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    Which feminists have the got right idea?
    Radical?
    Marxist?
    Liberal?
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    Personally the more 'sane' one i'd side with if i had to is 'Liberal Feminism' as they push for rights/Acts that will and have changed the world women live in today.
    From what i'm 'learning' in Sociology though all three beleive in theoretical myths that have been proven false over the years.
    I tend to not label myself a Feminist due to this but do and like everybody should support equality between the genders.
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    Ones that aren't special snowflakes like on everyday feminism. Also not the overly pc left who won't call out misogyny when it is from trans people or certain cultures, yet when it is from someone like Trump (who I despise) then they (rightly) call it out.
    I think I probably agree with most of second wave feminism, but still, not everything.
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    Intersectional feminism
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    (Original post by existingusername)
    Intersectional feminism
    so that's critical theory, then. critical gender theory; critical race theory; critical class theory; critical legal jurisprudence. one minute step away from marxism, essentially.
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    (Original post by liamsgone)
    Personally the more 'sane' one i'd side with if i had to is 'Liberal Feminism' as they push for rights/Acts that will and have changed the world women live in today.
    From what i'm 'learning' in Sociology though all three beleive in theoretical myths that have been proven false over the years.
    I tend to not label myself a Feminist due to this but do and like everybody should support equality between the genders.
    It wasn't Liberal Feminists who won the vote, it was radicals.

    The problem with Liberal feminism is that is almost wholly concerned with optics, not meaningful social change. You can't just expect that just because someone is a woman their leadership will further the feminist cause without addressing the underlying systems that allow oppresson to flourish.

    Similarly, the goals of Feminism cannot be realised with out also fighting the other oppressve systems present in society. Ending up in a situation where women are as downtrodden as their male counterparts (and vice versa) is not a situation we should be striving for.
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    (Original post by Ella-keturah)
    Ones that aren't special snowflakes like on everyday feminism. Also not the overly pc left who won't call out misogyny when it is from trans people or certain cultures, yet when it is from someone like Trump (who I despise) then they (rightly) call it out.
    I think I probably agree with most of second wave feminism, but still, not everything.
    So you are a radfem? That's fantastic. Sadly people think the word radical implies they are man haters or they are extreme, often also confuse them with the liberal morons.

    EverydayFeminism does more harm to women than good.
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    (Original post by Jimbo Jones)
    so that's critical theory, then. critical gender theory; critical race theory; critical class theory; critical legal jurisprudence. one minute step away from marxism, essentially.
    As far as I am aware, intersectional feminism is the exact opposite of gender critical feminism. Especially re trans issues.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    As far as I am aware, intersectional feminism is the exact opposite of gender critical feminism. Especially re trans issues.
    no it isn't. critical gender theory is completely marxist. it just replaces class with gender, and the bourgeoisie is replaced by patriarchy. the only difference though is a lack of a will to violent revolution.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So you are a radfem? That's fantastic. Sadly people think the word radical implies they are man haters or they are extreme, often also confuse them with the liberal morons.

    EverydayFeminism does more harm to women than good.
    from what I know, the core principles of radical feminism are:
    1) women are sexually oppressed/objectified by men, and hence, radical feminists (i.e. mackinnon) are anti-sex, or anti-prostitution
    2) there is a patriarchy that subjects women to a glass ceiling and women are seen as inferior in the workplace
    3) the personal is political (millet); things that happen to women in private affect all women everywhere in a cultural way, and so on
    4) equality before the law doesn't go far enough and women ought to be absolutely equal in all manners in society, effectively removing the culture of gender entirely

    am I mistaken?

    if so, please explain

    if not, how can you endorse such a school of feminism? women are plainly not "oppressed", women have power in their sexuality, and women these days are actually more likely to be hired, especially in STEM, than men. equality of outcome is not merit based, so how can you equalise women and men when they all make individual-based choices? do you think you'll only get to totalitarian egalitarianism by removing gender as a culture? because how else will you stop men and women making choices based on their gender? how will you separate biology from sex (or gender) as well?
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    (Original post by Ella-keturah)
    Ones that aren't special snowflakes like on everyday feminism. Also not the overly pc left who won't call out misogyny when it is from trans people or certain cultures, yet when it is from someone like Trump (who I despise) then they (rightly) call it out.
    I think I probably agree with most of second wave feminism, but still, not everything.
    I mean, you're right, but you seem too worked up over a small group of ppl.

