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Does wearing a poppy glorify war? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Will you wear a poppy for remembrance day?
    Definitely, it shows respect
    732
    43.91%
    Yes, it's expected of me
    150
    9.00%
    No, I remember in other ways
    503
    30.17%
    No, it glorifies war
    282
    16.92%

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    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    But your friends kill people too. It is exactly the same thing, however much you don't want to believe it. Even if they don't use young children, they still point guns at human beings and pull the trigger.
    Don’t you understand that there’s no other way to STOP the bad guys that are killing the innocent children? If not kill them what else would you propose be done? Just ask them nicely? I️ doubt that would have any effect, so please let me know what magical solution you think there is
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    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    But your friends kill people too. It is exactly the same thing, however much you don't want to believe it. Even if they don't use young children, they still point guns at human beings and pull the trigger.
    by the why your noting more than a terrorist sympathizer who so much of bigot you call service people murders. You should by ashamed of yourself.
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    (Original post by oliviaminor)
    Don’t you understand that there’s no other way to STOP the bad guys that are killing the innocent children? If not kill them what else would you propose be done? Just ask them nicely? I️ doubt that would have any effect, so please let me know what magical solution you think there is
    This made me giggle.
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    Glorified war that’s ridiculous. It symbolises the people that died for our country. I have worn poppy and I’m extremely against war.
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    (Original post by oliviaminor)
    Don’t you understand that there’s no other way to STOP the bad guys that are killing the innocent children? If not kill them what else would you propose be done? Just ask them nicely? I️ doubt that would have any effect, so please let me know what magical solution you think there is
    I do understand, I'm perfectly capable of rational thought. I just don't think the armed forces should be seen as heroes when they murder people. Even if they do it for the right reasons, they had a choice to go into a war zone or not in the first place. People don't understand that I can understand why people HAVE to do something, but still not like or accept the choice. It's just an example of why I don't support the army, and why I am a pacifist. I'm not going to stop them doing anything, I just don't support them. Christ... I'm not even asking for them to be persecuted, I'm just saying that I view the people that go into the army and kill anyone to be murderers. I'm not asking you to change your opinion, I'm just stating my own.
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    (Original post by looloo2134)
    by the why your noting more than a terrorist sympathizer who so much of bigot you call service people murders. You should by ashamed of yourself.
    A bigot means someone who is intolerant of people holding different opinions to them. Pray tell me, when I have actually attacked anyone for holding ideas other to my own, here? Oh wait, I think that's more you. Throughout this conversation, I have never criticised your point of view, and I have made an effort to understand it. Being a pacifist and against the military hardly makes me a terrorist sympathiser. It just means that I don't think war should go on - again, that doesn't mean that I don't know that it happens. I know I can't change anything about that.

    I understand your personal point of view, and I have taken your opinions on board in an effort to understand why you feel so strongly opposed to me. However, if you want me to take you more seriously, get a good spell checker and a dictionary.
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    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    A bigot means someone who is intolerant of people holding different opinions to them. Pray tell me, when I have actually attacked anyone for holding ideas other to my own, here? Oh wait, I think that's more you. Throughout this conversation, I have never criticised your point of view, and I have made an effort to understand it. Being a pacifist and against the military hardly makes me a terrorist sympathiser. It just means that I don't think war should go on - again, that doesn't mean that I don't know that it happens. I know I can't change anything about that.

    I understand your personal point of view, and I have taken your opinions on board in an effort to understand why you feel so strongly opposed to me. However, if you want me to take you more seriously, get a good spell checker and a dictionary.
    I got dyslexia and disabled by the why there a lots spelling problem in your texts but I not nasty spoil child who thinks it ok to point other people mistakes to belittle them.

