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Cultural Appropriation watch

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    What do you think of it?

    Why is it an issue now?

    I'm interested to hear what people think of it (For my focus group)
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    (Original post by Linnnster)
    What do you think of it?

    Why is it an issue now?

    I'm interested to hear what people think of it (For my focus group)
    Cultural appreciation is good, cultural appropriation is bad, to me.

    Nobody would find offence if someone truly appreciates another person's food, lifestyle, language or culture. What annoys people is the subtle or outright mocking of other people's cultures.

    For example, why would someone decide to wear a "blackface" or afro wig or asian attribute or cowboy outfit or native indian outfit on halloween?

    It is find to appreciate others, just don't mock them.
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    Depends in what context. However, many people are hypocrites when accusing others of cultural appropriation
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    (Original post by iwant2die)
    Depends in what context. However, many people are hypocrites when accusing others of cultural appropriation
    Can you give examples?
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Cultural appreciation is good, cultural appropriation is bad, to me.

    Nobody would find offence if someone truly appreciates another person's food, lifestyle, language or culture. What annoys people is the subtle or outright mocking of other people's cultures.

    For example, why would someone decide to wear a "blackface" or afro wig or asian attribute or cowboy outfit or native indian outfit on halloween?

    It is find to appreciate others, just don't mock them.
    I guess it's difficult to know the difference between appreciation and ignorance perhaps

    Like, what does appreciation look like?
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    (Original post by Linnnster)
    I guess it's difficult to know the difference between appreciation and ignorance perhaps

    Like, what does appreciation look like?
    I saw a woman, who wore an African beaded necklace on the train once. When asked, she said she had visited Kenya and had a great time. I think that shows appreciation of a culture.

    Appropriation in a mocking way is when a group of white British persons decide to dress up in an African dress with black faces for halloween then say they are dressing like the guys in the cool runnings movie.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...07.IAneNH_N-9w
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I saw a woman, who wore an African beaded necklace on the train once. When asked, she said she had visited Kenya and had a great time. I think that shows appreciation of a culture.

    Appropriation in a mocking way is when a group of white British persons decide to dress up in an African dress with black faces for halloween then say they are dressing like the guys in the cool runnings movie.

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...07.IAneNH_N-9w
    So would you say that it's also linked to racism? It's quite similiar to the Dutch "Black Pete" where they also dress up and wear black face paint and act as slaves for St. Nicholas

    Sometimes, whenever I see people (E.g. White British) wearing clothes with Chinese characters on them because they think it looks really cool. I really wonder if they know what it means at all and if they can read it... to me I think that's kind of bad
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    (Original post by Linnnster)
    So would you say that it's also linked to racism? It's quite similiar to the Dutch "Black Pete" where they also dress up and wear black face paint and act as slaves for St. Nicholas

    Sometimes, whenever I see people (E.g. White British) wearing clothes with Chinese characters on them because they think it looks really cool. I really wonder if they know what it means at all and if they can read it... to me I think that's kind of bad
    If anyone likes and appreciate other cultures, it is absolutely fine. What people hate is mocking appropriation of any race, religion or culture.
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    Sometimes, I feel sorry for the caucasian male. It seems they are the only possible sinners in todays society.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Cultural appreciation is good, cultural appropriation is bad, to me.

    Nobody would find offence if someone truly appreciates another person's food, lifestyle, language or culture. What annoys people is the subtle or outright mocking of other people's cultures.

    For example, why would someone decide to wear a "blackface" or afro wig or asian attribute or cowboy outfit or native indian outfit on halloween?

    It is find to appreciate others, just don't mock them.
    I've heard Brahmin-descended people bemoan white men doing Sanskrit before, but it is an extreme example (and a lot of those guys are outright bigoted to anybody that isn't a Brahmin).
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    (Original post by gjd800)
    I've heard Brahmin-descended people bemoan white men doing Sanskrit before, but it is an extreme example (and a lot of those guys are outright bigoted to anybody that isn't a Brahmin).
    Bigotry is bad. I don't know the details of the case you mentioned, so i would not want to comment in a manner that would suggest ignorance.

    I think if the people were appreciation the art of the Brahmin, then it should be accepted. If it was appropriation then it should be rejected imo.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    Bigotry is bad. I don't know the details of the case you mentioned, so i would not want to comment in a manner that would suggest ignorance.

    I think if the people were appreciation the art of the Brahmin, then it should be accepted. If it was appropriation then it should be rejected imo.
    They (not all Brahmins, but a sizeable amount) basically believe that Sanskrit is a language that should only ever be known by the priestly class (i.e them), and so anybody else learning it is against nature/against their religious rules. It's a hangover from caste division, really. Serves mainly to reinforce their dominion and power over religious interpretation and so over religious adherents.

    They believe this to be the case for other Indians, but they take special umbrage at a white Westerner doing it. It's very silly, but I have experienced this numerous times, even on Facebook, believe it or not!

