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Mass immigration has completely changed parts of the UK Watch

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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    First of all I think most immigrants are willing to integrate into our society. Secondly, it is sickening that you don't condemn the slaughtering/subjugation of the natives. Who is to say one culture is superior to another?, unless of course there are some hateful/violent things. I personally think aboriginal culture was beautiful, even more sophisticated than western culture at the time, and so many thousands of years ago. Finally we are all one human race, and your attitude is divisive. Do you not know that Western culture has evolved from a variety of cultures, and much our culture does originate in the Islamic world, e.g photography, algebra, our numerical system, medicine and hygiene etc.
    You never asked me to condemn the slaughter of the natives but, yes, I do condemn it. But it's obvious that western culture is superior to any other culture except perhaps East Asian cultures. Our rule of law, equality, gender rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, LGBT rights, technological and scientific advancements are second to none, certainly can't be compared to the cultures of South Asia and much of the Middle East.
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    Hopefully but here are signs that perhaps some of the newer generation is also not integrating. For example, the government's anti-radicalisation scheme had to help 2000 children who were radicalised, mainly Islamically although some were far right. I don't know what will happen but right now there aren't parts of this country which are almost like a foreign country.
    Dont they end up being ghettoised because its all in poor areas where no one else wants to live and white people move away to the suburbs and the country?

    East London has always been a melting pot and gateway for immigration.

    Previously it was Africans, Indians and Pakistanis, Jews and the Irish or Eastern Europeans or do they not count because you like a curry and some of them are white, so less noticeable?
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    Thirty to forty years ago, not too long ago in the grand scheme of things, places like Ilford in East London, where my grandparents grew up, and places like Luton were predominantly indigenous white British. Now these areas are completely different. The culture of these areas has completely changed. The pubs have closed down, the community centres closed down, mosques and temples built, traditional English shops replaced with halal meat and Polski skleps, its all completely changed. Imagine being someone who grew up in these communities who no longer fits in in their own community because mass immigration from unfamiliar cultures and a lack of integration mean that you're the foreigner in your local neighbourhood. You're the odd one out. I recently had a conversation about this with my grandparents and it's sad what has happened to some of our communities. A lack of integration int traditional western culture, British culture and traditions have led to parts of Britain no longer being recognisable as British

    The problem is that some on the left won't even recognise that this is a problem, instead calling the locals of these areas racist for being concerned about the overhaul of their neighbourhoods. It just makes me feel extremely sad, parts of Britain have been lost.
    Well you should have told your ancestors not to leave Britain to colonise and rule different parts of the world and then expect the countries colonised not to bombard Britain!
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    You never asked me to condemn the slaughter of the natives but, yes, I do condemn it. But it's obvious that western culture is superior to any other culture except perhaps East Asian cultures. Our rule of law, equality, gender rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, LGBT rights, technological and scientific advancements are second to none, certainly can't be compared to the cultures of South Asia and much of the Middle East.
    Ahem... if you studied Medieval history, then you would know that Islamic culture was far more advanced than European cultures at the time. They were also more tolerant of other faiths, e.g Jewish people, who the Muslims fought in defence of during the crusades, and the Christians killed and exploited the Jews. Eventually, culture from all over the world has fused into other cultures. Superiority of a culture is subjective to each person, so no, western culture is not obviously superior to all other cultures, it's only a personal opinion not a fact. I could think that the colour blue is the best colour, but that is only my opinion, it's not a fact.
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    (Original post by 999tigger)
    Dont they end up being ghettoised because its all in poor areas where no one else wants to live and white people move away to the suburbs and the country?

    East London has always been a melting pot and gateway for immigration.

    Previously it was Africans, Indians and Pakistanis, Jews and the Irish or Eastern Europeans or do they not count because you like a curry and some of them are white, so less noticeable?
    Yes it has been a gateway for immigration but previously immigrants and people of Asian heritage made up about 5% of places like ilford, these days it's so much higher. It's clear that the east end has completely changed, the culture has completely changed from the traditional pubs, fish and chips, community centres, theatres to halal meat shops, Polish shops and mosques and temples. All of a sudden, the locals are the foreigners in their town. It's a serious concern hat many people across the country share. It's not something to dismiss or laugh about, that's what causes things like Brexit and trump, it's anger from ordinary good people who have been left out because of issues like immigration which they had to accept, no questions asked.
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    Hopefully but here are signs that perhaps some of the newer generation is also not integrating. For example, the government's anti-radicalisation scheme had to help 2000 children who were radicalised, mainly Islamically although some were far right. I don't know what will happen but right now there aren't parts of this country which are almost like a foreign country.
    I was kind of joking but you saying "hopefully" is a little sickening tbh. also on your other post when you mention that britain was more developed and superior "at the time" to islamic or south asian cultures which were "savage" and "tribal" is a bit stupid considering britain was not perfect at all with your child labour and burning witches.

