What is your opinion on MB/PhD programs at uni if doing it?

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carraiga
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From my work experience and much other stuff I know I want to practice medicine; however I also love theory and I would love to research certain areas if possible (lately I've been obsessed with neuron regeneration, stem cells (obviously),and personalized medicine)

I know most MD/MBs can do basic research, but from what it seems I'd be better off to do research with a PhD; plus I'm sure the skills gained would be invaluable in the lab

Thing is I'm in doing A levels and am not even an undergrad yet
and it might be a bit early to think of such programs- is it?


saying that, it does not mean I want to do a MB/PhD only for research purposes, but I would like to have the flexibility of both (I'm like 60 to 70% for the clinical aspect and 40-50% the lab part)


advice,opinions?
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carraiga
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(Original post by ecolier)
What a shame if only they let you start your course at 14yo....

Ok, if you are serious about this - MBChB / MBBS courses are very clinically orientated. You can by all means intercalate but you can a BSc at the end of this extra year (or not as the case in Nottingham!). You are of course welcome to go on to do Masters and PhD after your MBChB / MBBS.
I'm actually 17 in a month and half

And yes I would rather intercalate;2 non emotional and logical reasons:
1) from my understanding It saves time as I'd be working towards PhD and MD simultaneously, rather than first MD/MB and then PhD
2) Adding to above: that would mean I would be fairly used to both lab and clinical - which would be better than doing zero clinical practice while working towards PhD or inverse


also you're not the only one that can stalk; what specifically are you studying/interested in neuroscience ?
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Cheesychips1
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I think it probably is a bit early to think...
What do you mean by MB/MDs? Anyone can do research, not just PhD students.

I'd recommend getting into medical school first, and arranging research projects early on - i.e. the first summer or within 1st year, to get a taste. Most Unis have research societies that can help you do this, or it will be a compulsory part of the course. This will give you an idea of the realities research, and give you a chance to make contacts.

If you still decided to become an academic doctor, some students who show excellent academic prowess can do a PhD during their medical degree, I know one girl who did. So instead of doing a normal intercalated degree, you take 3 years out to study for a PhD and then finish medicine off.
I'm not quite sure what you mean about doing an MB/PhD - you can't study for a medical degree and PhD at the same time, except in very exceptional circumstances as mentioned above.

The easier route would be to go to med school, do loads of projects, intercalate, do the academic foundation programme and go from there. If you do a PhD during your clinical training you get a nice bump to your wage.

Hope this helps.
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kaytoner
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(Original post by Cheesychips44)
I think it probably is a bit early to think...
What do you mean by MB/MDs?.
sorry in the US MBs are called MDs

but thanks for advice
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kaytoner
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(Original post by ecolier)
I am specialising in neurology in medicine, which is why I would like to help those who are interested in neuroscience!
cool you interested in just practicing it or doing some of your own research in it if possible?
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Cheesychips1
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(Original post by kaytoner)
sorry in the US MBs are called MDs

but thanks for advice
Oh I see!

Well if you want to maintain some clinical practise whilst doing research, I'd again recommend a PhD whilst you're working as a Doctor. You can often retain some clinical duties to keep your hand in xxx
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kaytoner
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(Original post by Cheesychips44)
Oh I see!

Well if you want to maintain some clinical practise whilst doing research, I'd again recommend a PhD whilst you're working as a Doctor. You can often retain some clinical duties to keep your hand in xxx

thanks for advice

also you a med student?
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Chief Wiggum
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Yeah, your use of MD/MB might perhaps be a bit confusing for people reading the thread. MD is a higher research degree in the UK, so I was confused by your statement about studying for an MD and PhD at the same time.

Anyway, you essentially have two options:

1. Do an MBPhD programme, as you describe. Admission to this will be competitive, and will depend on performance on the course prior to the selection for the MBPhD programme. I'm not sure how common these are - Cambridge and UCL have them. Does anywhere else? You mention "working towards MB and PhD simultaneously". Not sure about elsewhere, but in Cambridge, you do years 1-4 of the medical course, then take 3 years for PhD, then do years 5-6 of the medical course.

2. Do a PhD once you're already a clinically-qualified doctor. Some people do advise this, since you are most likely to know what you want to specialise in and it can be more relevant to your chosen career. I don't really know enough to offer advice on which option, 1 or 2, is "better". I suspect they each have their pros and cons.
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kaytoner
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(Original post by ecolier)
Oh I do as part of working clinically - publishing interesting cases, new treatment protocol, audits etc. I do ask medical students / junior docs to help if possible (I do most of the work they can help ) so they can put their name on something for their CV
To clarify, you're a registrar ?

also can you link me one of these published paper, I'd very much be interested in reading your work as I have a deep interest in neuroscience as well


Also a bit off topic but I have a question : I assume you're familiar with synapses- Electrical synapses are bidirectional right? I asked my teacher but she just ignored me saying we don't need to know that
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kaytoner
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(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
Yeah, your use of MD/MB might perhaps be a bit confusing for people reading the thread. MD is a higher research degree in the UK, so I was confused by your statement about studying for an MD and PhD at the same time.

