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What are we going to do about the homelessness epidemic & when are we going to do it Watch

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    Right, I'm sick of it now.

    I'm sick of seeing people freezing to death (some of them literally) on the streets, in this day and age.

    Yet there's next to know awareness raised of it.

    Things like Children in Need get shoved down our throats and there's pomp and ceremony and buy this Pudsey badge and donate this £5 via text, but aside from Shelter (and smaller charities) we have no one pushing the issue.

    Now. The homelessness epidemic (for that's what it is, certainly in the city where I live) needs to be addressed. And it seems synonomous with the spike in immigration in the last 5ish years (largely from the African countries). British people should be given priority to housing, no ifs or buts, over someone that has just came into the country.

    The overwhelming majority of homeless peopple on the streets are young white British males.

    Admittedly, there was a lot of vacant properties a long time back, and they were filled with (if you go to these areas you'll notice the demographic) people from Africa and other countries. Now, we have a shortfall where there's an ever-growing population and not enough houses to house them.

    I'd rewrite the script completely, starting from whatever Geneva constitution which was revoked saying that asylum seekers and refugees should go to the nearest safe country.

    I wouldn't give them any benefits til they've stayed here five years, nor would I let them have any priority on housing (you wouldn't jump in front of someone in the queue in the bank so it's the same principle)

    Admittedly some people are homeless through "choice" that is they have became used to the life, they may have alcohol and drug dependcies and mental health issues. Which the government should focus their efforts on instead of spending millions on people fresh into the country.

    The purpose of a government is to look after the needs of it's own people (not the needs of someone who has never lived here, their forefathers never fought to libreate the country in the war, and they've not paid a bean into the pot.

    This is what the working classes of the UK are angry about, and I have always maintained that the British working classes have been forgotten and there's nobody to fight their cause in government. (**** maybe I should become a politician?)

    I made a similar case on another forum and somebody said "build more houses". I'd just say turn the tap off instead of providing more and more buckets for the flood.

    Thoughts?
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    Many of you won't remember, but homelessness was very much like this in the early to mid 90s under the last Tory government. Then Labour came along, increased spending on help for the homeless and people on the streets and said people magically disappeared from our city centres. We have now had 7 years of Tory rule and things are returning to the way things were 20 years ago.
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    Nothing will change regarding the homeless whilst we have a Tory govt. Its that simple. Tories strongly believe in self reliance and therefore aren't going to help those at the very bottom.
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    Revolution. Overthrow the bourgeoisie.
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    Right, I'm sick of it now.

    I'm sick of seeing people freezing to death (some of them literally) on the streets, in this day and age.

    Yet there's next to know awareness raised of it.

    Things like Children in Need get shoved down our throats and there's pomp and ceremony and buy this Pudsey badge and donate this £5 via text, but aside from Shelter (and smaller charities) we have no one pushing the issue.

    Now. The homelessness epidemic (for that's what it is, certainly in the city where I live) needs to be addressed. And it seems synonomous with the spike in immigration in the last 5ish years (largely from the African countries). British people should be given priority to housing, no ifs or buts, over someone that has just came into the country.

    The overwhelming majority of homeless peopple on the streets are young white British males.

    Admittedly, there was a lot of vacant properties a long time back, and they were filled with (if you go to these areas you'll notice the demographic) people from Africa and other countries. Now, we have a shortfall where there's an ever-growing population and not enough houses to house them.

    I'd rewrite the script completely, starting from whatever Geneva constitution which was revoked saying that asylum seekers and refugees should go to the nearest safe country.

    I wouldn't give them any benefits til they've stayed here five years, nor would I let them have any priority on housing (you wouldn't jump in front of someone in the queue in the bank so it's the same principle)

    Admittedly some people are homeless through "choice" that is they have became used to the life, they may have alcohol and drug dependcies and mental health issues. Which the government should focus their efforts on instead of spending millions on people fresh into the country.

    The purpose of a government is to look after the needs of it's own people (not the needs of someone who has never lived here, their forefathers never fought to libreate the country in the war, and they've not paid a bean into the pot.

    This is what the working classes of the UK are angry about, and I have always maintained that the British working classes have been forgotten and there's nobody to fight their cause in government. (**** maybe I should become a politician?)