    I guess the point I am making is do other people see this as appropriation in the way that they do? It seems obvious to me that it isn't, but I am interested in other opinions.
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    (Original post by Linnnster)
    So would you say that it's also linked to racism? It's quite similiar to the Dutch "Black Pete" where they also dress up and wear black face paint and act as slaves for St. Nicholas

    Sometimes, whenever I see people (E.g. White British) wearing clothes with Chinese characters on them because they think it looks really cool. I really wonder if they know what it means at all and if they can read it... to me I think that's kind of bad
    What if they bought the clothes from a Chinese company? Does it matter that they don't know what it means?

    Is it then cultural appropriation when Chinese people wear slogans in English that they don't necessarily understand?
    http://www.thatsmags.com/china/post/...ords-on-shirts
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    (Original post by gjd800)
    They (not all Brahmins, but a sizeable amount) basically believe that Sanskrit is a language that should only ever be known by the priestly class (i.e them), and so anybody else learning it is against nature/against their religious rules. It's a hangover from caste division, really. Serves mainly to reinforce their dominion and power over religious interpretation and so over religious adherents.

    They believe this to be the case for other Indians, but they take special umbrage at a white Westerner doing it. It's very silly, but I have experienced this numerous times, even on Facebook, believe it or not!

    I guess the point I am making is do other people see this as appropriation in the way that they do? It seems obvious to me that it isn't, but I am interested in other opinions.
    If they dont want you to appreciate their culture then dont. Why is it that some people like to force themselves on others. You have your own culture, appreciate that one. We should not be getting bothered that people dont want us to use their culture.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    If they dont want you to appreciate their culture then dont. Why is it that some people like to force themselves on others. You have your own culture, appreciate that one. We should not be getting bothered that people dont want us to use their culture.
    Ok, so should I be able to dictate who does and does not read/speak English? This response is inconsistent with your previous replies, it seems.
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    (Original post by gjd800)
    Ok, so should I be able to dictate who does and does not read/speak English?
    If you can do it, then watch how the global influence of the UK perishes with the language.

    Simple minded people are not clever enough to understand that sharing your culture is power. Half of the world or even more speak English and absorb Western culture. There are more people speaking English than their mother language. Not appropriation but appreciation is key.

    I guarantee that sanskrit would be completely dead, if it is not shared with more people. Just think about Latin, Olde English, Old Greek, Ancient Hebrew etc.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    If you can do it, then watch how the global influence of the UK perishes with the language.

    Simple minded people are not clever enough to understand that sharing your culture is power. Half of the world or even more speak English and absorb Western culture. There are more people speaking English than their mother language. Not appropriation but appreciation is key.

    I guarantee that sanskrit would be completely dead, if it is not shared with more people. Just think about Latin, Olde English, Old Greek, Ancient Hebrew etc.
    So first you tell me not to do Skt. because some uppity Brahmins feel like their authority is threatened, then you say Skt. should be shared lest it die (it pretty much has outside of liturgical and state-level legal contexts).

    Perhaps you could clarify precisely what it is that you arguing here? You seem confused.
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    (Original post by gjd800)
    So first you tell me not to do Skt. because some uppity Brahmins feel like their authority is threatened, then you say Skt. should be shared lest it die (it pretty much has outside of liturgical and state-level legal contexts).

    Perhaps you could clarify precisely what it is that you arguing here? You seem confused.
    I am not confused. You are emotional and it is clouding your judgement.

    I believe in the appreciation of other people and their cultures. However, if someone does not want me to appreciate their culture, then i focus on mine and those of others open to appreciation. Failure to share one’s culture create risk of culture demise.

    Is this a better explanation?

    To your point, i think the majority of people will dominate in the end. If the sanskrit is not shared with the majority, then the majority will find a different language to engage in. Hence causing the demise of the language.
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    (Original post by Wired_1800)
    I am not confused. You are emotional and it is clouding your judgement.

    I believe in the appreciation of other people and their cultures. However, if someone does not want me to appreciate their culture, then i focus on mine and those of others open to appreciation. Failure to share one’s culture create risk of culture demise.

    Is this a better explanation?

    To your point, i think the majority of people will dominate in the end. If the sanskrit is not shared with the majority, then the majority will find a different language to engage in. Hence causing the demise of the language.
    Emotional? Not quite!

    Right. Take a white Westerner out of the equation for a second. Why should a group of elites be able to determine who can and cannot achieve literacy in a language that affects everybody in that society (at least in a historical context)?

    Second, once people of that culture (viz. living under Brahminism) push back against this and teach, write and speak in a language that the minority say they are not allowed to, why does that minority again get to dictate terms that the newer majority do not agree with or to?

    Third, once we have a situation where the language is spoken and understood by divergent religious and social groups (Brahmana, Bauddha, Jaina, not to mention the Vedāntins etc.) that a) do not place any emphasis on a caste system, b) do not regard their language as holy, c) freely translate their texts into the other regional mainstream languages, and continue this for 1000 years, why then can or should an even smaller minority of Brahmins be able to a) claim that same language exclusively as their own, b) demand nobody else learn it, c) be protected by people such as yourself when they make these claims?
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    It is easy to see these things in black and white. In reality they very seldom are.
 
 
 
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