    as another user mentioned half of what you have today was not invented by the british. A lot of medicine originated from outside of britain while you were still drilling holes into peoples skulls lmfao. hell, even human rights come from the middle east.

    but anyway. its all great to want integration but perhaps people should encourage it aswell so that you wouldnt have concentrated communities of ethnic minorities. and your younger gen kids you complain about probably feel isolated because of their race/culture is different to the main population (white) of britain, and its constantly pointed out and not accepted.
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    (Original post by maggie43)
    Well you should have told your ancestors not to leave Britain to colonise and rule different parts of the world and then expect the countries colonised not to bombard Britain!
    I'm not responsible for what my ancestors have done and there is no punishment for this country's past actions that we should take in millions of commonwealth immigrants to make up for it. The government should have prevented them from coming into this country if they were unskilled or if they didn't know English or other things that would suggest that they would be harder to integrate. We have absolutely no duty to let in anyone who wants to come here, regardless of what Britain did in the past when the world was a completely different place.
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    Thirty to forty years ago, not too long ago in the grand scheme of things, places like Ilford in East London, where my grandparents grew up, and places like Luton were predominantly indigenous white British. Now these areas are completely different. The culture of these areas has completely changed. The pubs have closed down, the community centres closed down, mosques and temples built, traditional English shops replaced with halal meat and Polski skleps, its all completely changed. Imagine being someone who grew up in these communities who no longer fits in in their own community because mass immigration from unfamiliar cultures and a lack of integration mean that you're the foreigner in your local neighbourhood. You're the odd one out. I recently had a conversation about this with my grandparents and it's sad what has happened to some of our communities. A lack of integration int traditional western culture, British culture and traditions have led to parts of Britain no longer being recognisable as British

    The problem is that some on the left won't even recognise that this is a problem, instead calling the locals of these areas racist for being concerned about the overhaul of their neighbourhoods. It just makes me feel extremely sad, parts of Britain have been lost.
    what you listed in your post aren't the problems. Building religious centers apart from churches isn't the problem, neither is a store which sells slightly different foods.

    The problem lies when large minority/ immigrant communities don't communicate or interact with the rest of Britain.
    What I mean is, for example: if you barely know any English, then you obviously cannot engage in British society.
    or, lets say the head of the house who is ethnically from Indian sub-continent forbids his children from interacting with the 'other' kids from school. That results is a lack of communication or interaction with the rest of the UK.
    Another problem could be that an area becomes so full with one particular community that they no longer have the need to interact with the rest of British society, therefore they become isolated and distant and their areas have little 'british feel' to them.

    THESE^^^^^ ARE THE REAL PROBLEMS..... not the food ethnic minorities eat or what religion they follow!

    Secondly, what were your grandparents expecting? even in the 1950's Britain was going through a BIG change, the government opened the doors to skilled migrants from Asia to rebuild a destroyed and emaciated UK after the world wars.

    however, inevitably their uses came to an end but they couldn't be sent back. They were legal hard working, naturalized britons.
    Then the manufacturing industry grew considerably and more skilled migrants were needed. The same happened, Margaret thatcher's craze for privatization destroyed the industry and instead built up the services sector, which yet again needed more skilled migrants. On-top of that, in 2003 eastern European countries joined the EU and there was a massive influx of polish/ Latvians/ Lithuanians etc moving to the UK.

    so yes, migrants have caused a lot of problems. But they also have brought massive benefits to the UK. Imagine, without migrants, the state of Britain, no NHS, collapsed construction, engineering, 21st century manufacturing, chemical industries etc.

    these problems are unique, yet solvable, just don't loose hope. Change will always happen, whether you want it or not. And in the long run, the change in society is always good even it has negative implications to begin with.
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    england has a fairly young educated populice, theres extreme wage disparity as in all developed nations, but it likely will survive. i would see Brexit as more of an issue then immigration.
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    Yes it has been a gateway for immigration but previously immigrants and people of Asian heritage made up about 5% of places like ilford, these days it's so much higher. It's clear that the east end has completely changed, the culture has completely changed from the traditional pubs, fish and chips, community centres, theatres to halal meat shops, Polish shops and mosques and temples. All of a sudden, the locals are the foreigners in their town. It's a serious concern hat many people across the country share. It's not something to dismiss or laugh about, that's what causes things like Brexit and trump, it's anger from ordinary good people who have been left out because of issues like immigration which they had to accept, no questions asked.
    Oh do get over yourself.

