Why we should stay in the EU regardless of the result

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Ladbants
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1) The referendum was advisory, not legally binding. Many people have changed their minds as the reality of what Brexit means is beginning to hit; thus it is only fair that we give people a right to have their voices heard at the end of the negotiations and, if they vote against the Brexit deal, we remain in the EU.
2) Various claims made by the Leave campaign have been found out to be false, such as saving "£350 million a week" and these were important reasons for people voting to leave. I know Brexiteers are going to say how the pound hasn't fallen as much as the Remain campaign said it would or businesses haven't left the UK yet and the economy is still going strong as examples of Remainer fears that failed to materialise but we haven't actually left the EU yet and the pound is already down, inflation is starting to creep in, business confidence has dropped, businesses are holding back from investing etc... It seems as though these fears will become reality in the next few years.
https://www.indy100.com/article/8-of...s--WyxD59VO3Nb
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8039506.html
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...brexit-anxiety
3) The primary reason as to why we elect representatives into parliament is because we are not educated enough on all issues to decide on them ourselves. That is why we elect people we feel are qualified enough to make these complex decisions. Many people on both sides were uneducated on what Brexit entails and immediately after the referendum one of the top searches on Google in the UK is "What is the EU?". Most people aren't as knowledgeable as we'd like to think.
4) There is a growing body of evidence to suggest that Russia may have interfered in the referendum, as it did in the US election. Russia reportedly placed advertisements on social media supporting the Leave vote. These claims should be investigated and if true it would mean that the referendum result should be declared void.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.8c84d085e202
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TimmonaPortella
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(Original post by Ladbants)
1) The first referendum was advisory, not legally binding.
So would a second one be.

2) Various claims made by the Leave campaign have been found out to be false, such as saving "£350 million a week"
This claim is perfectly true as far as it goes. The complaint really is that it omits certain other facts that might be considered pertinent. This is called 'spin' and if it invalidated election results in itself we would never have a government.

3) The primary reason as to why we elect representatives into parliament is because we are not educated enough on all issues to decide on them ourselves.
Then why do you want another referendum?

edit:

(Original post by Ladbants)
4) There is a growing body of evidence to suggest that Russia may have interfered in the referendum, as it did in the US election.
Didn't Obama fly here to tell us, quite openly, how we should vote?
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Ladbants
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
So would a second one be.



This claim is perfectly true as far as it goes. The complaint really is that it omits certain other facts that might be considered pertinent. This is called 'spin' and if it invalidated election results in itself we would never have a government.



Then why do you want another referendum?

edit:



Didn't Obama fly here to tell us, quite openly, how we should vote?
The claim isn't true and there comes a point at which it's no longer 'spin' but misleading. The UK Statistics Authority has declared it as such:
https://fullfact.org/europe/350-mill...hority-misuse/

The difference between Obama, an ally of the UK, merely hoping that we'd stay and speaking of his concerns of a Brexit while saying he'd respect the decision of our people and Russia, a country that is deeply suspicious of the West and is actively seeking to compete against it, secretly trying to help a referendum campaign that may help towards the disintegration of the EU as a whole in the future is a big difference.
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paul514
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(Original post by TimmonaPortella)
Didn't Obama fly here to tell us, quite openly, how we should vote?
I can’t believe you bothered replying to that crap
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Ambitious1999
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(Original post by Ladbants)
The claim isn't true and there comes a point at which it's no longer 'spin' but misleading. The UK Statistics Authority has declared it as such:
https://fullfact.org/europe/350-mill...hority-misuse/

The difference between Obama, an ally of the UK, merely hoping that we'd stay and speaking of his concerns of a Brexit while saying he'd respect the decision of our people and Russia, a country that is deeply suspicious of the West and is actively seeking to compete against it, secretly trying to help a referendum campaign that may help towards the disintegration of the EU as a whole in the future is a big difference.
Russia is only helping liberate Britain from the shackles of EU dictatorship. We should leave the EU totally it should have happened on 25th June 2016. We should also withdraw from the council of Europe and scrap all EU laws with immediate effect.
Restore our borders and get Brits spending their money and using their skills in Great Britain. We don’t need EUrope and never have.
I didn’t vote in the referendum because I was too young but at first thought Brexit was a bad idea but now I know we must be liberated from this dictatorship.
Russia and Britain can be the best of friends and had we left on June 25 2016 Russia could have helped our newly independent nation.
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computernerd1001
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Screw democracy, lets just keep doing referendums until we get the result you want, right?
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Trinculo
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(Original post by computernerd1001)
Screw democracy, lets just keep doing referendums until we get the result you want, right?
Well, this is the basis of the EU.
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monkeyman0121
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Some people want to watch the world burn...
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Ambitious1999
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(Original post by computernerd1001)
Screw democracy, lets just keep doing referendums until we get the result you want, right?
(Original post by Trinculo)
Well, this is the basis of the EU.
There is nothing to stop us from leaving the EU with immediate effect say by midnight today and there not a damned thing they could do to stop us. We just close our borders to and from the EU.
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computernerd1001
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(Original post by Trinculo)
Well, this is the basis of the EU.
Some people aren't happy about the result, hey, quite a lot of people aren't by the looks of it. But the thing that's going to hit this country the hardest is it's inability to accept the result of the referendum, because we can't start to move forward otherwise.
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computernerd1001
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(Original post by Ambitious1999)
There is nothing to stop us from leaving the EU with immediate effect say by midnight today and there not a damned thing they could do to stop us. We just close our borders to and from the EU.
I would assume that legally that would cause some issues. And it wouldn't happen, because some people are even arguing about a second referendum, so how could we possibly leave now?
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Trinculo
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(Original post by computernerd1001)
I would assume that legally that would cause some issues. And it wouldn't happen, because some people are even arguing about a second referendum, so how could we possibly leave now?
Realistically, it would bring the country down. Both major parties are hopelessly split on Europe, and the others - LibDems, Greens, SNP, UKIP have fundamental views one way or the other.

