitism under the cover of opposition to Israel

    Funny, because reading the article they seem to be slamming Corbyn's anti-Zionism under the cover of opposition to anti-semitism
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    Anti-zionism is not Anti-semitism.
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    the Hebrew word Corban is interesting:

    It is the most general term for a sacrifice of any kind. In the course of time it became associated with an objectionable practice.

    :beard:
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    I despise Corbyn and hope he never gets elected, however anti-Semitism is not the same as anti-Zionism and he is anti-Zionist.

    Zionism is a cancer that needs to be destroyed. However it is impossible to criticise Zionism because Jews cry anti-Semitism, which is of course, the worst crime in the world.
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    I mean it's sad because we're living under Jewish political correct tyranny lets face it.

    You can't speak truth to Jewish power. If someone makes Jews look bad, or goes against a Jewish narrative then it's called hate speech and anti-semitism.
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    Interesting that whenever people attack blatantly anti-semitic things, anti-semites start on about this "anti-Zionism isn't anti-semitism", as if what's being criticised is anti-Zionism rather than outright, blatant Jew hatred.

    If you support a group that wants all Jews worldwide to be killed, then you are an anti-semite. Corbyn supports and praises a group that wants all Jews worldwide to be killed. Ergo...
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    (Original post by Atahan)
    I mean it's sad because we're living under Jewish political correct tyranny lets face it.
    D'awww, the Nazi is upset.
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    (Original post by Chaz254)
    it is impossible to criticise Zionism because Jews cry anti-Semitism.
    Because "Jews cry". If anti-semitism and anti-Zionism are not the same thing, why are you attacking Jews?
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    (Original post by AngeryPenguin)
    Funny, because reading the article they seem to be slamming Corbyn's anti-Zionism under the cover of opposition to anti-semitism
    Is it anti-semitic to call for all Jews worldwide to be killed?
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    (Original post by SCIENCE :D)
    Anti-zionism is not Anti-semitism.
    Is calling for all Jews worldwide to be killed "anti-Zionism"?
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Because "Jews cry". If anti-semitism and anti-Zionism are not the same thing, why are you attacking Jews?

    Busted, you Nazi piece of ****.
    Not all Jews are Zionists. I'm not attacking Jews 🤣🤣🤣 I see you are a prime example which proves my point.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Is it anti-semitic to call for all Jews worldwide to be killed?
    Is it dishonest to construct a strawman argument?
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    Wow, they're not even shying away from it, they're explicitly saying that rejecting an ethno-nationalist ideology/movement is racist....
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    (Original post by SCIENCE :D)
    Anti-zionism is not Anti-semitism.
    exactly, butt hurt Zionists always play the 'anti semite' card when it comes to criticism of Israel.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Interesting that whenever people attack blatantly anti-semitic things, anti-semites start on about this "anti-Zionism isn't anti-semitism", as if what's being criticised is anti-Zionism rather than outright, blatant Jew hatred.

    If you support a group that wants all Jews worldwide to be killed, then you are an anti-semite. Corbyn supports and praises a group that wants all Jews worldwide to be killed. Ergo...
    Death to Zionism.
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    (Original post by AlexanderHam)
    Is calling for all Jews worldwide to be killed "anti-Zionism"?
    Nope, that's just evil.
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    OK, now I've got time to go through this a bit more fully....

    For a start, the framing of the article. It's explicitly mentioned several times, including in the headline, that Schama, Jacobson and Montefiore are Jewish. By contrast, the speakers at the Labour conference complained about - Miko Peled in particular, but also Leah Levane and Naomi Wimbourne-Idrissi - aren't even mentioned by name - they're just "activists" - never mind it being mentioned that they're also Jewish. Similarly no acknowledgement that Jackie Walker, mentioned explicitly, is also Jewish.

    Now, to the letter itself. Unfortunately the original is behind a paywall (if anyone could link an un-paywalled copy, it'd be much appreciated), so I'm going on what's been quoted in the Sun article:

    "We do not object to fair criticism of Israel governments, but this has grown to be indistinguishable from a demonisation of Zionism itself - the right of the Jewish people to a homeland, and the very existence of a Jewish state."

