Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    I trust the same method that tells me it's safe to go on a plane to tell me evolution is real.

    I don't put my trust in a book from two millennia ago written and rewritten by madmen.
    A few years ago I was lucky enough to visit Israel and went to the Museum of the Dead Sea scrolls.

    In 1947 Scrolls that had been stored in clay pots, in caves, were discovered. They date from the 5th century BC to the 1st century AD.

    Jewish scribes maintained the site. The Dead Sea Scrolls represent nearly every book of the Old Testament, comparisons with recent manuscripts show them to be virtually identical, no evidence of 'a lot was rewritten or reinterpreted'. The main differences are minor things like the spellings of names.

    It's evidence of the accuracy and preservation of the Old Testament. This is the same Old Testament used by Jesus.

    Sir Frederic Kenyon, former director and principal librarian of the British Museum, a historical expert has said 'both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established.' also.

    The madmen you refer to?

    Moses was a political leader, if you look into his earlier life, treated as a pharaoh's son, trained in the highest schools and universities of Egypt.
    Joshua was a military general.
    Daniel, again highly educated, had a role similar to a prime minister, serving under the King.
    Solomon and David were Kings
    Matthew was a tax collector for the Roman Empire.
    Luke was a physician and Paul was a rabbi.

    Just a few examples of these madmen.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    Daniel was a prime minister
    .
    Wut.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by stoyfan)
    Wut.
    Daniel was highly educated and was chosen to stand before the king in one of the highest government positions. A role like today's prime minister.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    Daniel was highly educated and was chosen to stand before the king in one of the highest government positions. A role like today's prime minister.
    I agree with you.In fact I'd say Daniel was much higher than a Prime Minister in terms of his impact he had to the king.

    Nebuchadnezzar held Daniel with high regard, especially after how he explained the dream and of course I think I remember reading the event where Nebuchadnezzar saw Daniel with Ezekiel and Moses in a vision.
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dhanny)
    I agree with you.In fact I'd say Daniel was much higher than a Prime Minister in terms of his impact he had to the king.

    Nebuchadnezzar held Daniel with high regard, especially after how he explained the dream and of course I think I remember reading the event where Nebuchadnezzar saw Daniel with Ezekiel and Moses in a vision.
    You're right

    Daniel 6 says

    3 Then this Daniel was preferred above the presidents and princes, because an excellent spirit was in him; and the king thought to set him over the whole realm
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    I have a question for you Racoon.

    I'm open to all religions and I think they all have beauty within them. I've read the bible a long time ago, I've read a lot about Hinduism and Sikhism and a bit of Islam.
    I primarily follow Hinduism.

    So the weird thing is, I follow a religion that came before the scriptures and times of Christ so would this mean I am going against the word of God?
    Posted on the TSR App. Download from Apple or Google Play
    Offline

    5
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drummond)
    Which bible do you use Natalia?
    ESV, and sometimes NIV
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    A few years ago I was lucky enough to visit Israel and went to the Museum of the Dead Sea scrolls.

    In 1947 Scrolls that had been stored in clay pots, in caves, were discovered. They date from the 5th century BC to the 1st century AD.

    Jewish scribes maintained the site. The Dead Sea Scrolls represent nearly every book of the Old Testament, comparisons with recent manuscripts show them to be virtually identical, no evidence of 'a lot was rewritten or reinterpreted'. The main differences are minor things like the spellings of names.

    It's evidence of the accuracy and preservation of the Old Testament. This is the same Old Testament used by Jesus.

    Sir Frederic Kenyon, former director and principal librarian of the British Museum, a historical expert has said 'both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established.' also.

    The madmen you refer to?

    Moses was a political leader, if you look into his earlier life, treated as a pharaoh's son, trained in the highest schools and universities of Egypt.
    Joshua was a military general.
    Daniel, again highly educated, had a role similar to a prime minister, serving under the King.
    Solomon and David were Kings
    Matthew was a tax collector for the Roman Empire.
    Luke was a physician and Paul was a rabbi.

    Just a few examples of these madmen.
    You vastly overstate what they represent. They contain snippets, not whole books. Very dishonest of you.

    What does any of this prove? They believe a human can split water. They are mad. Are they even real, there's no evidence that they are other than stories. And you say "the same Old Testament Jesus used - you're falling into the logical fallacy of assuming that which you set out to prove. Jesus didn't exist so saying this is meaningless.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Dhanny)
    I have a question for you Racoon.

    I'm open to all religions and I think they all have beauty within them. I've read the bible a long time ago, I've read a lot about Hinduism and Sikhism and a bit of Islam.
    I primarily follow Hinduism.

    So the weird thing is, I follow a religion that came before the scriptures and times of Christ so would this mean I am going against the word of God?
    It can seem complex can't it? All I can say is I keep my faith very simple.

    CS Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity:- “The world does not consist of 100 percent Christians and 100 percent non-Christians. There are people (a great many of them) who are slowly ceasing to be Christians but who still call themselves by that name: some of them are clergymen. There are other people who are slowly becoming Christians though they do not yet call themselves so”

    I spoke to a Hindu woman who was visiting someone in hospital and for some reason she told me about how her family had adopted a child with many disabilities from India. She said 'I believe in one god but with many faces'.

