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    'Shabba'
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    (Original post by Tootles)
    This is why people don't take believers seriously.

    Folks, I'm not with Racoon.

    That's fine. I believe in the biblical account of creation and you choose not to. Its good to be civilised about our views.
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    (Original post by Pigster)
    Evolution, of all scientific theories, has the most evidence supporting it and currently no evidence showing it to be false. As far as science can prove anything as fact, it is easily the best candidate.
    We are going off topic but as it's my thread, what evidence?

    I challenge you to start a new thread and give me indisputable evidence for evolution that will convert me from my beliefs.

    I'll look forward to delving into it.
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    Back to the false prophets please ........
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    that will convert me from my beliefs.
    My guess is that nothing will convert you from your beliefs.
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    I thought it was something like "see you never suckers".
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    (Original post by Racoon)
    That's fine. I believe in the biblical account of creation and you choose not to. Its good to be civilised about our views.
    You believe, we follow the evidence. Stop making it out like it's a choice not to.

    "I choose not to believe in fairies" is an equally ridiculous statements as "I choose not to believe in god".
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    (Original post by Charliewiz)
    It is not a personal insult to say that you are uneducated when you clearly just presented the evidence by denying evolution. Ignorange is not a choice in todays society.
    What do you say about people who used to believe in evolution but now do not? Are they uneducated? Or would you dismiss them as over educated, for looking at both sides of the coin before deciding?
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    You believe, we follow the evidence. Stop making it out like it's a choice not to.

    "I choose not to believe in fairies" is an equally ridiculous statements as "I choose not to believe in god".
    Yes but where do you get your evidence from? Man perhaps? Have you ever considered that the evidence might be corrupted? This is a simple case of you trusting in man whereas Racoon and myself put our trust in God and His word. The choice is who we put our faith in. Why would you put you faith in man? Look at Piltdown man, where we have Teilhard de Chardin placing an orangutan jawbone on a human skull, forging this so called fossil record. But you put your faith in these people who are out to deceive, false prophets.

    But you don't ask yourself the obvious question - Why would a Jesuit priest be attempting to prove evolution?
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    (Original post by Drummond)
    Yes but where do you get your evidence from? Man perhaps? Have you ever considered that the evidence might be corrupted? This is a simple case of you trusting in man whereas Racoon and myself put our trust in God and His word. The choice is who we put our faith in. Why would you put you faith in man? Look at Piltdown man, where we have Teilhard de Chardin placing an orangutan jawbone on a human skull, forging this so called fossil record. But you put your faith in these people who are out to deceive, false prophets.

    But you don't ask yourself the obvious question - Why would a Jesuit priest be attempting to prove evolution?
    I trust the same method that tells me it's safe to go on a plane to tell me evolution is real.

    I don't put my trust in a book from two millennia ago written and rewritten by madmen.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    I trust the same method that tells me it's safe to go on a plane to tell me evolution is real.

    I don't put my trust in a book from two millennia ago written and rewritten by madmen.
    So you decide to put your trust in men who are engineering the belief system which you live in and have been caught red handed doing it? Who really are the madmen?
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    (Original post by Drummond)
    So you decide to put your trust in men who are engineering the belief system which you live in and have been caught red handed doing it? Who really are the madmen?
    I believe in the scientific method. You believe in madmen whose entire point of writing was to subjugate the populace under their control.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    I believe in the scientific method. You believe in madmen whose entire point of writing was to subjugate the populace under their control.
    And who are these madmen which you speak of? Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Luke, Paul? If you think they are mad, then what about the people who read them, knowing that it is the inspired word of God, are they mad too?
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    (Original post by Drummond)
    And who are these madmen which you speak of? Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Luke, Paul? If you think they are mad, then what about the people who read them, knowing that it is the inspired word of God, are they mad too?
    No, don't you even know the history of your own bible? It was written and rewritten multiple times in the first AD centuries.

    And yes, needing to believe in god is a form of madness. A delusion to cope with the fact that we have no full understanding of why we are. And a needn't for a "purpose" in life. People who hear voices are mad. People who hear God are so too. It's a collectively accepted madness.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    No, don't you even know the history of your own bible? It was written and rewritten multiple times in the first AD centuries.