    I've seen more people whine about the "overly pc left" than actual "overly pc left". This rhetoric that they exist in predominant numbers is pretty damaging.
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    Lol, no feminists have got the right idea.

    It is a hypocritical and sexist ideology.
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    (Original post by Jimbo Jones)
    from what I know, the core principles of radical feminism are:
    1) women are sexually oppressed/objectified by men, and hence, radical feminists (i.e. mackinnon) are anti-sex, or anti-prostitution
    2) there is a patriarchy that subjects women to a glass ceiling and women are seen as inferior in the workplace
    3) the personal is political (millet); things that happen to women in private affect all women everywhere in a cultural way, and so on
    4) equality before the law doesn't go far enough and women ought to be absolutely equal in all manners in society, effectively removing the culture of gender entirely

    am I mistaken?

    if so, please explain

    if not, how can you endorse such a school of feminism? women are plainly not "oppressed", women have power in their sexuality, and women these days are actually more likely to be hired, especially in STEM, than men. equality of outcome is not merit based, so how can you equalise women and men when they all make individual-based choices? do you think you'll only get to totalitarian egalitarianism by removing gender as a culture? because how else will you stop men and women making choices based on their gender? how will you separate biology from sex (or gender) as well?
    Exactly, not "plainly". And only up until they have kids. Then they are on the mummy track. Then they get left to do the childcare, etc. Choices are never individual-based in a society. And that last part shows you have no idea whatsoever. Have you not been following the trans debate? TRAs, liberal feminists like EverydayFeminism, intersectional feminists all follow the dogma that sex is irrelevant, biology is irrelevant, feelings are all that matter, whereas radfems will argue biology determines your sex, not at all that the two separate.
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    (Original post by Pretty Flako)
    I mean, you're right, but you seem too worked up over a small group of ppl.

    I've seen more people whine about the "overly pc left" than actual "overly pc left". This rhetoric that they exist in predominant numbers is pretty damaging.
    They are on campuses everywhere and in social media. I would not underestimate them.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Exactly, not "plainly". And only up until they have kids. Then they are on the mummy track. Then they get left to do the childcare, etc.
    they don't have to be.

    Choices are never individual-based in a society.
    yes there are. culture is an influence but not a determinant.

    And that last part shows you have no idea whatsoever.
    calm down, billy

    Have you not been following the trans debate? TRAs, liberal feminists like EverydayFeminism, intersectional feminists all follow the dogma that sex is irrelevant, biology is irrelevant, feelings are all that matter, whereas radfems will argue biology determines your sex, not at all that the two separate.
    except it's not just* radical feminists that tend* to argue that. liberal and socialist feminists surely do as well. inter-sectional feminism doesn't inherently make the statement that gender is a social construct, or else how can they possibly argue that black people are oppressed when it is nothing but a social construct that they must be clearly free to escape from? if gender is a social construct, then so must be race, religion, sexuality and so on - so how is it so determining if they can just simply give it up if they so choose? if gender is a social construct, I can decide to become a woman right now simply via my declaration. if I want to be a chinese* woman, then by this fact, I can also do that. if I want to be 4 years old, the same applies. maybe we're seeing the same thing here in that intersectional feminism is delusional or at the very least contradictory in comparison to radical feminism? I mean, if women cannot escape their biologies and hence are inherently oppressed by men whom are not, then it's not a social construct that is to blame (somehow) but rather women themselves, and not men, because it is their* sex that is to blame, not men's. if they have to give birth and so on, stunting their potential, then how do they possibly get equality other than through a patronising form of equality which is in the lens of "women are weak. give them more"? how is that a feminist narrative? I'll never know
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    (Original post by Jimbo Jones)
    they don't have to be.
    I think if you took the time to inform yourself, you might realize that yes, some women love being at home and feel privileged they don't have to work. But an awful lot gradually slipped into that role, step by step. At first it's taking all the maternity leave. Then it's going back to work and the boss knowing "well she will always run home to the kid". No boss will think a man will need to run home (yes, more and more do, but it's still not a socially acknowledged thing). Then if a second kid comes, repeat, and it basically doesn't make sense for the woman to work, that will barely cover childcare costs, and she will simply be overworked etc. There was a very interesting and enlightening thread elsewhere just on this issue.


