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Parliament to get binding vote on final Brexit deal Watch

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    (Original post by paul514)
    I’m not getting into the referendum it’s done a side won, the other didn’t.
    I do not contest that.
    But when one side wins an election, it doesn't mean that the other parties shut up shop, say goodbye to their principles and resign themselves to a one-party state.

    No, they continue campaigning and continue to use the Parliamentary process (remember, the thing you wanted back) to attempt to block, amend and change policies and legislation.
    I expect pro-EU MPs and organisations to continue this process, and to attempt to reverse the process if Brexit actually happens.

    That's the democratic process. Not this Brexiteers' idea that once a vote has been taken, that decision is inviolate for all eternity and cannot be questioned or opposed.
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    (Original post by The Financier)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41975277



    Even if there were indications of this coming, it marks a more clear idea of the wider parliament's involvement in the outcome of the Brexit negotiations.

    Thoughts? Do you think this is an attempt to appease some of the MPs that were rumoured to be threatening a rebellion over the weekend, or was this the plan all along?
    Definitely wasn't part of the plan because if there whole brexit process has demonstrated anything, there is absolutely no plan.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Great, so you also know it’s not going to happen.
    Yes.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I do not contest that.
    But when one side wins an election, it doesn't mean that the other parties shut up shop, say goodbye to their principles and resign themselves to a one-party state.

    No, they continue campaigning and continue to use the Parliamentary process (remember, the thing you wanted back) to attempt to block, amend and change policies and legislation.
    I expect pro-EU MPs and organisations to continue this process, and to attempt to reverse the process if Brexit actually happens.

    That's the democratic process. Not this Brexiteers' idea that once a vote has been taken, that decision is inviolate for all eternity and cannot be questioned or opposed.
    You see this is where you are wrong, when a political party wins an election it becomes the government. The objective of the vote is complete and the government goes about its business. In this case the vote isn’t complete until you have left.

    Also this isn’t about democratic process, politics usually is but when it comes to referendums it’s an arbitrary position as the ultimate democratic process is the vote of the public, again this usually isn’t the case as they usually vote for a whole series of policies and not a single issue.

    It’s not shutting up shop either once it’s done remain campaigners can simply campaign to re-join.
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    The choice is between a bad deal or no deal, something the government promised after Miller took them to court.

    I'm less bothered about Brexit being stopped post deal (parliament can't order the government to do anything in negotiations) and more bothered about whether Labour actually have the balls to stop the EU bill this week. I suspect they'll just abstain.
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    (Original post by paul514)

    It’s not shutting up shop either once it’s done remain campaigners can simply campaign to re-join.
    Yeah like that'll work ?
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Yeah like that'll work ?
    Of course it won’t work but that’s besides the point
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Of course it won’t work but that’s besides the point
    Its entirely the point.
    This load of tosh being spread as fact by Brexiteering tub thumpers is utterly ridiculous. Britiain cannot simply rejoin with a click of its fingers, it's a ludicrous assertion to make. Especially after the brain dead chimps in Westminster have branded the Europeans our enemies and likened them to Hitler.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Its entirely the point.
    This load of tosh being spread as fact by Brexiteering tub thumpers is utterly ridiculous. Britiain cannot simply rejoin with a click of its fingers, it's a ludicrous assertion to make. Especially after the brain dead chimps in Westminster have branded the Europeans our enemies and likened them to Hitler.
    No one said we could just rejoin with a click of our fingers but campaigning to re-join is the logical step for ardent remainders if they want to accept a democratic vote that has already had an outcome.

    We should have everyone working together for the best outcome the electorate have voted for rather than tricks, blocking and stitch ups.
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    Interesting article in the Torygraph nicely pointing out that even if parliament could order the government to continue negotiations, they could not force Europe to negotiate.

    Additionally by putting the date in legislation we override the Lisbon Treaty point allowing an extension of negotiations. Hence if the government was told to go back, they could happily run down the clock.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    No one said we could just rejoin with a click of our fingers but campaigning to re-join is the logical step for ardent remainders if they want to accept a democratic vote that has already had an outcome.

    We should have everyone working together for the best outcome the electorate have voted for rather than tricks, blocking and stitch ups.
    Interesting position, so why do brexiteers have such an objection to another democratic vote that if anything should just reinforce the democracy arguement?

    I see no reason to assist Brexiteers in their quest to roger the UK, her economy and her international friends in the name of plebeian nationalism..? If anything we should be doing out uptmost to ensure that this discredited government cannot run roughshod over our rights.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    Interesting position, so why do brexiteers have such an objection to another democratic vote that if anything should just reinforce the democracy arguement?.
    Because just like the remain vote brexit voters are a coalition of people who want something from remaining.

    I’ll guarantee you that if a second referendum was held that remain would win, not because their argument has been proven but because a section of brexit voters aren’t getting what they want from the deal.

    However if we left and remain campaigned to rejoin and we had another referendum I will guarantee you we wouldn’t vote to rejoin as the same would apply to that vote as the second referendum.

    This is why this is the crux of the issue for leavers on top of nananana we already won why should we give up our winning position.
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    (Original post by paul514)
    Because just like the remain vote brexit voters are a coalition of people who want something from remaining.

    I’ll guarantee you that if a second referendum was held that remain would win, not because their argument has been proven but because a section of brexit voters aren’t getting what they want from the deal.

    However if we left and remain campaigned to rejoin and we had another referendum I will guarantee you we wouldn’t vote to rejoin as the same would apply to that vote as the second referendum.

    This is why this is the crux of the issue for leavers on top of nananana we already won why should we give up our winning position.
    In fairness out of the two arguements Remain has been proved right the most... prices are all rising, productivity is falling and the economy is anemic - and we havent even left yet. Whilst the leave voters have been proven decisively wrong on most fronts or atleast not right, if not wrong.

    Mainly because absolutely all the evidence says that Brexit is steering the country into a black hole, we're going to be ****ed in the arse by Europe and the rest of the world is hardly beating down our door for business.
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    (Original post by Napp)
    In fairness out of the two arguements Remain has been proved right the most... prices are all rising, productivity is falling and the economy is anemic - and we havent even left yet. Whilst the leave voters have been proven decisively wrong on most fronts or atleast not right, if not wrong.

    Mainly because absolutely all the evidence says that Brexit is steering the country into a black hole, we're going to be ****ed in the arse by Europe and the rest of the world is hardly beating down our door for business.
    Look I could reply here x y and z fact then debate the same points which have been debated to death already....

    The point of my last post still remains the crux of the issue we face today.
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