    I made a similar case on another forum and somebody said "build more houses". I'd just say turn the tap off instead of providing more and more buckets for the flood.

    Thoughts?


    There's actually sufficient help out there for homeless women, but if you're male and over 21 you're fooked basically if you ain't got family or a mate's couch you can stay on, there's next to no help available.

    Shelter might take you in one or two nights a week if quite lucky, but that's it basically, other than that you're homeless.........., they don't take men in fulltime
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    I'm sick of seeing people freezing to death (some of them literally) on the streets, in this day and age.

    Yet there's next to know awareness raised of it.

    Now. The homelessness epidemic (for that's what it is, certainly in the city where I live) needs to be addressed.

    Ok some things you need to know.

    The majority of the people you see on the streets either:

    1) DO have some kind of accommodation or

    2) Have refused accommodation because they WANT to be on the streets or

    3) Have gotten themselves thrown out of previously offered accommodation through being violent, drunk or failing to follow the rules.

    People are largely mislead about what they think is "homelessness" just as they are mislead about foodbanks.

    I work in one of the support centres in a large city. It provides a place for street drinkers, drug users and generally vulnerable people to hang out during the day. We give them breakfast and a lunch time meal.

    Make absolutely no mistake. Most of these people either have:

    1) A drinking problem
    2) A drug problem
    3) A mental health issue

    or all of the above.

    The vast majority have had sheltered accommodation in various forms. Many of them have been around most of the housing/shelters that are available. However many just can't behave or simply choose to be on the streets.

    Why?

    Because they want to spend the benefits they get on drink and/or drugs rather than use it to pay rents and buy normal food and groceries.

    Sitting on the streets begging IS their day job and they absolutely 100% want to do it. Some of them work in gangs and earn £100-£200 per day.

    The entire notion of there being a plethora of truly homeless people is false. The notion that you can simply give these people some form of accommodation and their lives will be fixed . . is massively wrong.

    The root problems are NOT being tackled.

    The root problems are not understood by most of the public.

    The root problems are alcoholism, drug addiction and mental health.

    If you are not addressing these issues then you are solving absolutely nothing.

    Case in point.

    A "guest" we had at the centre some months ago was helped a great deal. He was a chronic alcoholic and occasional drug user. We got him a nice bit of accommodation. Volunteers padded out his flat with sofa, bed, TV and other useful things. He was nicely set.

    A couple of months later the flat is absolutely trashed. His alcoholism means he always hangs with the same groups of nefarious individuals because when they mix with such people there is always free drink to be had.

    Those people were drug users too and they simply trashed his pad, threw paint everywhere and made it uninhabitable. The "guest" in question wasn't happy to be there, didn't feel safe and so went back on the streets or stayed at other people's houses.

    This is absolutely typical of the situation of 100s of people in cities across the country.

    There simply isn't mass homelessness. There really isn't. In my city there are estimated to be only about 30 genuinely homeless people and it's one of the largest cities in the country. What exists is an epidemic of drink and substance abuse which is fuelling and perpetuating an "underground" existence of people who take to the streets and live there in order to maximise their funding for their habits.

    Currently a drug called "Spice" is massively f***ing up many people's lives across the country. It makes some people catatonic, it makes others go psycho and very violent. It's cheaper than many other drugs but it's an awful drug that is ruining people, and killing others.

    As a country we have to tackle this drink and drug addiction epidemic and rid ourselves of it. It is the root cause of what most people mistakenly think of as "homelessness".

    This Christmas, the major support centre in this city will again be inundated and literally swamped with donations of black bin bags filled to the brim with scarves, gloves, jackets and jumpers from people who are utterly clueless about the situation.

    The "homeless" will routinely visit the centre over the Christmas period, grab as much gear as they are permitted to take and then promptly sell it for a few quid to someone. Their primary, life-steering motive is to acquire money for their next drug "hit".

    We have to shed this false notion that is spoon fed to us of poor vulnerable people shivering on the streets looking dishevelled. Yes they are in a bad place, but they are begging for a reason, for money for their habits.

    NEVER EVER give street beggars money no matter how guilty you feel, no matter how much sympathy you feel. If you do you are simply feeding the habit and making them more vulnerable. Many bad gang members watch beggars to see what money they are being given and will then beat them up for it.

