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    Would you be better off with more state control or less state control?
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    It depends what you mean when you say control. If you mean security, then probably not. We would not be better off. However, if by control you mean services then we would be much worse off. There is no way the average person in this country could pay for the levels of healthcare, road use, education and everything else the state provides if they paid no tax and had to pay for everything up front.

    My mate lives in the US. He earns over $100k a year but after is health insurance premiums, he is no better off than he was in the UK earning a modest £40k.
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    That depends, do your friends steal your money, spend some of it on things they think you'd like and then expect you to feel grateful?
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    That depends, do your friends steal your money, spend some of it on things they think you'd like and then expect you to feel grateful?
    As much as I obviously have no love for the state, this kind of analogy is dumb. Your friends don't produce the physical money supply, or legally define and guarantee the value of currency.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    As much as I obviously have no love for the state, this kind of analogy is dumb. Your friends don't produce the physical money supply, or legally define and guarantee the value of currency.
    Your friends don't loan you money out of thin air and then expect you to pay it back in real money.
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    (Original post by akka444)
    Your friends don't loan you money out of thin air
    Money has to come from thin air at some point. Though I agree that fractional reserve based money systems are terrible.
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    state should do more in terms of public services education and health but less in terms of police kettling you and your friends for 4 hours because your protesting against austerity.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    As much as I obviously have no love for the state, this kind of analogy is dumb. Your friends don't produce the physical money supply, or legally define and guarantee the value of currency.
    I disagree, I think it sums up one of the most important elements of the state-citizen relationship.

    Is it a complete description? Obviously not. But I don't think it's completely without merit.
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    (Original post by hannah00)
    state should do more in terms of public services education and health but less in terms of police kettling you and your friends for 4 hours because your protesting against austerity.
    Compulsory education is one of the main causes of psychological suffering.
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    (Original post by Rinsed)
    I disagree, I think it sums up one of the most important elements of the state-citizen relationship.

    Is it a complete description? Obviously not. But I don't think it's completely without merit.
    The problem is it's trying to detach the state from something it's inextricably involved in.

    Yes, one of the state's defining powers is its control over money (apart from moneyless state societies like the Incas), but trying to analogise this to a monetary interaction with a friend doesn't really make sense because in that scenario, the money still has all the relations with the state from the former.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    The problem is it's trying to detach the state from something it's inextricably involved in.

    Yes, one of the state's defining powers is its control over money (apart from moneyless state societies like the Incas), but trying to analogise this to a monetary interaction with a friend doesn't really make sense because in that scenario, the money still has all the relations with the state from the former.
    I think we need to distinguish between 'money' and 'wealth'. I was obviously using money as a shorthand for the latter, as you do in everyday life. You're talking about the theoretical concept of money which, whilst not unimportant at all, is rather different. As you say, the government guarantees the link between the two, so my linking money and wealth only works in a stable system, but even so, I think seguing into M2 and what have you is a leap.

    This said, I don't really approve of governments being active in monetary policy either. Free banking ftw!

    In reference to your reply to the other poster though, I don't really see what's so terrible about fractional reserve banking. You don't like that banks can create credit?
 
 
 
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