    Pubs have closed because of immigrants and not because people drink less and tend to buy from supermarkets so they drink at home?

    Fish and chip shops are fewer because people eat differently?? What takeaways do you have only fish and chips or heaven forbid do you buy some of that foreign rubbish like Chinese, Pizza or Curry?

    Community centres have fallen down because of lack of funding.

    Theatres have become halal meat shops? really? perhaps theatres and music halls have ceased because people use other forms of entertainment like netflix and the cinema? Are you a regular theatregoer?

    You dislike Polish shops because they are foreign? Do you only eat and buy things made in Britain?


    You just sound dim tbh wanting to scapegoat and blame other people because they arent the right colour and dont eat the same food as you

    Perhaps if you supported the shops you moan about closing down then there would be more of them..
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    The problem is that some on the left won't even recognise that this is a problem, instead calling the locals of these areas racist for being concerned about the overhaul of their neighbourhoods. It just makes me feel extremely sad, parts of Britain have been lost.
    Incorrect. The left argues it's not a problem in the first place. You assume that less pubs for brits to get drunk in is somehow bad. Or that less of "british culture" is bad. Well sorry, but that's not a fact.
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    It's a bit hypocritical complaining considering English people colonised places like America and Australia, where you can barely see natives or their beautiful culture anymore. And if you're going to compare the scale of those colonisations to immigration to the UK, you are an idiot.
    Comparing the immigration in 21st and 20th centuries from third world countries to first world countries with the most powerful empire in the world colonizing countries hundreds of years ago is completely moronic and pointless.
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    It's not the fact that they're foreigners that makes them a threat to the dominant culture. What causes them to be so is:
    1. The fact that they hold their own culture in a higher regard to their own. I don't think white people living in Japan are asking the Japanese government to conform to their needs; rather, they accept that by living there, they must give up many of the luxuries and norms of their own culture and integrate into their society as a productive member. For example, there is a huge language barrier in Canada, and 22% of people are considered completely illiterate in English... of those, 86% are due to immigration. How does one expect them to learn about Western society and values without communicating with English-speaking people?
    2. The regressive left-wingers who don't take an issue with this, and tell immigrants to embrace their own culture. This does not result in a "melting pot" or "cultural mosaic" as Western leftists like to pretend it creates. It instead creates several pockets of monocultures that refuse to integrate into the majority culture, and eventually take over areas. This is a threat to the dominant culture's values, norms, and history.
    3. Dismissal of any counter-arguments as racist. Politicians must come to accept that the reason everyone wants to move to Western countries is that we are the best, most advanced countries in the world. We are the best. However, in order to preserve this status and lead the world, we must not allow our values and success to be undermined by immigrants refusing to integrate.

    (For anyone interested, I'm a centrist libertarian living in Canada, so I may be in the dark about certain issues affecting the UK... I browse these forums for fun )
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    I'm not responsible for what my ancestors have done and there is no punishment for this country's past actions that we should take in millions of commonwealth immigrants to make up for it. The government should have prevented them from coming into this country if they were unskilled or if they didn't know English or other things that would suggest that they would be harder to integrate. We have absolutely no duty to let in anyone who wants to come here, regardless of what Britain did in the past when the world was a completely different place.
    The past makes the future. Get over yourself
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    (Original post by MartinF98)
    Hopefully but here are signs that perhaps some of the newer generation is also not integrating. For example, the government's anti-radicalisation scheme had to help 2000 children who were radicalised, mainly Islamically although some were far right. I don't know what will happen but right now there aren't parts of this country which are almost like a foreign country.