    You are because intolerant to people who fight in the army services by calling them murder which they are not. "Murder is the deliberate and illegal killing of a person"
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    First: Both me and my 5 year old son wears Poppies all year long as a sign of respect to ALL fallen soldiers. Past and present day. Instead of expecting everybody to do that all that is asked is for others who do not wear it every day to take 2 minutes out of 1 day a year to do the same and to wear a Poppy out of respect.
    Second: The armed forces have a code of conduct to abide by and they have to follow the Geneva Convention. Do you even know what these are? Whereas Muslim Countries are not hampered by the Geneva Convention.
    Instead of listening to the Media’s (that is only interested in ratings instead of the truth) it might be better for you to join and find out for yourself!
    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    But your friends kill people too. It is exactly the same thing, however much you don't want to believe it. Even if they don't use young children, they still point guns at human beings and pull the trigger.
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    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    I'm not asking you to change your opinion, I'm just stating my own.
    No you're not. As mentioned before, you're expressing facts. And those facts are wrong. Which is why you're getting called out on them.

    You are (repeatedly) using discreet legal terms in an improper context, and every time you continue to do so you only make your argument look less credible.
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    The fact people refuse to wear a poppy because it 'glorifies war' is ridiculous. World War I and World War II... millions of service personnel were forced into conscription, and millions paid the ultimate price. There's nothing glorious about that. I wear my pin-badge poppy all year around, with pride.
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    (Original post by Juanita1975)
    First: Both me and my 5 year old son wears Poppies all year long as a sign of respect to ALL fallen soldiers. Past and present day. Instead of expecting everybody to do that all that is asked is for others who do not wear it every day to take 2 minutes out of 1 day a year to do the same and to wear a Poppy out of respect.
    Second: The armed forces have a code of conduct to abide by and they have to follow the Geneva Convention. Do you even know what these are? Whereas Muslim Countries are not hampered by the Geneva Convention.
    Instead of listening to the Media’s (that is only interested in ratings instead of the truth) it might be better for you to join and find out for yourself!
    I haven't heard of the Geneva Convention before - well, I have in passing - but I can say that I do know what they are now. Thanks for letting me know about them, that's very enlightening. However, I don't think the army would want me there, considering that I'm literally the worst enemy of all authority, as I'm female and LGBT+ I don't think they'd be particularly receptive to me either and my fitness level has been at an all-time low since I got a Netflix account. That and I'm a pacifist, so I think we'd disagree on a lot of matters.

    I say they're murderers because they do kill people. I understand now that the legal definition of murder maybe doesn't completely apply, but the deliberate part does, at least. Of course, people fighting on the other side are also people I see as murderers for killing people. I know a lot of people who are rightfully angry at opposing sides to ours for killing our people who are out there and would call them murderers for it. I'm sure there are families in Syria, and Afghanistan, who would say the same things about our people. People are people, everyone has human rights. We can't villainise one side without villianising our own - they do the same job, they kill the same people, families are torn apart, no matter who is dying.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    No you're not. As mentioned before, you're expressing facts. And those facts are wrong. Which is why you're getting called out on them.

    You are (repeatedly) using discreet legal terms in an improper context, and every time you continue to do so you only make your argument look less credible.
    I addressed this in my previous comment. I wasn't aware that murder was classed as a legal term, I took it at face value to mean the act of killing somebody. I'm trying to express my opinion above anything else, I've posted a lot here so I don't have time to go back and check all of my facts. But apart from saying that the Legion gives money to the army - which I have now understood and accepted is false, although I am still slightly dubious as to whether my source was completely correct - I cannot remember ever stating anything that I have presented as a fact. My opinion that people in the army, all armies, who kill other human beings are murderers, was never presented as anything other than my opinion.

    I really don't understand how not wanting to wear a poppy, and not supporting the army, can lead to this. Literally, I don't know why everybody has a problem with what I believe in. I don't have a problem with people who think the armed forces are amazing people, or who wear a poppy all year for some reason or another. I have never said so. But it seems that my own views are somehow wrong, just because they don't fit into what you all believe.