Anyway, you essentially have two options:

1. Do an MBPhD programme, as you describe. Admission to this will be competitive, and will depend on performance on the course prior to the selection for the MBPhD programme. I'm not sure how common these are - Cambridge and UCL have them. Does anywhere else? You mention "working towards MB and PhD simultaneously". Not sure about elsewhere, but in Cambridge, you do years 1-4 of the medical course, then take 3 years for PhD, then do years 5-6 of the medical course.

2. Do a PhD once you're already a clinically-qualified doctor. Some people do advise this, since you are most likely to know what you want to specialise in and it can be more relevant to your chosen career. I don't really know enough to offer advice on which option, 1 or 2, is "better". I suspect they each have their pros and cons.

Thanks man, really helpful advice

Yes sorry I maybe 'simultaneous' probably wasn't the best term to use
And yes I'm applying to Cambridge - as far as I'm aware they're a pioneer in this and thus I concluded it might be better for me to apply there (and I have)
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kaytoner
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(Original post by ecolier)
Yes I am a neurology registrar. I will hold off linking as that will reveal my true identity! Have a look at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK11164/ on synapses (and yes it can be bidirectional under certain circumstances). This book has helped me loads
Well you've just about convinced me you really are who you say you are- I apologize for the previous hostility
Just didn't think a registrar would be on TSR and especially not with a snoopy profile pic- The registrars I know are boring middle aged men

and thanks for the link but I've already read that
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kaytoner
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(Original post by ecolier)
Lol that's not snoopy! And I am a boring (slightly younger than) middle aged man. PS You do know that (if you enter med school at 18) the youngest you can be a consultant is 32 years old, right? Hardly middle aged and already a consultant!
I know but not everyone achieves those goals in time
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Helenia
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(Original post by kaytoner)
Well you've just about convinced me you really are who you say you are- I apologize for the previous hostility
Just didn't think a registrar would be on TSR and especially not with a snoopy profile pic- The registrars I know are boring middle aged men

and thanks for the link but I've already read that
Women are allowed to be doctors (and registrars and even consultants) too you know
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kaytoner
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(Original post by Helenia)
Women are allowed to be doctors (and registrars and even consultants) too you know
I never brought gender into this
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y.u.mad.bro?
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(Original post by ecolier)
I am specialising in neurology in medicine, which is why I would like to help those who are interested in neuroscience!
Hey, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I plan to study medicine and then work either towards being a cardiothoracic surgeon or a neurosurgeon. Are there any books you would suggest I should read or any articles (JStore preferably) which I can talk about in my interview and that would give me insight into the field.
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Helenia
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(Original post by kaytoner)
I never brought gender into this
Just pointing out that not all registrars are the boring middle-aged men that you know...
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Chief Wiggum
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(Original post by y.u.mad.bro?)
Hey, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I plan to study medicine and then work either towards being a cardiothoracic surgeon or a neurosurgeon. Are there any books you would suggest I should read or any articles (JStore preferably) which I can talk about in my interview and that would give me insight into the field.
Might sound a bit naive to say in your interview that you definitely want to be a neurosurgeon or cardiothoracic surgeon.

But for your own interest:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-No-Harm-.../dp/0297869876

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Admissions-...BZAJYGBK8HJDPD

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fragile-Liv.../dp/0008196761

I haven't read any of them, but they appear to be well-received.
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y.u.mad.bro?
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(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
Might sound a bit naive to say in your interview that you definitely want to be a neurosurgeon or cardiothoracic surgeon.

But for your own interest:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Do-No-Harm-.../dp/0297869876

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Admissions-...BZAJYGBK8HJDPD

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fragile-Liv.../dp/0008196761

I haven't read any of them, but they appear to be well-received.
won't really mention it but I hear it is beneficial if you have read stuff before linking to medicine thats why.
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ecolier
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(Original post by y.u.mad.bro?)
won't really mention it but I hear it is beneficial if you have read stuff before linking to medicine thats why.
It's good to have something to aim for. Good books suggested above but for our specialty I would recommend "Phantoms in the Brain" and "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat". Both inspired me to do neurology.

If you can backup your choice of career with insight - i.e. know a bit about the Glasgow Coma Scale (for neurosurgery), range of operation etc. etc. then I suppose it could work. Otherwise it will just be "I want to be a CT surgeon" "Ok, what does it involve?" "erm...." (won't go down well)
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y.u.mad.bro?
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(Original post by ecolier)
It's good to have something to aim for. Good books suggested above but for our specialty I would recommend "Phantoms in the Brain" and "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat". Both inspired me to do neurology.

If you can backup your choice of career with insight - i.e. know a bit about the Glasgow Coma Scale (for neurosurgery), range of operation etc. etc. then I suppose it could work. Otherwise it will just be "I want to be a CT surgeon" "Ok, what does it involve?" "erm...." (won't go down well)
True. Will have a look at them. thanks
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