    The problem is not with the principle of immigration, its with mass immigration of many uneducated people from an unfamiliar culture in a short period of time which has changed towns and neighbourhoods completely, leaving the original residents feeling like foreigners in their own area. This has led to the phenomenon of 'white flight' which further worsens the problem. It's frustrating that people dismiss these concerns as racism when it's deeply saddening and these are genuine concerns from good people
    You are totally correct with your comments . I grew up in a 100% white working class area in the 60s . It was a very close knit community where everyone knew everyone else . Within a decade Asians and other cultures started arriving and all of a sudden racial crime became a problem . Within 20 years the area became the second worst area in the country for 'grooming' .

    It was about this time that the indigenous families started to move out of the area to the point where none of my friends and family live there anymore . They experienced the cultural enrichment first hand on their own doorstop and overwhelmingly voted with their feet .

    Very few still remain . There are now areas where white Europeans are not welcome . As a result the problem is one that we have never had before . It's one that after 40 odd years is just getting worse if the crime stats are anything to go by .

    What we see on our TV crime programs is a valuable snapshot of how dangerous and divided certain areas of the country have become . Integration is a word that only serves as a plaster over a gaping wound .
    A wound that will not heal anytime soon .
    As for my life experiences since leaving the area I grew up in , well all I can say is that it's the best thing I have ever done . We rarely see foreign faces and cultures and race and racism is never mentioned or reported about locally . Infact up until last year I think there was only 1 black officer in the entire constabulary .

    It's a shame that we haven't been allowed to value and appreciate our proud heritage more without this 'racist ' word been mentioned at every juncture . Sad ...very sad .
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    Yes and you're all very proud of destroying Europe's population

    I think heads should be rolling for this treason

    We must kill those who deny our EXISTANCE


    The only European countries not effected are those who resist like Poland

    Good luck taking all the nationalists on there..
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    But Britain is a multicultural country? Having areas of other culture gives us a melting pot of culture? People who come to the UK do not and should not be expected to give up their culture and beliefs. If you want exclusive white British culture move to somewhere that's a white area. People have the right to express their culture when they move here. Integration does not mean disowning beliefs and culture. The problem isn't that people are coming over and sharing their culture with us, it's that people like yourself cannot accept that other people have the right to express their culture. Communities becoming multicultural isn't sad, what is sad is people like yourself talking about it as though it's a bad thing. And no people on the left won't recognise it as a problem because it isn't a problem, people like yourself just label it as a problem because you don't like that some people are different. The only parts of Britain that have been lost are the parts where people still won't accept others for who they are and expect them to renounce everything about themselves and their culture the second they walk into Britain. It doesn't work that way. I also grew up in an area which was once very 'white British' and is now very multicultural and it makes me incredibly proud. I love to see how multicultural the area has become. There's nothing sad about it, what's sad is your attitude towards it. It gives you a chance to explore new cultures and learn new things you would not have ever been able to 50 years ago. Embrace it. It's an incredibly enriching thing.
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    Cry more
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    (Original post by Noooooooo)
    Yes and you're all very proud of destroying Europe's population

    I think heads should be rolling for this treason

    We must kill those who deny our EXISTANCE


    The only European countries not effected are those who resist like Poland

    Good luck taking all the nationalists on there..
    Fascist.
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    (Original post by JMR2017)
    First of all I think most immigrants are willing to integrate into our society. Secondly, it is sickening that you don't condemn the slaughtering/subjugation of the natives. Who is to say one culture is superior to another?, unless of course there are some hateful/violent things. I personally think aboriginal culture was beautiful, even more sophisticated than western culture at the time, and so many thousands of years ago. Finally we are all one human race, and your attitude is divisive. Do you not know that Western culture has evolved from a variety of cultures, and much our culture does originate in the Islamic world, e.g photography, algebra, our numerical system, medicine and hygiene etc.
    What are you smoking??

    Aboriginal culture was unbelievably primitive in the eighteenth century (when first encountered in a serious way by Europeans). It was stone age.

    In what possible way was it more sophisticated??? Are you comparing a few crude wall paintings to Leonardo and Michelangelo? A few blows on a pipe to Mozart and Beethoven? Some wanderings in "dreamtime" to Shakespeare and Milton?

    The aborigines had no technology to speak of, no culture of any worth, no philosophy. They had made nothing of their country. They hadn't even developed a written language!

    In the eighteenth century sailing around the world was comparable to going to the moon now. A prodigious enterprise.

    The aborigines could just about carve a canoe out of bark to cross the nearest river whilst Captain Cook was circumnavigating the whole globe.

    In what way were they a superior culture? What could they teach us then or now?
 
 
 
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