    I hope me openly accepting that I have been wrong helps you to understand me a little better, and that it will stop you trying to persuade me out of my opinion, because I've held it for long enough that it probably ain't going to change anytime soon.
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    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    However, I don't think the army would want me there, considering that I'm ... female and LGBT+ I don't think they'd be particularly receptive to me either
    Again, showing how little you know about them. Women have been involved in the armed forces for 100 years, and being LGBT+ wouldn't affect a damn thing. They turn up at every pride event in bigger numbers than any national employer.


    I say they're murderers because they do kill people. I understand now that the legal definition of murder maybe doesn't completely apply
    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    I addressed this in my previous comment. I wasn't aware that murder was classed as a legal term, I took it at face value to mean the act of killing somebody..

    My opinion that people in the army, all armies, who kill other human beings are murderers, was never presented as anything other than my opinion.
    You're doing it again. Literally the second after saying you were wrong, you repeat the thing you're wrong about...

    You cannot use a discreet legal term, a word that actually has a real meaning, and present it as opinion.

    That's not what opinions are.

    No one's trying to dissuade you of an opinion. What we're trying - seemingly in vain - to do is explain that your opinion is quantifiably wrong, because it's not an opinion when it's based on incorrect facts.
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    The below article pretty much sums up the reasons why some people don't wear the poppy:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34720464

    I agree with the first THREE points - and until these issues have been mended, I wont be wearing one.
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    The poppy shouldn't be something people feel pressured to wear, but certainly everyone should consider it. It's a beautiful flower and a brilliant symbol for the many military and civilian lives lost in war. The flower is as vibrant as the lives that were lost. It's absolutely not a symbol glorifying or advocating war; but it's not just a symbol of remembrance either. We should recognise that it heralds the atrocity that war is.

    Buying and wearing a poppy and donating to the British legion supports veterans and current soldiers. While you're complaining that the poppy advocates war, there are soldiers fighting for you. For goodness sake, grow up and support the men and women that fight so that you don't have to.
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    (Original post by Tempest II)
    I'm a tad confused how you can say that the RBL directly funds conflicts. I don't exactly think that they buy Hellfire or Brimstone missiles for the MOD for example.

    They provide help to serving members of the UK Armed Forces & Veterans - financial, emotional and social support. I'm not sure how you can think this to be a particularly negative thing to do. If you can find me proof that they directly fund wars then I'd love to see it.
    I'm sure they don't have malicious intent in their funding choices. However it is definitely dubious to be providing support for soldiers who entirely volunteered to enter these dangerous areas and by all rights ought to be taken care of by the MOD themselves.

    I personally do not wish to support this kind of funding. That is why I don't donate to RBL. I think everyone should form their own opinion when choosing exactly where to donate their money.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    I'm sure they don't have malicious intent in their funding choices. However it is definitely dubious to be providing support for soldiers who entirely volunteered to enter these dangerous areas and by all rights ought to be taken care of by the MOD themselves.

    I personally do not wish to support this kind of funding. That is why I don't donate to RBL. I think everyone should form their own opinion when choosing exactly where to donate their money.
    [Citation needed]
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    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    Never said I wasn't remembering our war dead, I just choose to remember all of the people who have died. Next time, grow up a little and read everything I say before you rant about how I don't conform to how you think everyone should be thinking
    Bro don't hit me with that smiley face and what do you mean grow up? By extension you're telling all of to older people who agree with me to do that too which is ironic considering you're using an app for students. Also it's not up to you who you choose to remember; it's about respecting something unarguably significant. Every time you flaunt an opinion bear in mind that young men died for that.
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    (Original post by EllieCeeJay)
    But your friends kill people too. It is exactly the same thing, however much you don't want to believe it. Even if they don't use young children, they still point guns at human beings and pull the trigger.
    Oh shut up about 'human beings'. Humans aren't all good you know so don't go on as if it's bad to kill people who really deserve it, like rapists or murderers.
 
 
 
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