    The government need to massively step up funding for people's rehab either privately or through the NHS. Currently it is an absolute joke. You can get 7 days rehab from the NHS which isn't enough to turn anyone's life around. These people are stuck. No way to get real rehab, so stuck in the rut with the "monkey on their back", living for money to feed the habit, choosing to be on the streets.

    That is the problem that must be addressed.

    Sorry for long post but this stuff is important.
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)

    Now. The homelessness epidemic (for that's what it is, certainly in the city where I live) needs to be addressed. And it seems synonomous with the spike in immigration in the last 5ish years (largely from the African countries). British people should be given priority to housing, no ifs or buts, over someone that has just came into the country.
    It doesn't sound as though you know how the housing list works. Even if you were given priority, you'd still be waiting list for a while because there isn't enough houses for everyone who wants one.
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    Ah theyoung white male. The Most persecuted species of them all.
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    (Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
    Ok some things you need to know.

    The majority of the people you see on the streets either:

    1) DO have some kind of accommodation or

    2) Have refused accommodation because they WANT to be on the streets or

    3) Have gotten themselves thrown out of previously offered accommodation through being violent, drunk or failing to follow the rules.

    People are largely mislead about what they think is "homelessness" just as they are mislead about foodbanks.

    I work in one of the support centres in a large city. It provides a place for street drinkers, drug users and generally vulnerable people to hang out during the day. We give them breakfast and a lunch time meal.

    Make absolutely no mistake. Most of these people either have:

    1) A drinking problem
    2) A drug problem
    3) A mental health issue

    or all of the above.

    The vast majority have had sheltered accommodation in various forms. Many of them have been around most of the housing/shelters that are available. However many just can't behave or simply choose to be on the streets.

    Why?

    Because they want to spend the benefits they get on drink and/or drugs rather than use it to pay rents and buy normal food and groceries.

    Sitting on the streets begging IS their day job and they absolutely 100% want to do it. Some of them work in gangs and earn £100-£200 per day.

    The entire notion of there being a plethora of truly homeless people is false. The notion that you can simply give these people some form of accommodation and their lives will be fixed . . is massively wrong.

    The root problems are NOT being tackled.

    The root problems are not understood by most of the public.

    The root problems are alcoholism, drug addiction and mental health.

    If you are not addressing these issues then you are solving absolutely nothing.

    Case in point.

    A "guest" we had at the centre some months ago was helped a great deal. He was a chronic alcoholic and occasional drug user. We got him a nice bit of accommodation. Volunteers padded out his flat with sofa, bed, TV and other useful things. He was nicely set.

    A couple of months later the flat is absolutely trashed. His alcoholism means he always hangs with the same groups of nefarious individuals because when they mix with such people there is always free drink to be had.

    Those people were drug users too and they simply trashed his pad, threw paint everywhere and made it uninhabitable. The "guest" in question wasn't happy to be there, didn't feel safe and so went back on the streets or stayed at other people's houses.

    This is absolutely typical of the situation of 100s of people in cities across the country.

    There simply isn't mass homelessness. There really isn't. In my city there are estimated to be only about 30 genuinely homeless people and it's one of the largest cities in the country. What exists is an epidemic of drink and substance abuse which is fuelling and perpetuating an "underground" existence of people who take to the streets and live there in order to maximise their funding for their habits.

    Currently a drug called "Spice" is massively f***ing up many people's lives across the country. It makes some people catatonic, it makes others go psycho and very violent. It's cheaper than many other drugs but it's an awful drug that is ruining people, and killing others.

    As a country we have to tackle this drink and drug addiction epidemic and rid ourselves of it. It is the root cause of what most people mistakenly think of as "homelessness".

    This Christmas, the major support centre in this city will again be inundated and literally swamped with donations of black bin bags filled to the brim with scarves, gloves, jackets and jumpers from people who are utterly clueless about the situation.

    The "homeless" will routinely visit the centre over the Christmas period, grab as much gear as they are permitted to take and then promptly sell it for a few quid to someone. Their primary, life-steering motive is to acquire money for their next drug "hit".

    We have to shed this false notion that is spoon fed to us of poor vulnerable people shivering on the streets looking dishevelled. Yes they are in a bad place, but they are begging for a reason, for money for their habits.