There are too many people, who in reality would choose the EU (not Europe) over the UK.
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computernerd1001
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(Original post by Trinculo)
Realistically, it would bring the country down. Both major parties are hopelessly split on Europe, and the others - LibDems, Greens, SNP, UKIP have fundamental views one way or the other.

There are too many people, who in reality would choose the EU (not Europe) over the UK.
If people were forced to choose suddenly like the scenario presented, I reckon it probably would shift favour to remain anyway. Being pushed into a decision that is already dividing the country (I mean, this thread exists) would cause chaos.

Again, it would never happen, but I suppose it's interesting to debate on.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by Ambitious1999)
There is nothing to stop us from leaving the EU with immediate effect say by midnight today and there not a damned thing they could do to stop us. We just close our borders to and from the EU.
In theory, yes. But breaching international treaties is heavily frowned upon by our EU and non-EU partners, believe it or not.

(Original post by computernerd1001)
Screw democracy, lets just keep doing referendums until we get the result you want, right?
There was a referendum in 1975, yet pro-Leave pushed for another referendum. Is the vote only democratic and sacrosanct when it means we leave the EU? And I have to say, the vote back then was not anywhere near as close as the 2016 one. It was owed a lot more deference than this marginal vote.
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computernerd1001
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(Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
There was a referendum in 1975, yet pro-Leave pushed for another referendum. Is the vote only democratic and sacrosanct when it means we leave the EU? And I have to say, the vote back then was not anywhere near as close as the 2016 one. It was owed a lot more deference than this marginal vote.
I don't actually have a steadfast position on Brexit, despite what you appear to have concluded. If the referendum had flipped to remain, and brexiteers were the ones complaining, I'd be saying the same thing. Squabbling about it now helps noone, except perhaps the EU negotiation-wise.

Also, it has been 42 (41 at the time I suppose) years, and I'd assume attitudes and political climates have changed in that time.
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EmmaRebecca1997
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I was remain for the referendum but honestly this needs to stop. People voted out. That's that. That's the result. We just need to hurry up and do it. The problems we are facing are because of the uncertainty of the fact we're currently in the middle. Theresa just needs to get this done so we can rebuild. People need to stop suggesting stupid things like a second referendum. The result wasn't what we wanted. That's life. We now need to move forward. If we don't soon we are going to face a lot of problems.
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Notoriety
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(Original post by computernerd1001)
I don't actually have a steadfast position on Brexit, despite what you appear to have concluded. If the referendum had flipped to remain, and brexiteers were the ones complaining, I'd be saying the same thing. Squabbling about it now helps noone, except perhaps the EU negotiation-wise.

Also, it has been 42 (41 at the time I suppose) years, and I'd assume attitudes and political climates have changed in that time.
Your point was about democracy, not how much time has elapsed. Suppose a second vote were to take place after a two-year transitionary period, that would be 4 years for people to change their minds, or to ardently reaffirm they're sticking to it. A lot will have changed in that time; particularly, people will be a lot more educated about what the EU does from the negotiations', i.e. specifically what we are to lose and gain, being heavily reported in the press.
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Ambitious1999
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(Original post by computernerd1001)
I would assume that legally that would cause some issues. And it wouldn't happen, because some people are even arguing about a second referendum, so how could we possibly leave now?
(Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
In theory, yes. But breaching international treaties is heavily frowned upon by our EU and non-EU partners, believe it or not.



There was a referendum in 1975, yet pro-Leave pushed for another referendum. Is the vote only democratic and sacrosanct when it means we leave the EU? And I have to say, the vote back then was not anywhere near as close as the 2016 one. It was owed a lot more deference than this marginal vote.

In 2014 Crimea voted to leave the Ukraine and that happened with immediate effect. They weren’t left poudling around for 2 years.
We could leave the EU just as easily as that and there are countries like Russia that don’t like the EU and would fully support Britain’s immediate withdrawal. We cease all payments to the EU and close our borders to the EU.

Effectively there’s not a damn thing either the EU or Remoaners could do about that.
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computernerd1001
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(Original post by Notorious_B.I.G.)
Your point was about democracy, not how much time has elapsed. Suppose a second vote were to take place after a two-year transitionary period, that would be 4 years for people to change their minds, or to ardently reaffirm they're sticking to it. A lot will have changed in that time; particularly, people will be a lot more educated about what the EU does from the negotiations', i.e. specifically what we are to lose and gain, being heavily reported in the press.
I think there's quite a difference between the previous referendum to this one and this one to a second, but you do have a point. If it was done once for one side, why not the other kind of thing.

The voting demographic would be vastly different this time around I'm assuming, due to the year gap, whereas one in a few years time would see some younger people and maybe a couple who didn't vote the first time. Something to consider, I suppose.

I'd be interested to know if this referendum was supposed to be a second referendum to the instance you mentioned, actually.
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computernerd1001
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(Original post by Ambitious1999)
In 2014 Crimea voted to leave the Ukraine and that happened with immediate effect. They weren’t left poudling around for 2 years.
We could leave the EU just as easily as that and there are countries like Russia that don’t like the EU and would fully support Britain’s immediate withdrawal. We cease all payments to the EU and close our borders to the EU.

Effectively there’s not a damn thing either the EU or Remoaners could do about that.
If we had done that from the start, perhaps. Not so much now.

I'd guess that the vote you are referencing was a stronger majority than the Brexit vote, too.
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