The Student Room Group

To what extent has the Prime Minister become presidential?

Okay yes, I'm panic revising. And I should have done this months ago. But here it is, does anyone have any ideas.

I mean, I have the obvious ones -

FOR
- Thatcher/Blair, strong leaders, dominant over government (particularly old Thatch), would take into consideration cabinet's opinions but then use their own anyway.
- Head of state is queen, but this is ceremonial, the powers lie with the Prime Minister.
- Reagan/Thatcher + Blair/Bush-Clinton, shows the relationships between the 'heads of state', highlighting a presidential element to the prime minister.
- PM is very much a figurehead, and the media portrays him as the head of the party, government and party ideology.
- Decrease in cabinet meetings, seeing ministers on an individual basis.


AGAINST
-Elections are different
- Accountability is different - PM accountable to parliament, President directly to the people (although could it not be argued that the PM is accountable to the people through the media - televised house of commons debate, coverage in the broadsheet newspapers).
- exec and leg are not strictly seperate in the UK - government is drawn from parliament - PM head of gov.


Anyone got anything else? I'm sure there's stuff in the textbooks if I bothered looking, but I want some original, well thought out ideas. I think the key is not to write the same as everyone else.

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Reply 1
A president is elected by the people - the PM is appointed by the Queen.

The PM is not repsonsible for enacting laws. Interestingly enough the powers don't lie with the Prime Minister they lie with the Queen she just doesnt use them. The office of PM is a stranger to the law ie he is no different to any other minister of state exercising deligated decision making and perogative powers.
Reply 2
You could mention Brown's current intention to move perogative powers from the PM to PArliament. Perhaps showing that the position has become Presidential, and is being rectified. (Current stuff = lovely lovely marks)
Reply 3
How does that show it has become presidential?
Jurisprude
You could mention Brown's current intention to move perogative powers from the PM to PArliament. Perhaps showing that the position has become Presidential, and is being rectified. (Current stuff = lovely lovely marks)


Yeah that's great, I'm going to write that down on my hand, so hopefully it'll stick in my head by the time the exam comes.

:smile: thanks
also, would the fact that he wants outside party MPs as part of the cabinet be relevant? Like, sharing executive power?
Ethereal
A president is elected by the people - the PM is appointed by the Queen.

The PM is not repsonsible for enacting laws. Interestingly enough the powers don't lie with the Prime Minister they lie with the Queen she just doesnt use them. The office of PM is a stranger to the law ie he is no different to any other minister of state exercising deligated decision making and perogative powers.


Okay I see your point, but it's very de jure, de facto. I mean, in theory the powers lie with the queen, but in reality the PM exercises them.. If the government has a comfortable majority he can pretty much do as he pleases, plus there's the whip system and also the fact that he has the power to hire, fire and reshuffle ministers gives the PM, personally, power.
And the PM is appointed by the queen. But she will always choose the leader of the party that wins the general election.
Reply 8
However, the presidency point therefore fails. The powers can be taken back at any time by the monarch.
Reply 9
charmainecantyx
And the PM is appointed by the queen. But she will always choose the leader of the party that wins the general election.


Actually, she tried to call a minority gov in th 1970s
But would it really be taken back? Would she be able to do that in todays society without public uproar about it? So her powers are very much theoretical are they not?
Reply 11
Hmm....difficult. It could be argued, but it would be a tad tenuous, as it wouldn't be shared per se. The power would still rest with cabinet just a more diverse cabinet. It could however be argued that his wanting of differing opinions means that he wants to listen to different opinions. As a consequence cabinet is a fully functioning cabinet not one that pander to the whim of the PM Ref Thatcher and Blair. It doesn't however mean that Brown has to act on what's said. Seemingly he still likes to be controlling, not least with the economy, so to that extent it still seems like an EXOP!

It's an interesting point though. If you can explore it it may be worth going down in the exam, it will be fairly original. The list you gave first will of course be the same list that every othr student is using(!) It was the one I used :p:
Ethereal
Actually, she tried to call a minority gov in th 1970s



Tried to? Does this mean she was unsuccessful?
Jurisprude
Hmm....difficult. It could be argued, but it would be a tad tenuous, as it wouldn't be shared per se. The power would still rest with cabinet just a more diverse cabinet. It could however be argued that his wanting of differing opinions means that he wants to listen to different opinions. As a consequence cabinet is a fully functioning cabinet not one that pander to the whim of the PM Ref Thatcher and Blair. It doesn't however mean that Brown has to act on what's said. Seemingly he still likes to be controlling, not least with the economy, so to that extent it still seems like an EXOP!

It's an interesting point though. If you can explore it it may be worth going down in the exam, it will be fairly original. The list you gave first will of course be the same list that every othr student is using(!) It was the one I used :p:



Yeah it was pretty standard stuff. I think I need to explore as many up to date points as I can. That's what gets As so I'm told.
Reply 14
Ethereal
However, the presidency point therefore fails. The powers can be taken back at any time by the monarch.


Not really, or indeed at all. There is theoretically the power for the Queen to do this, but as has been said it simply would not happen. It is even possible to argue that it would be unconstitutional.
Reply 15
charmainecantyx
Tried to? Does this mean she was unsuccessful?


As I remember, a minority gov't was formed, but it failed,so they went back to the polls.
It didn't fail but Wilson went backl to te polls soon after to increase his power
Jurisprude
Not really, or indeed at all. There is theoretically the power for the Queen to do this, but as has been said it simply would not happen. It is even possible to argue that it would be unconstitutional.



Interesting : unconstitutional in what sense?
Reply 17
I'd love to see you try and argue that a monarchy with an uncodified consititution gauruntees its citizens that their head of state won't exerise her legal rights.

The point fails becaue quite simply put the de jure/de facto dichotomy prevents a true presidency ever happening here. At best you may aruge elective dictatorship but not presidency. The PM doesn't exercise even the basic functions of a president for example he is not the head of state, he is not able to sign bills in to law, he is not the head of the armed forces nor the civil defences forces...
Reply 18
charmainecantyx
Yeah it was pretty standard stuff. I think I need to explore as many up to date points as I can. That's what gets As so I'm told.


Yep! Definitly. But don't sacrifice form for new stuff. There are model answers for a reason. Examiners don't like you to be too original! A good solid essay with 1 or 2 new illustrations to demonstrate a standard point is the way to go. IMO. It's boring but solid.

I suppose it depends how adventurois you feel. Good luck wiht it!
Ethereal
I'd love to see you try and argue that a monarchy with an uncodified consititution gauruntees its citizens that their head of state won't exerise her legal rights.

The point fails becaue quite simply put the de jure/de facto dichotomy prevents a true presidency ever happening here. At best you may aruge elective dictatorship but not presidency. The PM doesn't exercise even the basic functions of a president for example he is not the head of state, he is not able to sign bills in to law, he is not the head of the armed forces nor the civil defences forces...



I wasn't suggesting with any of my points that there was a 'true presidency', simply a primeministarial government with increasing (certainly under Blair) presidential elements. We can only speculate what would happen if the queen tried to revoke her powers, but the point is that it's unlikely that she would. The Prime Minister is her representative, so although maybe not on paper, but in reality he is 'head of the armed forces' etc. He has inherited her prerogative.