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Man born white says he is transracial and feels Filipino

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Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
But we do have reason to expect that reassignment surgery reduces that risk - we've got good reason to think that it improves mental health in trans individuals, and reduced suicide rates as a result of improved mental health is a logical conclusion. What we don't have is the stats to confirm that conclusion.


So by that logic if I tell an 30kg bulimic person they’re fat that would cheer them up? Or if I tell a paranoid schizophrenic that the dragons are telling him to burn his neighbour’s house down he’ll feel much better?
Original post by Underscore__
So by that logic if I tell an 30kg bulimic person they’re fat that would cheer them up? Or if I tell a paranoid schizophrenic that the dragons are telling him to burn his neighbour’s house down he’ll feel much better?


Is there any evidence suggesting encouraging psychosis in schizophrenics improves their health? I doubt it - they are not comparable
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Is there any evidence suggesting encouraging psychosis in schizophrenics improves their health? I doubt it - they are not comparable


You haven’t provided evidence that playing along with the delusion of people with gender dysphoria works, the links you provided were to articles that I couldn’t view because I had to pay and one article that said the improvement to quality of life was based on “very low quality evidence”. In your previous post you said it was a logical step that playing along with this delusion will improve quality of life, why is it logical to play along with one delusion but not another?
Original post by Underscore__
You haven’t provided evidence that playing along with the delusion of people with gender dysphoria works, the links you provided were to articles that I couldn’t view because I had to pay and one article that said the improvement to quality of life was based on “very low quality evidence”. In your previous post you said it was a logical step that playing along with this delusion will improve quality of life, why is it logical to play along with one delusion but not another?


Nonsense, that two werent open access doesn't mean I haven't provided it. The "very low quality" refers to the lack of a control group, typically you'd need one, when it comes to essentially denying treatment (this isn't a setting where clinic trial with placebos is possible), ethics becomes more complicated.

No, that's not what I said - I said it's a logical conclusion that improved mental health/reduced gender dsyphoria would reduce suicidal activity.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Nonsense, that two werent open access doesn't mean I haven't provided it. The "very low quality" refers to the lack of a control group, typically you'd need one, when it comes to essentially denying treatment (this isn't a setting where clinic trial with placebos is possible), ethics becomes more complicated.

No, that's not what I said - I said it's a logical conclusion that improved mental health/reduced gender dsyphoria would reduce suicidal activity.


The article concludes with:

“Very low quality evidence suggests that sex reassignment that includes hormonal interventions in individuals with GID likely improves gender dysphoria, psychological functioning and comorbidities, sexual function and overall quality of life.”

The author is saying the evidence is of very low quality.

If all you can provide (other than the above) is articles that anyone who wants to read has to pay £35 for you may as well have not bothered providing anything
Rob Liddle summed it all up pretty well in the Sunday Times yesterday:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2017-11-19/comment/are-you-transphobic-no-me-neither-were-just-worried-about-our-children-kfp6csn0z
It is behind a paywall, so:

One of the pleasures of being on BBC1’s Question Time is the opportunity to out-bigot the rest of the panel. When Ukip was around this was sometimes a bit of a tall order but, to my credit, I always gave it a go. It’s the thrill of hearing the bien-pensant audience gasp in horror, or start crying, that does it for me.

Invited on again last week I looked down the list of my fellow panellists and thought to myself: “Ah. This should be a doddle!” The Lib Dem Tim Farron, the shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry, the very leftie crime writer Val McDermid and a charmingly liberal Conservative, Nadhim Zahawi.

Good Lord, if I can’t display a more obnoxious prejudice than that bunch I should hang up my pen and retire. Just wait for the right question to come along and jump in with both feet. And sure enough, halfway through the programme it came: how should schools deal with children who have “gender dysphoria”?

One by one the panellists addressed the issue. The politicians tiptoed a little, aware of the controversies. But they all seemed to be in total agreement with Val, who spoke first. She talked about care and counselling and so on, but was quite clear: no medical intervention to facilitate gender alignment until the child was 16. And she spoke with eloquence about how, when she was a kid, she had been rather boyish and how she was very grateful not to have been shepherded towards gender re-alignment.

I could see the look of desperation on David Dimbleby’s face he wanted debate and contention. He turned to me. But I couldn’t disagree with anything that had preceded it’s what I would have said and expected to be vilified for saying. I scrabbled around in my brain in an attempt to help David out and finally came up with “no medical intervention until 18”. There, that showed, em, huh? Pathetic. The audience, I thought, will tear us all to pieces for our transphobia. But they didn’t. They largely agreed, too.

It was at that precise moment I understood, with blinding clarity. Pretty much the entire country is in agreement on this issue. With the exception of the transgender lobby, the people who run our schools, the people who teach in our schools, the social workers and the secretary of state for education. Oh, and the gender re-alignment clinics, which are raking it in.

The country at large, I think, believes children shouldn’t be harassed from an early age about their gender identity and that it is madness to send pre-pubescent kids along the route to re-alignment. That having doubts about one’s gender along with everything else is pretty much par for the course for children, and even more so adolescents. Part of growing up. I suspect do please tell me if I’m wrong that this current obsession is a dangerous and stupid genuflection to our latest form of political correctness and will harm many, many more children than it helps.

And yet the initiatives are being rolled out, nevertheless, with fatuous “gender inclusive” lavatories and changing rooms and teachers ever more anxious to shove right-on messages about transgenderism down the throats of vulnerable young people.