    Allow me to make an analogy here. Northern Ireland as a distinct entity was set up quite explicitly as an Ulster Protestant homeland/state. For most of its early history, from the 1920s through to the 1960s, that was how its unionist governments explicitly understood it and referenced it. It was the understanding of the loyalist paramilitaries as well - hence the UDA's dallying with the idea of Northern Irish independence in the 1970s, right up to the notorious "Doomsday Plan" of 1994.

    What Schama and Co. are suggesting here is the equivalent of saying during the Troubles that it was OK to criticise particular British or Northern Irish governments or unionist parties, but that to reject "the right of the Ulster Protestant people to a homeland" and or oppose "the very existence of a Protestant state" was unacceptable and bigoted. It would be an impossibly unfeasible position. It would (rightly) be considered an outrageous insult to Northern Irish Catholics. Indeed, peace in NI was only achieved with an agreement that pretty explicitly rejected both of those positions - the GFA accepted the principle that Northern Ireland was a shared society and state between Protestants and Catholics, and accepted that Sinn Fein and the SDLP were free to continue campaigning for the dissolution of the Northern Irish state into a united Ireland, as long as they did so through peaceful democratic means.

    "Accusations of international Jewish conspiracy and control of the media have resurfaced to support false equations of Zionism with colonialism and imperialism, and the promotion of vicious, fictitious parallels with genocide and Nazism."

    Ok, I'm going to break this down. The conspiracy point is fair enough (even if I may slightly disagree about whether some recent examples entirely fit that trope). However, "equation of Zionism with colonialism" is a long-established academic argument, going back to Maxime Rodinson in the 1960s. Lorenzo Veracini is perhaps the most prominent adherent of this view in the field of settler-colonial studies, but there are others too. Of course, it remains a debated argument, certainly not a consensus, but it is certainly an argument with credibility.*

    Comparing the Israel-Palestine situation to genocide and Nazism is certainly quite over the top, and I think such analogies should be avoided, because I don't think they're very useful (and because using Nazism as the go-to analogy for bad stuff is intellectually lazy) - much better analogies analogies, in different ways, are Serbia-Bosnia, Armenia-Karabakh, Abkhazia, South Africa and Liberia - but I don't think they're inherently antisemitic. Also worth noting that Nazi and Holocaust analogies have been invoked constantly in Israeli politics for 70 years,** because such analogies resonate more for obvious reasons.

    * Indeed, early Zionist leaders openly spoke in such colonial terms. Herzl, Weizmann and Jabotinsky all talked about Zionist settlement of Palestine as "colonisation" and referred to the Palestinians as "natives" or even "indigenous" (Jabotinsky even explicitly compared them to the Aztecs and the Sioux). This isn't really surprising, as this was the dominant international political language of the time - terms like "national liberation", "anti-colonialism" and "self-determination" wouldn't become popular for a few more decades.

    ** Just in case anyone's interested, Holocaust memory and invocation in Israel's a pretty interesting topic, and I'd recommend checking out Tom Segev's The Seventh Million and Idith Zertal's Israel's Holocaust and the Politics of Nationhood, or alternatively Ch. 7 of Ilan Pappe's The Idea of Israel (not as good or as comprehensive, but more likely to be available at non-academic bookshops, and also probably cheaper).
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    Is it just me or is it beyond reprehensible for these sorts to keep conflating anti-antisemitism and anti-Zionism? By their somewhat odd logic the majority of orthodox jews are somehow hating themselves? Cute right?
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Is it just me or is it beyond reprehensible for these sorts to keep conflating anti-antisemitism and anti-Zionism? By their somewhat odd logic the majority of orthodox jews are somehow hating themselves? Cute right?
    They can't defend Israel's atrocious actions so they resort to playing the victim and accusing of anti-Semitism.
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