am so thankful... Watch

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DazYa
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for living in the UK and where there is no torture

I just witnessed the most horrendous video showing some poor guys fingers get cut off and it really does reinforce the idea that these occurances happen on a much larger scale. The fact that these people actually film these videos and put them on the net!

will this ever stop?
gideon2000uk
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Our freedom is indeed a precious thing, and it did not come cheap.

A tremendous blood cost was incurred in many battles to defend our freedom, most notably against the Spanish Armada, Napolean and in the two World Wars.

Thw West must use all of the tools at it's disposal to continue to spread democracy and freedom around the word even though it sometimes requires the blood of brave men to water the tree of liberty (to paraprase Abraham Lincoln).
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by gideon2000uk)
A tremendous blood cost was incurred in many battles to defend our freedom, most notably against the Spanish Armada, Napolean and in the two World Wars.
Roman invasion and the civil war too.
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Sam2k
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(Original post by gideon2000uk)
Our freedom is indeed a precious thing, and it did not come cheap.

A tremendous blood cost was incurred in many battles to defend our freedom, most notably against the Spanish Armada, Napolean and in the two World Wars.

Thw West must use all of the tools at it's disposal to continue to spread democracy and freedom around the word even though it sometimes requires the blood of brave men to water the tree of liberty (to paraprase Abraham Lincoln).
Amen. The same thing can be said by Americans (except for the spanish armada and napoleon) I completely agree.
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starry
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Which country was this in? And I am glad to be British, proud as well.
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DazYa
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(Original post by starry)
Which country was this in? And I am glad to be British, proud as well.
Agreed. It said Iraq on the description....


gideon2000uk a beautiful point raised but how are we free?!!? It is only the minority that actually filmed this crap and put it up on the net, more of this must happen without it being filmed
Weejimmie
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(Original post by DazYaABBB)
for living in the UK and where there is no torture

I just witnessed the most horrendous video showing some poor guys fingers get cut off and it really does reinforce the idea that these occurances happen on a much larger scale. The fact that these people actually film these videos and put them on the net!

will this ever stop?
The UK police and armed forces have practised torture before and may still do so abroad. The way to prevent torture is not to be glad it doesn't happen, or doesn't happen as often as in some countries, or to assume it will never happen, but to be continually aware that there are people who will use torture if they can and refuse to accept confessions or evidence extracted under torture in any circumstances and to punish the perpetrators.
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gideon2000uk
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The UK police and armed forces have practised torture before and may still do so abroad. The way to prevent torture is not to be glad it doesn't happen, or doesn't happen as often as in some countries, or to assume it will never happen, but to be continually aware that there are people who will use torture if they can and refuse to accept confessions or evidence extracted under torture in any circumstances and to punish the perpetrators.
Recently the law reguarding 'evidence obtained through torture' was changed in the UK for good reason.

In the past a known terrorist could be released because the evidence (obtained through torture overseas) would not stand up in court.

I believe that it is right to put our security before the post-event moralism that dictates that by using this evidence we are condoning the practice, we are not!

The real moralising should be about how many bodies will be scraped of the streets of London if we allow terrorists to go free.
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Weejimmie
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(Original post by gideon2000uk)
Recently the law reguarding 'evidence obtained through torture' was changed in the UK for good reason.

In the past a known terrorist could be released because the evidence (obtained through torture overseas) would not stand up in court.
Apart from the vileness of using torture at all, evidence supplied by torture is unreliable. Gideon, my boy, if someone got to work on you with an electric cattle-prod you would very soon be "a known terrorist" and quite a few of your friends as well.

I believe that it is right to put our security before the post-event moralism that dictates that by using this evidence we are condoning the practice, we are not!
Ah. You aren't actually condoning torture. Damned unEnglish practise. But, if a few Dagos or wogs torture a few wogs or dagos and they say something, that is quite all right.

The real moralising should be about how many bodies will be scraped of the streets of London if we allow terrorists to go free.
Would the "streets of London" be worth defending then? While the "defenders" are beating up people implicated by torture to find imaginary weapons the real criminals won't be noticed.
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FallenSpirit
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I'm glad I live in this country too.
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Weejimmie
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(Original post by FallenSpirit)
I'm glad I live in this country too.
This country will only stay worth living in if we work to keep it so.
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NDGAARONDI
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(Original post by DazYaABBB)
Agreed. It said Iraq on the description....
It would wouldn't it? Given the political situation over there. Try Cambodia a few decades ago and parts of the 'black' regions of Africa where Bokassa (sp) used to rule. It's not just the Middle East you know.
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Trousers
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(Original post by DazYaABBB)
The fact that these people actually film these videos and put them on the net!
Quite right, but it's also depressing to think that there are so many people like you who watch them.
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MC
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I would just like to point out, that outside of the UK/USA and any other far west country, people DO lead normal, enjoyable lives, I know this for a fact because I have met many many people whilst traveling.

From what I can see, many people here think that all non-western countries are a terrible place to live in. Though this may apply to some, it must also be considered and acknowledges that even in war torn countries, people still do lead normal, healthy, enjoyable lives.
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DazYa
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(Original post by Trousers)
Quite right, but it's also depressing to think that there are so many people like you who watch them.
I just happened to watch out of curiousity. Lots of other people have done the same such as vienna95. You're side tracking from the focus point of this discussion. Do you not comprehend the English language??
DazYa
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(Original post by NDGAARONDI)
It would wouldn't it? .
But what's the point in lying about the description of the video? What will that do?
Trousers
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(Original post by DazYaABBB)
I just happened to watch out of curiousity. Lots of other people have done the same such as vienna95. You're side tracking from the focus point of this discussion. Do you not comprehend the English language??
No, it seems I don't. You explain, then - am I to understand that saying anything that doesn't directly reiterate the original post is considered "side tracking"?
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Minor_Deity
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Our freedom is indeed a precious thing, and it did not come cheap.

A tremendous blood cost was incurred in many battles to defend our freedom, most notably against the Spanish Armada, Napolean and in the two World Wars.
Surely our freedom came through sustained and peacefuldevelopments rather than blood shed? The Magna Carta was peaceful wasn't it (forced on King what's-name, but no one got killed so far as I know), and Acts of parliament throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. When we tried liberty through war (Cromwell) it failed didn't it?

But then again, what about the influence of world wars? Mauybe I'm defeating my own point here...
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DazYa
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(Original post by Trousers)
No, it seems I don't. You explain, then - am I to understand that saying anything that doesn't directly reiterate the original post is considered "side tracking"?
Just keep on topic and think before you type! It isn't hard!!!
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