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Do you believe in Labour's free tuition? watch

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    (Original post by Chaz254)
    Bad troll is bad.

    Only the plebs demand free tuition because they're poor.

    Besides, I doubt Socialist Corbyn would be able to follow through on his promises.

    Keep dreaming, lefties.
    Hahah I'm not lying about going to a private school you know...
    You're a typical Tory demonising the poor.
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    (Original post by RogerOxon)
    Let me guess, you're not rich ..
    I’d be willing to bet that they’re rich compared to the world’s population.
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    (Original post by Chaz254)
    Bad troll is bad.

    Only the plebs demand free tuition because they're poor.

    Besides, I doubt Socialist Corbyn would be able to follow through on his promises.

    Keep dreaming, lefties.
    i want less tuition not because I'm poor but because there are people with low income households that have talent and should be free to pursue it regardless of financial situation. The policy is good but the execution of it, isn't
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    No chance, not unless Jeremy is willing to send us into debt worthy of the dark ages to get into number 10.
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    Psst I know a way it could happen, vote labour... don't tell anyone.
    We tried bro. We really did.
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    (Original post by damn daniel yeah)
    Yeah but it isnt free though is it. Your parents pay a lot of taxes. BUt not enough to cover the cost of school healthcare police fireman and the military including uni
    Wait what? You have to pay for medical at uni? Bruhhhh
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    (Original post by nicholasflee)
    I don't think it works both socially or financially, it would be more effective if we only lowered to £4000 or something affordable but not as a deterrent. Thoughts?
    I’m more concerned that not everyone can even get the loans they need. As a student who physically can not afford university as my maintenance loans won’t even cover my accommodation, I’m more concerned that there’s no way of paying it at all.

    That needs to be more of a priority.
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    I'm a Labour party member and I dont think they should be free right now. I want equality of opportunity and uni should be free, but we simply can't afford it. As of now they should be decreased to around 5k and then slowly down to 0 over then next 5 or so years. Then the government should pay back any fees paid and write off debt. Essentially this is a form of government borrowing but from people instead of through government bonds.
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    Of course tuition fees shouldn't be free.

    Firstly on principle: why should the taxpayer be forced to subsidise the degrees of plenty of upper and middle-class students who easily have the wherewithal to fund said degrees themselves? You get a situation where across the country the tax level is being increased on consumers, many of whom working-class, to pay for Alistair from Eton to go to Oxford. Clearly if there must be a system change, then it should be to means test higher education so that the poorest don't have to pay meanwhile those who can afford to pay, do.

    However, a system change assumes that there is something drastically wrong with the current system. There is not. Applications to higher education are at an all time high. Access to higher education for people from low income backgrounds is at an all time high. University places are at an all time high. University courses offered - yep, all time high. Amount of universities? All time high. Clearly the UK's is a system that is thriving, not something that has to be drastically reformed.

    This is mainly thanks to a repayment scheme which is, thanks to Lib Dem efforts during the Coalition government, effectively a graduate tax. There is a set wage after which you pay it, and after this set wage it is paid as a proportion of your earnings. This ensures that the so called "burden" of debt never actually becomes a "burden" by any sense of the word: it is easily manageable and allows for financial flexibility. Futhermore, the debt is written off completely after 30 years. All in all, as consumers of education we pay for exactly the benefit received: if you do a degree and it does not pay off or lead to high-earning employment at all then your payments will be lower and your debt will be written off. Meanwhile, if you go straight into a high-paying job then you may be likely to pay it off within the next decade or so.

    The only possible argument for free tuition is to try and harness the social benefit from increased university attendance and a higher educated population. However, this would only be valid if students did seem to be put off university en masse by tuition fees. Analysis and statistics say they are not, thanks to the aforementioned repayment scheme. England, where tuition fees are still in place, is much better statistically for people from poor backgrounds in terms of accessing higher education, than for example Scotland, which has a real problem still in increasing higher education participation rates.

    Furthermore, the "social benefit" argument assumes that the optimum social benefit is derived from maximised university attendance but in actuality it most likely is not: apprenticeships, trades, other qualifications, jobs straight from school can often provide just as much benefit - after all, we need plumbers, electricians, etc. Increasing university attendance excessively can also have unintended consequences that are twofold: one, many students can go into degrees for the sake of going to university when actually it will not benefit them any more than if they had just begun working straight away - analysis have even found some institutions can damage employment opportunities rather than improve them. Therefore, by maintaining a cost for university education it helps degrees to retain their value. Two, increasing government funding for university education through subsidies in the way that Corbyn's policy would entail could actually divert a lot of money and attention away from other qualifications such as apprenticeships. This could have many negative consequences for social benefit rather than improving it.

    Thats why tuition fees should not be free.
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    i think a lot of young people voted Labour because of this but the problem is that we LITERALLY COULDN'T DO IT it would mess up our entire economic system and we would be in SO MUCH DEBT it would be unrealllll. I do understand that loads of people really struggle with paying tuition but I think we should look at trying to help those people instead of completely scrapping those costs. So yeah, good idea but totally non viable.
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    (Original post by Juedjegfewo)
    Of course tuition fees shouldn't be free.