    NEVER EVER give street beggars money no matter how guilty you feel, no matter how much sympathy you feel. If you do you are simply feeding the habit and making them more vulnerable. Many bad gang members watch beggars to see what money they are being given and will then beat them up for it.

    The government need to massively step up funding for people's rehab either privately or through the NHS. Currently it is an absolute joke. You can get 7 days rehab from the NHS which isn't enough to turn anyone's life around. These people are stuck. No way to get real rehab, so stuck in the rut with the "monkey on their back", living for money to feed the habit, choosing to be on the streets.

    That is the problem that must be addressed.

    Sorry for long post but this stuff is important.
    You've basically hit the nail on the head here I think. Addiction and mental health aren't being treated properly, the government is cutting spending and reducing the support available for purely ideological reasons without any regard for the impact that has on society as a whole. The idea of blaming migration for this problem is absurd, we've had positive net migration going on for years, and homelessness was never as bad as it is now the Tories are in power.

    Sadly it's only going to get worse I reckon. I don't think there's anything that will convince the Tory government that drug addition is something we need to be spending more money on, not less. Because naturally the idea of spending more money is complete anathema to them, unless of course it's spending money on themselves via tax breaks and shady business deals.
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    (Original post by Tiger Rag)
    It doesn't sound as though you know how the housing list works. Even if you were given priority, you'd still be waiting list for a while because there isn't enough houses for everyone who wants one.
    I think, having gone through both the homelessness and social housing systems, you will will find I do - you've basically said what I'm saying where I've emboldened:

    Supply is not meeting demand, largely due to over-population in urban areas where there are consequently a high immigrant population.

    And kids having kids and their kids having kids and getting every benefit and housing option going.

    But that's not the issue in hand.
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    (Original post by Dez)
    You've basically hit the nail on the head here I think. Addiction and mental health aren't being treated properly, the government is cutting spending and reducing the support available for purely ideological reasons without any regard for the impact that has on society as a whole. The idea of blaming migration for this problem is absurd, we've had positive net migration going on for years, and homelessness was never as bad as it is now the Tories are in power.

    Sadly it's only going to get worse I reckon. I don't think there's anything that will convince the Tory government that drug addition is something we need to be spending more money on, not less. Because naturally the idea of spending more money is complete anathema to them, unless of course it's spending money on themselves via tax breaks and shady business deals.
    Well, cities have changed (my city at least), even the predominantly white British areas have seen a massive u turn in terms of ethnic demographic, simply because there's too many coming in, in too little a concentrated period, we're pandering too much to them, and once they're in they reproduce and have better citizens rights for their families to come over.

    mental health and substance abuse is part and parcel of LIVING ON THE STREETS not in spite of.

    And more money needs to be invested in these areas before we start giving out billions in foreign aid, letting anyone and everyone over on spurious terms, and letting them plunder the welfare and housing systems.

    The problem was caused before the Tories regained power, like I say 10-15 years ago there used to be many vacant properties, until the wave of new EU state migration, and immigration from the likes of the poorer Arab states and (the wealthier) African states.
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    Unscrupulous landlords also capitalising on the situation.
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    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    Well, cities have changed (my city at least), even the predominantly white British areas have seen a massive u turn in terms of ethnic demographic, simply because there's too many coming in, in too little a concentrated period, we're pandering too much to them, and once they're in they reproduce and have better citizens rights for their families to come over.
    This is irrelevant.

    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    mental health and substance abuse is part and parcel of LIVING ON THE STREETS not in spite of.
    Yes, and that is why we need to understand and try to solve the root problem.

    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    And more money needs to be invested in these areas before we start giving out billions in foreign aid, letting anyone and everyone over on spurious terms, and letting them plunder the welfare and housing systems.
    The UK foreign aid budget is minuscule so please don't waste my time bringing that into the debate. The idea of welfare being "plundered" is also completely stupid, even a modicum of research into the matter would show you how difficult it is to get into the benefits system if you are a recent arrival to the UK, and how little of our welfare budget as a whole is spent on migrants, the majority of whom are net contributors to the treasury (thanks mainly to the EU). In any case this is all, again, irrelevant to the matter of dealing with UK homeless.