    And yes, needing to believe in god is a form of madness. A delusion to cope with the fact that we have no full understanding of why we are. And a needn't for a "purpose" in life. People who hear voices are mad. People who hear God are so too. It's a collectively accepted madness.
    That's right, that's how it worked mate, that's how all the important scriptures were preserved before the printing press, by writing it down. And then when the scroll was getting tatty, it would be rewritten, multiple times by scribes to preserve it.

    There is nothing fascinating about this.
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    (Original post by Drummond)
    That's right, that's how it worked mate, that's how all the important scriptures were preserved before the printing press, by writing it down. And then when the scroll was getting tatty, it would be rewritten, multiple times by scribes to preserve it.

    There is nothing fascinating about this.
    And it means a lot was rewritten or reinterpreted or simply made up. Funny that your are trying to lecture me but fail to show any insight into what you're talking about. Actually not funny. Just sad.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    And it means a lot was rewritten or reinterpreted or simply made up. Funny that your are trying to lecture me but fail to show any insight into what you're talking about. Actually not funny. Just sad.
    Do you want to give an example of what you think was made up mate? I didn't realise atheists had such a great knowledge of the scriptures and biblical history. I myself had no interest in bible history when i was an atheist. I didn't tend to think about faith let alone want to discuss it, because i didn't believe. It would have seemed wasted energy. And i certainly didn't go out of my way to find believers and strive and insult them.
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    (Original post by Drummond)
    Do you want to give an example of what you think was made up mate? I didn't realise atheists had such a great knowledge of the scriptures and biblical history. I myself had no interest in bible history when i was an atheist. I didn't tend to think about faith let alone want to discuss it, because i didn't believe. It would have seemed wasted energy. And i certainly didn't go out of my way to find believers and strive and insult them.
    Pretty sure you can figure out yourself what was made up.

    Clearly you are happy to be ignorant. Don't judge others by your own low standards.

    I didn't go out of my way. A thread popped up I clicked on it. Wasn't that hard.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Pretty sure you can figure out yourself what was made up.

    Clearly you are happy to be ignorant. Don't judge others by your own low standards.

    I didn't go out of my way. A thread popped up I clicked on it. Wasn't that hard.
    Well seeing as you have arrived and are here with us in this thread which glorifies our God and our Creator, then let me help you with understanding if i may, so that you don't leave here ignorant.

    Nothing in the true word of God has been made up. Yes you are correct, many verses, if not all, have been attacked at some point throughout time by reinterpretation. The true word of God is God breathed, written by men of God and understood by others with the Spirit of God. This Spirit, the spirit of truth, enables us to discern what is the correct interpretation of the Word and which is maliciously engineered to lead us away from the truth of exactly what God is trying to show us.

    You will not understand this as you do not have the Spirit of God in you because you do not believe in God. Faith is a gift from God, not from being a good person and doing good works, because nobody is good, apart from God.
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    (Original post by ThatOldGuy)
    What? On the Origin of Species is a century behind the times. Why would you quote that as the reason Evolution is 'basically a proven fact'.

    The most compelling evidence for evolution is actually in the fossil record. When you get to the oldest parts of the world, you see the simplest organisms. Cyanobacteria is the oldest at 3.5 billion years old.

    That said, there are 'holes' in the fossil record you could drive a truck through and, even if there weren't, there are questions that should be asked of evolution:

    1) (With apologies to people who are going to say 'Abiogenesis isn't evolution!', but it has been conflated and so should be addressed) - The initial step from non-living biological matter to living biological matter has never been observed in a controlled environment.

    2) There has never been an example seen in a controlled environment of cells that previously had no disposition towards cooperation to suddenly and spontaneously cooperate.

    3) There has never been an example seen in a controlled environment of cells that did not have a previous disposition towards specialization suddenly specializing, or of those with no disposition towards pseudo specialization to suddenly pseudo specialize.

    The obvious counter-argument to those is, "But ThatOldGuy - It took perhaps the entire universe billions of years for life to evolve randomly. We have been watching for signs for maybe a century. It is highly unlikely we'd see any of that" and that is a decent argument, but what we have is essentially a religion that those things happened because 'They had to'.

    Evolution is the most likely scenario based on our current evidence - And the evidence is considerable - But those questions being asked are very important and could still change radically our ideas.
    I was quoting on origin of species as a basis as you can understand the thought process behind evolution
 
 
 
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