    Firstly on principle: why should the taxpayer be forced to subsidise the degrees of plenty of upper and middle-class students who easily have the wherewithal to fund said degrees themselves? You get a situation where across the country the tax level is being increased on consumers, many of whom working-class, to pay for Alistair from Eton to go to Oxford. Clearly if there must be a system change, then it should be to means test higher education so that the poorest don't have to pay meanwhile those who can afford to pay, do.

    However, a system change assumes that there is something drastically wrong with the current system. There is not. Applications to higher education are at an all time high. Access to higher education for people from low income backgrounds is at an all time high. University places are at an all time high. University courses offered - yep, all time high. Amount of universities? All time high. Clearly the UK's is a system that is thriving, not something that has to be drastically reformed.

    This is mainly thanks to a repayment scheme which is, thanks to Lib Dem efforts during the Coalition government, effectively a graduate tax. There is a set wage after which you pay it, and after this set wage it is paid as a proportion of your earnings. This ensures that the so called "burden" of debt never actually becomes a "burden" by any sense of the word: it is easily manageable and allows for financial flexibility. Futhermore, the debt is written off completely after 30 years. All in all, as consumers of education we pay for exactly the benefit received: if you do a degree and it does not pay off or lead to high-earning employment at all then your payments will be lower and your debt will be written off. Meanwhile, if you go straight into a high-paying job then you may be likely to pay it off within the next decade or so.

    The only possible argument for free tuition is to try and harness the social benefit from increased university attendance and a higher educated population. However, this would only be valid if students did seem to be put off university en masse by tuition fees. Analysis and statistics say they are not, thanks to the aforementioned repayment scheme. England, where tuition fees are still in place, is much better statistically for people from poor backgrounds in terms of accessing higher education, than for example Scotland, which has a real problem still in increasing higher education participation rates.

    Furthermore, the "social benefit" argument assumes that the optimum social benefit is derived from maximised university attendance but in actuality it most likely is not: apprenticeships, trades, other qualifications, jobs straight from school can often provide just as much benefit - after all, we need plumbers, electricians, etc. Increasing university attendance excessively can also have unintended consequences that are twofold: one, many students can go into degrees for the sake of going to university when actually it will not benefit them any more than if they had just begun working straight away - analysis have even found some institutions can damage employment opportunities rather than improve them. Therefore, by maintaining a cost for university education it helps degrees to retain their value. Two, increasing government funding for university education through subsidies in the way that Corbyn's policy would entail could actually divert a lot of money and attention away from other qualifications such as apprenticeships. This could have many negative consequences for social benefit rather than improving it.

    Thats why tuition fees should not be free.
    This is all true and all but what's ur view on the tuition fee being lowered
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    (Original post by nicholasflee)
    This is all true and all but what's ur view on the tuition fee being lowered
    Since their conception tuition fees have been tinkered with continuously to try and improve them and the system itself and I think there is certainly some degree of tinkering left to be done.

    In the short term I think tinkering should take the form of altering somewhat interest rates and increasing the payments threshold according to average earnings, as they promised they would do some years ago. But the level of tuition fees should for now remain the same. Its important to recognise that lots of the £9,000 of each student per year is reinvested in new technology, accomodation, academic staff, lecture halls, etc. and so improves the quality and improves the student capacity of univerisities.

    However, in the long term, there needs to be increased competition amongst universities. The cap of £9,000 on tuition fees was initially introduced to try and foster some competition so that only the best universities would charge high prices whereas others might lower their prices to attract graduates, and thus there would be incentive for universities to increase their teaching quality and improve their reputation so that the market enabled them to price their degrees higher. However, this did not occur as the government would have wished and so all universities raised prices to the maximum. Therefore, the government is now trying new initiatives such as the Teaching Excellence Framework to try and improve competition by ranking universities Gold, Silver and Bronze and thereby allowing better ranked ones to slowly charge higher prices. This is a good way to go but I agree that prices should not be radically increased any more from what they are now.
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    (Original post by nicholasflee)
    I don't think it works both socially or financially, it would be more effective if we only lowered to £4000 or something affordable but not as a deterrent. Thoughts?
    With the repayment system the cost is effectively much lower for most people and it's the most successful who have to contribute a lot. I would scrap tuition fees for the useful skills in demand most to help the economy: medicine, engineering, computer science, some other STEM subjects. For other subjects there should be scholarships for the brightest at the best universities.

    If people want to study journalism or art at a mediocre university, they should be paying for it (and not be encouraged by the state through zero fees). At a time of £50bn deficit it makes no sense.
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    Free tuition would only work if the tuition is a very high standard, it would basically mean GCSEs being as difficult as their equivalents of 50 years ago, right now A Level maths is a worse standard than GCE maths of 1962
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    Would it necessarily be a good idea to have free tuition wouldn't more people just go to uni for the sake of it and create more competition for those who were meant to benefit most from free tuition, plus wouldn't unis be more inclined to get people from families who could "donate" money?
 
 
 
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