    (Original post by Danny the Geezer)
    The problem was caused before the Tories regained power, like I say 10-15 years ago there used to be many vacant properties, until the wave of new EU state migration, and immigration from the likes of the poorer Arab states and (the wealthier) African states.
    Sorry but the numbers simply don't tally with your assertions here. Homelessness was falling quite rapidly up until 2010, and has been rising steadily ever since (see here for data). And as already pointed out, the number of property vacancies generally doesn't have much impact on the levels of homelessness. It's not a lack of accommodation that's the actual problem.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    Ah theyoung white male. The Most persecuted species of them all.
    If you look at cold hard comparisons then in the UK white-poor-young-males are actually one of the most disadvantaged of all groups.

    the white young male as a whole is fine - but we have a huge problem with poor white young males. Mainly because they are an under-funded minority group, purely because they are not recognized as a minority group that needs support. As a result the support and schemes available for white young poor men are a fraction of what they are for other groups in need.

    For example it is entirely preferable to be a poor young white female then a male, simply because at the extreme end of poverty in this country there are far far more provisions for girls then for boys. Equally it is if anything preferable to be a poor young non-white individual because whilst the poverty/culture may be the same, there are far far more schemes to help non-white individuals move up the social ladder then there are targeted at young white men. (even if there is not enough for either).
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    (Original post by fallen_acorns)
    If you look at cold hard comparisons then in the UK white-poor-young-males are actually one of the most disadvantaged of all groups.

    the white young male as a whole is fine - but we have a huge problem with poor white young males. Mainly because they are an under-funded minority group, purely because they are not recognized as a minority group that needs support. As a result the support and schemes available for white young poor men are a fraction of what they are for other groups in need.

    For example it is entirely preferable to be a poor young white female then a male, simply because at the extreme end of poverty in this country there are far far more provisions for girls then for boys. Equally it is if anything preferable to be a poor young non-white individual because whilst the poverty/culture may be the same, there are far far more schemes to help non-white individuals move up the social ladder then there are targeted at young white men. (even if there is not enough for either).
    So you are a leftie now?

    And I am not sure that is the case. If a sibling pair of poor white people is girl/boy, what advantages does the girl specifically have over her brother?
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    Sharia Law would solve it pretty quickly. The Sharia Patrols potentially could have done a lot of the work the police should be doing so that NHS and social services dont have to. It would also make student bar hopping sluts actually dip in to their pocket rather than walking over/around these people in their headlong quest for drunken c0ck.
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    (Original post by yudothis)
    So you are a leftie now?

    And I am not sure that is the case. If a sibling pair of poor white people is girl/boy, what advantages does the girl specifically have over her brother?
    Very little would separate them at first, except that its far more likely that the brother would drop out of school/university, and receive less qualifications, but even that is not a huge deal.

    The bigger problems come when either hits blocks in their life. For example homelessness as this thread is about. Its no secret that there is a huge huge disparity between the care and support avaliable for homeless men compared to homeless women. Equally if they both suffered sexual assult, the provision is much better for young women. If they get into trouble with the law (which is statistically far more likely being from a poor background) then the girl is likely to get much shorter and more lenient sentances.. etc.

    Thats the difference as I see it.

    ---

    To your other point, my political place would be best defined as conservative+Collectivist.
    If your interested:
    Spoiler:
    Show

    I Have very conservative values(that are certainly not popular), in the actual sense of conservative (not the party, who I strongly disagree with) - but I am a complete collectivist who believes entirely in the purpose of groups that work and pool together to help everyone. From the smallest family units, to towns, cities, and countries, I am strongly of the opinion that our best interests are served when we work together for the interests of the group.

    This leaves me in a bit of a problem with not having very many political friends in the UK! The conservative party share some of my traditional views, but they are so so fiercely individualistic and ruthlessly selfish to ever satisfy me.

    The left equally dislike my ideals... as whilst my views are very in tune with them on a UK level - (supporting those in need and nationalization to give two examples) - Where they disagree with me entirely is on immigration and multiculturalism. For me these are negatives that weaken the structure of the key groups that form our country, including our country itself. (Not to confuse weaker, with poorer, because they certainly make some of us richer)
 
 
 
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