School inspectors to question Muslim girls who wear hijabs

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Not really, because the purpose of the hijab is to protect the sexual modesty of the wearer from the gaze of lustful men.

However, I agree that all religious symbolism should be banned in schools, and RE only taught as a contextual part of the history syllabus.

I wear a cross. I work in a school. Never been a problem. Also, most people have some sort of religion. Teaching religious tolerance (and not enforcing atheism) is important. Religion is something that's very current and should be taught as such.

Reply 81

username1799249

Original post by generallee

There are female Bishops in the Church of England! BISHOPS.

The parts of the Anglican Communion which most vehemently oppose female ordination (let alone Bishops) are in Africa. How dare you criticise that?

You racy racy racist. Shame on you. :biggrin:

Yep - CofE. That is part of the Anglican community. Are their female bishops in Africa? or America? Or South America?

You cunningly didn't pass comment on the Catholic or Jewish faiths. What were you saying about Islam again?

Reply 82

username1799249

Original post by QE2

Oh, so because othwer organisations are gender discriminatory, that makes Islam OK.

Not at all. But I question why one would single out Islam to make a point about equality when inequality is pretty rife across most facets of society around the world.

Are you against Equality or Islam?

Reply 83

QE2

Original post by GreenBell

I think this is the perfect example of a 'standard apologist excuse' from someone. For someone who goes around saying things like that you should really look at your comments first. I asked you a question and you answered the same thing. -_-

You seem confused. I asked you a question and you responded with "I can't be bothered".

Ask me a question. I guarantee I will reply. And almost certainly provide supporting evidence or reasoning.

Reply 84

QE2

Original post by GreenBell

Most Muslim countries don't even follow the Islamic political views and they usually make up what they think is right so there's nothing Islamic about it. It's just a country with politics.

This is correct. Apologists will always point out that Muslim countries that have dubious records in human rights, tolerance, equality, etc, are not "following Islam properly".
And yet, when a state does implement everything prescribed in the Quran and sunnah, without any pandering to modern expectations, those same apologists complain even more!

Reply 85

QE2

Original post by GreenBell

Who decided who will get a nobel prize? Where is it located also?

Prizes are awarded by the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, which is made up of members from all round the world.

Reply 86

Discombobulated5

Original post by Zxyn

Of course they’re being forced to wear it at that age. I highly doubt a girl would ask their mum to wear the hijab, after years of being forced, they feel guilty for taking it off and wear it for the rest of their lives - not all, but it’s the case for many.

Most people are forced into religion and what they think is a connection to god is actually a symbol of instilled guilt and fear making it difficult to practice any other way of life without that guilt and fear coming to the surface.

This is from my own experience: I would beg my mum to wear a hijab when I was only 4 years old, my parents would make me take it off because they thought I was uncomfortable in it, but I kept it on. I have a sister who is 6 years old and she also begs my mum to let her wear the hijab. Also, a lot of my friends agree that kids are more enthusiastic about wearing the scarf than teenagers and this isn’t due to religious reasons but because they just see it as fun, it really isn’t that deep to them.

Reply 87

GreenBell

Original post by QE2

Well then give me a state that does implement everything prescribed in the Quran?

Are you trying to say that if a Muslim country has ‘dubious records in human rights, tolerance, equality, etc’ then they must be following Islam. I guess that’s the same for Christian and Buddhist etc countries too? Or do you only hold that opinion towards Islam.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 88

generallee

Original post by ByEeek

Yep - CofE. That is part of the Anglican community. Are their female bishops in Africa? or America? Or South America?

In America there are. In fact the Episcopalian Primate used to be a woman.

Africa and South America no. But like I said, it is disappointingly racy racy racist of you to point it out. Poor show, ByEeek. :s-smilie:

Original post by ByEeek

You cunningly didn't pass comment on the Catholic or Jewish faiths. What were you saying about Islam again?

Yeah, they are both sexist. How does that exonerate Islam from the same charge?

And surely if you criticise these two religions for their sexism, doesn't that incriminate Islam too?

If you ask me, the whole concept of the Abrahamic religions is sexist. Part of the patriarchy.

Who could be more of a patriach than Abraham? He defines the term.

And why is God/Allah/Jehovah a man? Why is it "Our Father which art in heaven?" Answer me that?

That's sexist. I think the left needs to get on it more. :smile:

Reply 89

username1799249

Original post by generallee

But like I said, it is disappointingly racy racy racist of you to point it out. Poor show, ByEeek. :s-smilie:

So that I don't make the same mistake twice, could you please point out where I was being racist?

Reply 90

blossomed

I wore a headscarf out of curiosity as my mother wore it on. It's the same reason why I began to pray, I wanted to do what my parents were doing and I wasn't forced to do or wear anything. My parents would have supported any of my choices, so I guess Alhamdulillah I was blessed with amazing parents. :smile:

Reply 91

QE2

Original post by ByEeek

Sorry - were you talking about Islam or Catholicism, Judaism or even some parts of Anglicism when you were talking about the male dominance in the world's major religions?

Or perhaps you were making reference to the lack of women in senior positions of the UKs FTSE 100 companies? Or the gender pay gap in this country?

It's all so confusing - I wasn't sure just exactly what point you were trying to make.

How was it confusing? The words are pretty understandable, I just checked. I even got them all in the right order and everything.

Employing whataboutery (and pretty tenuously at that) to defend gender discrimination is not very convincing.