A report backed by the Scottish government advises teachers to identify children who may be “gender dysphoric” and indulge to the full their youthful misapprehension. And (here’s the good bit) if the parents get stroppy to refer the issue to social services possibly to question custody.

Meanwhile, the National Union of Teachers has demanded that children as young as two should be taught about transgenderism, while the Good Schools Guide talks about the “tremendous anguish” occasioned by kids who do not have their transgender fantasies indulged. Infant schools here hold transgender days, to the disgust of the parents, with “lessons on non-gendered biology” (that is, probably unscientific lies) and a class on “creating unisex spaces” (it’s those bogs again).
Swallowing this malevolent rot whole is our hopeless education secretary, Justine Greening, who also wishes for the youngest children to start questioning their gender and intends to make it easier for people to transition by removing the need for medical diagnosis. And the gender re-alignment clinics have reported a sixfold increase in referrals on five years ago there were more than 2,000 in 2016 for 3 to 18-year-olds, including 165 kids under the age of 10 and 84 under the age of 7.

The public is not remotely with the supposed authorities on any of this. And this hideous experiment will hurt people. Will hurt parents and, most importantly, children.
Original post by Underscore__
The article concludes with:

“Very low quality evidence suggests that sex reassignment that includes hormonal interventions in individuals with GID likely improves gender dysphoria, psychological functioning and comorbidities, sexual function and overall quality of life.”

The author is saying the evidence is of very low quality.

If all you can provide (other than the above) is articles that anyone who wants to read has to pay £35 for you may as well have not bothered providing anything


Yes, and the author is referring to it as low quality because the studies lack control groups...
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
the studies lack control groups...


Which means no conclusions should be drawn from the evidence.
Tbh, I feel like should've been born as a Japanese woman.
Original post by Good bloke
Which means no conclusions should be drawn from the evidence.


No, it means you treat the data with more caution and focus scrutiny on the validity of the researchers extrapolations for hypothetical untreated arms. If you can, you have a control group, but treated right single group studies can provide reasonable insight.
Original post by hannxm
Tbh, I feel like should've been born as a Japanese woman.


You can be a Japanese woman if you want because those are just social constructs. You can also be superman and shoot laser beams from your eyes and fly at supersonic speeds. Just watch out for the Kryptonite though....or not, you Kryptonite-proof Superman.
Honestly my opinion is who cares about this person, let him do a reverse Micheal Jackson and turn his skin black. He has the autonomy to do so, doesn't mean he actually feels like a different race and if he thinks he does as he has so much disphoria about his body then let him transition, I see no difference between this and trans-gendered people, they both suffer from crippling disphoria that makes then incorrectly believe they were born in the wrong body, so if the cure for their mental-illness is transition then let them change. If it saves them psychologically then I might be in favor of the procedure being free.

But if they haven't been diagnosed with disphoria then they have to pay themselves for their surgery
Original post by Good bloke
Which means no conclusions should be drawn from the evidence.


You can try and rephrase it any way you like but the author of the study you cited essentially said ‘very low quality evidence suggests current treatments might be effective’ - hardly evidence that supports your position
Original post by Underscore__
hardly evidence that supports your position


My position is that no child should ever be put through this iniquitous process, and that most will come to realise that they are perfectly normal as they are when they are older.
Original post by Good bloke
My position is that no child should ever be put through this iniquitous process, and that most will come to realise that they are perfectly normal as they are when they are older.


Apologies, I meant to quote ‘Stiff Little Fingers’ not you.
Original post by Underscore__
Apologies, I meant to quote ‘Stiff Little Fingers’ not you.


I guessed as much.
Original post by Underscore__
You can try and rephrase it any way you like but the author of the study you cited essentially said ‘very low quality evidence suggests current treatments might be effective’ - hardly evidence that supports your position


I'm not rephrasing it, I'm explaining what it means... kinda hard to have a factual discussion without being clear on the terminology.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
I'm not rephrasing it, I'm explaining what it means... kinda hard to have a factual discussion without being clear on the terminology.


What terminology are you unclear on? The article you cited says:
Very low quality evidence suggests that sex reassignment that includes hormonal interventions in individuals with GID likely improves gender dysphoria, psychological functioning and comorbidities, sexual function and overall quality of life.”

So my takeaway was that not only do they say the evidence is of very low quality they're also saying that this low quality only makes them think the benefit is 'likely'
Original post by Underscore__
What terminology are you unclear on? The article you cited says:
Very low quality evidence suggests that sex reassignment that includes hormonal interventions in individuals with GID likely improves gender dysphoria, psychological functioning and comorbidities, sexual function and overall quality of life.”

So my takeaway was that not only do they say the evidence is of very low quality they're also saying that this low quality only makes them think the benefit is 'likely'


I'm not unclear on anything - you're clearly unclear on what "very low quality" meant, I'm clarifying what that actually means for you
At the end of the day if he gets cosmetic surgery to look Filipino then that's his right, as all it boils down to is the issue of bodily autonomy. If by the end of it he does indeed look like a Filipino, then what's it to you? It's really none of your business. And you should consider that Filipinos have a cultural concept that if you immigrate to their country and naturalise, you are "reborn" and are considered legitimately Filipino, whether you've had cosmetic surgery to look Asian or not.

But if he doesn't have any surgery but goes around calling himself Filipino, when he evidently is not (unless he has citizenship then in a way he is) then of course he's only making himself look a bit ridiculous.

But like I said the issue is a matter of bodily autonomy. If someone wants surgery to make themselves look Asian or black or whatever then it's not up to you to say they can't just the same as it is for transgender people. And if you want to ridicule them for that choice then all it really makes you is a bully.

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