    yes there are. culture is an influence but not a determinant.
    Ok I see what you mean and I find it lame semantics.



    calm down, billy
    What am I missing here?

    except it's not just* radical feminists that tend* to argue that. liberal and socialist feminists surely do as well. inter-sectional feminism doesn't inherently make the statement that gender is a social construct, or else how can they possibly argue that black people are oppressed when it is nothing but a social construct that they must be clearly free to escape from? if gender is a social construct, then so must be race, religion, sexuality and so on - so how is it so determining if they can just simply give it up if they so choose? if gender is a social construct, I can decide to become a woman right now simply via my declaration.
    And you haven't been following recent trends, have you? That is exactly what they are arguing now...

    if I want to be a chinese* woman, then by this fact, I can also do that. if I want to be 4 years old, the same applies. maybe we're seeing the same thing here in that intersectional feminism is delusional or at the very least contradictory in comparison to radical feminism?
    And transracial counter points have been brought up but summarily dismissed by TRAs (trans rights activists). Because "gender is fluid and race isn't". Their words, not mine.

    I mean, if women cannot escape their biologies and hence are inherently oppressed by men whom are not, then it's not a social construct that is to blame (somehow) but rather women themselves, and not men, because it is their* sex that is to blame, not men's. if they have to give birth and so on, stunting their potential, then how do they possibly get equality other than through a patronising form of equality which is in the lens of "women are weak. give them more"? how is that a feminist narrative? I'll never know
    Really? I don't think you will find any argue "women are weak". In the metaphoric sense, obviously. And while I agree with the rest of your post, I suddenly don't follow at all anymore. Not sure I can answer here.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    I think if you took the time to inform yourself, you might realize that yes, some women love being at home and feel privileged they don't have to work. But an awful lot gradually slipped into that role, step by step. At first it's taking all the maternity leave. Then it's going back to work and the boss knowing "well she will always run home to the kid". No boss will think a man will need to run home (yes, more and more do, but it's still not a socially acknowledged thing).
    but the law protects men's rights to paternity leave so they literally have to acknowledge that. also: our culture is changing on this issue. not quickly, but slowly. if rad fems want sexual equality, then they have to let men be 'stay at homes' as well.

    Then if a second kid comes, repeat, and it basically doesn't make sense for the woman to work, that will barely cover childcare costs, and she will simply be overworked etc. There was a very interesting and enlightening thread elsewhere just on this issue.
    again: she doesn't have to be the stay at home parent - what if she has dreams n' ****?

    Ok I see what you mean and I find it lame semantics.
    oh right so you must be saying that cultures do not change by the acts of individuals via their particular expressions upon their respective society. ah.

    What am I missing here?
    a south park reference

    And you haven't been following recent trends, have you? That is exactly what they are arguing now...
    I know. that was my pitch. it is a bad thing that a lot of them *do* say it.

    And transracial counter points have been brought up but summarily dismissed by TRAs (trans rights activists). Because "gender is fluid and race isn't". Their words, not mine.
    again, I'm in agreement with you here then - that's why I implied that much in my last message towards the end

    Really? I don't think you will find any argue "women are weak". In the metaphoric sense, obviously. And while I agree with the rest of your post, I suddenly don't follow at all anymore. Not sure I can answer here.
    I'm merely saying that, as a matter of deduction, women aren't equal to men if feminists in either camp of feminism are admitting that they can't have an appearance of equality without state intervention - they can't merely be "individuals" - they must be a special group instead.
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    To answer the original question... No feminists have got the right idea😂!!!
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So you are a radfem? That's fantastic. Sadly people think the word radical implies they are man haters or they are extreme, often also confuse them with the liberal morons.

    EverydayFeminism does more harm to women than good.
    I am yes
 
 
 
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