Why not just say "All gender discrimination is unacceptable, even when it is supported by Islamic doctrine".
Go on. Have a go. It's really easy.

I condemn any and all gender discrimination, even when it is not enshrined in perpetually immutable revelation. However, as this thread is about Islam's approach to such issues, it would seem odd to bring in UK employment statistics. But as you have, I am happy to state that there should be no pay gap, and gender should not be a factor when filling positions, only ability. As for other religions, they are all bonkers and intolerant to a greater or lesser degree. If you want to discuss gender discrimination in Christianity, start a thread and I'll see you there.

Reply 92

QE2

Original post by katf

I wear a cross. I work in a school. Never been a problem.

But you don't need to wear a cross to be a Christian. Why do you feel the need to show that you are Christian to people?
Schools should be about genuine learning and enquiry, not legitimising Bronze Age mythology.

Also, most people have some sort of religion.

The latest surveys show that most people are not religious.

Teaching religious tolerance (and not enforcing atheism) is important. Religion is something that's very current and should be taught as such.

"Religious tolerance" is an oxymoron. Christianity is intolerant of anyone who is not a Christian. Or have the conditions for avoiding purgatory changed recently? Likewise, Islam is intolerant of those who refuse to sumbit to Islam.

Why do children need to be taught to be religious? The best option is to teach it as part of history (and later, philosophy) and let children decide for themselves rather than indoctrinating them with threats and reward from an early age. Atheism can't be "forced" on a young child - they are atheist by default until adults tell them that they belong to one religion or another. It is an abuse of responsibility.

Reply 93

QE2

Original post by ByEeek

You cunningly didn't pass comment on the Catholic or Jewish faiths. What were you saying about Islam again?

Yes, the Catholic church is also an intolerant, oppressive anachronism, as is orthodox Judaism. I fail to see why that makes Islam any less so?

Reply 94

QE2

Original post by ByEeek

Not at all. But I question why one would single out Islam to make a point about equality when inequality is pretty rife across most facets of society around the world.

Erm, because it's a thread about gender issues in Islam, perhaps?

The thing to do is condemn all such inequality, not attempt to defend it. I question why one would do so.

Are you against Equality or Islam?

I assume you meany "inequality" here.
I am against both. They are not mutually exclusive.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 95

QE2

Original post by GreenBell

Well then give me a state that does implement everything prescribed in the Quran?

The only one that really goes all the way and refuses to make any concessions to centuries of progress is ISIS.

Are you trying to say that if a Muslim country has ‘dubious records in human rights, tolerance, equality, etc’ then they must be following Islam.

Not at all. However, there are countries who employ barbaric punishments and impose discriminatory and intolerant practices because they are in the Quran and sunnah.

I guess that’s the same for Christian and Buddhist etc countries too? Or do you only hold that opinion towards Islam.

Although the problem is much less apparent - probably because of the way Christianity has been allowed to evolve and adapt, there are indeed countries who impose the unacceptable simply because it is religiously mandated. Western Europe/Scandinavia is probably the least affected today, but even there the recent laws relating to sex, gender and the suchlike were rooted in religious bigotry.
It is clear that the less ideological a country becomes, the more egalitarian and tolerant it is.

Reply 96

generallee

Original post by ByEeek

So that I don't make the same mistake twice, could you please point out where I was being racist?

It was a joke.

Just between ourselves I am so sick of the weaponisation of race by the left that I use every opportunity to ridicule it. What else can you do with such arrant nonsense but laugh? How can you consider condemnation of UCL dreaming of a "white campus" in any serious light? It is all a joke.

I firmly believe we are all unconsciously racist. It is part of human nature, regrettably. So whilst it may have been racist to implicitly condemn the Anglican Church of Nigeria for its antediluvian attitudes to female ordination and homosexuality, you are in good company.

Reply 97

Ameba

Original post by kokaled

muslim here; don't get the idea behind getting 6 year old girls to wear hijab- honestly for that matter any school girl - I know some who wear it by choice but c'mon really? no 6 year old needs a hijab

you're kinda becoming the exact people you want to protect your daughters from

I've seen one around that age wearing one for prayer, and I think you do have to wear a hijab during prayer - am I right in saying that?

Reply 98

generallee

Original post by blossomed

Would your parents support your "choice" to become an atheist, were you to lose your faith?

Would they support your "choice" to convert to Judaism or Christianity and marry a follower of one of those faiths, were you to fall in love?

If so, then yes you are blessed. Your parents really will allow you to do what you want, not what they may desire.

My parents weren't particularly "amazing", in truth, they did an OK job I guess. :smile:

But when I fell in love with the follower of another faith they hid their disappointment (if they had it, they never told me they felt it) and welcomed her into the family.

Reply 99

GreenBell

Original post by QE2

The only one that really goes all the way and refuses to make any concessions to centuries of progress is ISIS.

Not really, like I said before they make up their own rules and have actually made up some Hadiths as well but I guess since I disagree with what you said am an 'apologist with an excuse'. Anyways, I don't mind discussing the Quran with you but I won't be standing up for any Muslim country just because they believe in Islam, same way I won't stand up for any Muslim person because at the end of the day they are humans and just like everyone else can make their own decisions.

Original post by QE2

Not at all. However, there are countries who employ barbaric punishments and impose discriminatory and intolerant practices because they are in the Quran and sunnah.

I do agree with what you said but like I said before, they add on their own rulings and sometimes ignore verses and Hadiths to suit their own agenda and politics.