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# Need help with this tricky integration question watch

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1. So the question is to integrate

My working out is below
Note: After I used a second substitution, I realised I was going no one with it and the integration calculators online have strange approaches to this question.

Spoiler:
Show

2. No substitutions required. First step, times top and bottom by (sinx-cosx)/(sinx-cosx) then use the cos2x identity . Tbf I didn't work that out but seeing the answer gave it away for me.
3. And yeah god cleaning it up at the end is a nightmare too. Do you want me to work through it again in a clear way then post a picture to get past the integrating stage then you can see if you can clean it up to get to that point.
And yeah god cleaning it up at the end is a nightmare too. Do you want me to work through it again in a clear way then post a picture to get past the integrating stage then you can see if you can clean it up to get to that point.
I understand how the denominator becomes but I'm still figuring out the numerator because I have
5. (Original post by ManLike007)
I understand how the denominator becomes but I'm still figuring out the numerator because I have
At this point it is easiest if you split the fraction. You should be able to deal with the sin^2(x) bit using cos(2x)=1-2sin^2(x). You can then use sin(2x)=2sin(x)cos(x) for the second fraction. After that point you should be able to cancel stuff so you have standard integrals. I guess it's still quite difficult if you don't have a formula book on you with a bunch of standard integrals in it. Where is this question from because it sure as hell ain't a c4 question XD.
At this point it is easiest if you split the fraction. You should be able to deal with the sin^2(x) bit using cos(2x)=1-2sin^2(x). You can then use sin(2x)=2sin(x)cos(x) for the second fraction. After that point you should be able to cancel stuff so you have standard integrals. I guess it's still quite difficult if you don't have a formula book on you with a bunch of standard integrals in it. Where is this question from because it sure as hell ain't a c4 question XD.
Oh lol no it's not A Level, it's a problem solving sheet from my university
7. Okay yeah I've gotten to the provided answer .
8. (Original post by ManLike007)
Oh lol no it's not A Level, it's a problem solving sheet from my university
Ah fair fairs. Yeah tbh I wouldn't have know what to do without peaking at the answer. I think the general thought process should be that with trig integrals you are gonna want to use identities and to use identities, most have sin or cos squared so you want to make as much sin or cos squared while getting rid of the cos and sin to the power 1. .
9. Do the problem solving sheets count for any of your grade or are they just for supervision type thingies?
Do the problem solving sheets count for any of your grade or are they just for supervision type thingies?
Nah it's just practice, we have 1 hour each week taught by a PhD student and we get as far as we can with the work sheet, same goes for my other modules.
11. (Original post by ManLike007)
Nah it's just practice, we have 1 hour each week taught by a PhD student and we get as far as we can with the work sheet, same goes for my other modules.
Ah fair fairs, sounds fun .
12. (Original post by ManLike007)
So the question is to integrate

My working out is below
Note: After I used a second substitution, I realised I was going no one with it and the integration calculators online have strange approaches to this question.

Spoiler:
Show

If you can't recognise what the poster above suggested a tangent half angle substitution would also work, but it is longer.
13. As this integral is for fun, here's a fun method useful for similar integrals:

Let and .

Consider and to form a system of equations and solve for and .
14. (Original post by ManLike007)
Where does the come in?

I'm left with whereas the answer is
You have .This is probably where you dropped the 1/2.
15. (Original post by _gcx)
You have .This is probably where you dropped the 1/2.
I know! I just realised it, my bad, I deleted my comment but then you just replied, thanks for the method by the way.

Is this method only applicable in cases where you have ? (where A and B are functions) What's this method called as well?
16. (Original post by NotNotBatman)
If you can't recognise what the poster above suggested a tangent half angle substitution would also work, but it is longer.
I'm sorry, I've never heard of this method before but thanks for your time though
17. (Original post by _gcx)
As this integral is for fun, here's a fun method useful for similar integrals:

Let and .

Consider and to form a system of equations and solve for and .
Thanks, I love this method!
Ah fair fairs. Yeah tbh I wouldn't have know what to do without peaking at the answer. I think the general thought process should be that with trig integrals you are gonna want to use identities and to use identities, most have sin or cos squared so you want to make as much sin or cos squared while getting rid of the cos and sin to the power 1. .
Lol I've given up on this, I shouldn't have spent 2 hours on this question but thanks for your contribution
19. (Original post by ManLike007)
Lol I've given up on this, I shouldn't have spent 2 hours on this question but thanks for your contribution
I know you've given up, but another approach that might make sense for you:

Make the substitution u = x + pi / 4, then

sin x + cos x =

and sin x = sin(u-pi/4) = sin u cos pi/4 - cos u sin pi /4 =

This gives you an integral very similar to what you started with, but with numerator and denominator flipped. Since it is much easier to divide sin u and cos u by sin u than it is to divide sin x by (sin x + cos x), this new integral is pretty straightforward.
20. (Original post by DFranklin)
I know you've given up, but another approach that might make sense for you:

Make the substitution u = x + pi / 4, then

sin x + cos x =

and sin x = sin(u-pi/4) = sin u cos pi/4 - cos u sin pi /4 =

This gives you an integral very similar to what you started with, but with numerator and denominator flipped. Since it is much easier to divide sin u and cos u by sin u than it is to divide sin x by (sin x + cos x), this new integral is pretty straightforward.
I perfectly understand what you've done but after you integrate, my answer isn't actually what I want,

(LaTex bugged out towards the end of my last sentence writing cos(x) so I couldn't use a fraction)

Am I doing something wrong here?

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