    Speaking with her, I feltshe was doing what Jesus tells us to do, to love one another, to prefer someone else's needs to our own. Perhaps she's in that "There are other people who are slowly becoming Christians though they do not yet call themselves so” bit.

    Hinduism seems to gives freedom to approach God in your own way, a multiplicity of paths, not asking for conformity to just one. I look to the word of God which says

    For God so loved the world
    That he gave His only begotten son
    That whosoever believes in Him
    May have everlasting life
    For God didn’t send his son into the world to condemn the world
    But that the world
    Through Him
    Might be saved

    Being a disciple of Christ brings us straight to the throne of God Hebrews 7:27 (ESV) 27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself With salvation being a free gift
    Ephesians 2:8–9 (ESV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    Not all roads lead to God. There are many roads and different paths in our spiritual journey, God says few take the right one, the narrow one

    Matthew 7:13-14 (ESV) 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few

    I'm not sure if this fully answers your question but I hope it gives you some further insight. God bless
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    Obviously I used an absurd example to illustrate the ridiculous thought process of evolution.

    I'm sorry but evolution is not a proven fact. Look into it critically.
    Exactly.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drummond)
    Yes but where do you get your evidence from? Man perhaps? Have you ever considered that the evidence might be corrupted? This is a simple case of you trusting in man whereas Racoon and myself put our trust in God and His word. The choice is who we put our faith in. Why would you put you faith in man? Look at Piltdown man, where we have Teilhard de Chardin placing an orangutan jawbone on a human skull, forging this so called fossil record. But you put your faith in these people who are out to deceive, false prophets.

    But you don't ask yourself the obvious question - Why would a Jesuit priest be attempting to prove evolution?
    Not sure why I didn't pick up on it but yes I put "fish" in "man". Don't you when you fly a plane? When you cross a bridge?

    And what is gods wors? Have you ever heard him talk to you? Your bible was written by men. You're not putting your faith in god but in a story made up by men to control other men.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Jesus didn't exist so saying this is meaningless.
    Jesus did exist. I know atheists are desperate to get rid of BC and AD but, we live in an era which is on record as being 2000+ years AD. Like it or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lived-and-died
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    ...You're nothing but a gullible hypocrite.
    Let's raise the bar please, no insults.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    Jesus did exist. I know atheists are desperate to get rid of BC and AD but, we live in an era which is on record as being 2000+ years AD. Like it or not.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lived-and-died
    I'm morning desperate at all. It's a calendar we might as well stick to.

    No, he didn't. There is zero historical evidence of anyone st that time doing the feats he supposedly did. Also, if anything being from that region and time he wouldn't have been if a dark complexion. Totally different to anything in your churches.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    You vastly overstate what they represent. They contain snippets, not whole books. Very dishonest of you.

    What does any of this prove? They believe a human can split water. They are mad. Are they even real, there's no evidence that they are other than stories. And you say "the same Old Testament Jesus used - you're falling into the logical fallacy of assuming that which you set out to prove. Jesus didn't exist so saying this is meaningless.
    I reply to your post with a long thought out reply and you call me dishonest.

    That takes two seconds of keyboard tapping. Please come back with something to debate.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    I'm morning desperate at all. It's a calendar we might as well stick to.

    No, he didn't. There is zero historical evidence of anyone st that time doing the feats he supposedly did. Also, if anything being from that region and time he wouldn't have been if a dark complexion. Totally different to anything in your churches.
    ? could you reword
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    I reply to your post with a long thought out reply and you call me dishonest.

    That takes two seconds of keyboard tapping. Please come back with something to debate.
    There's is nothing to debate. The scrolls contain a few snippets of the Bible. They do not contain the whole thing. Your argument that they are proof of the original version is thus dishonest. You were making them out to be something they are not to suit your narrative. Why should I bother replying in length to that?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    ? could you reword
    I'm not. Not I'm morning. Since the last update my phone is autocorrecting nonsense.
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Racoon)
    Let's raise the bar please, no insults.
    Did I speak a lie?

    Gullible - believe what men trying to control others wrote in a book two millennia ago. Things that include stuff like resurrection and splitting of water. Funny how nothing of the miraculous feats have been evidenced nor reproduced, ever.

    Hypocrite - accuses me of believing men (scientists) but at the same time does it himself.
    Online

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yudothis)
    Did I speak a lie?

    Gullible - believe what men trying to control others wrote in a book two millennia ago. Things that include stuff like resurrection and splitting of water. Funny how nothing of the miraculous feats have been evidenced nor reproduced, ever.

    Hypocrite - accuses me of believing men (scientists) but at the same time does it himself.
    Excuse me while i correct this, but...

    God split the water at the Red sea and then again at the Jordan.

    Jesus resurrected Himself and Lazarus was resurrected.

    Moses was resurrected.

    Enoch and Elijah were both translated, so they never even experienced death.
 
 
 
Reply
Submit reply
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: November 20, 2017
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    What newspaper do you read/prefer?
    Useful resources

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.