oxbridge applications before internet

Original post by nulli tertius

Remember Oxford was admitting students for 700 years before the internet. There were a lot of changes in that time.

You wouldn't happen to have a nice chart showing total Oxford (or, even better, Cambridge!) student numbers per year since, oh I don't know..., 1400 onwards....

:smile:

Reply 22

Original post by vincrows

How old?
In olden days(before 1960?/70’s when older cantabs in my family) , they could apply both to oxford and Cambridge, unlike now.

You could apply to both in my day (early 1980s). You sat one exam and the papers were marked by your first choice and passed to your second. It was dropped because there were very few who got into their second choice. Of course organ scholars can still apply to both (now outside UCAS for the second)

Reply 23

Original post by vincrows

Can’t remember exactly when, but Oxbridge joined the system of applying to universities through UCAS (it was a different name in those days) quite late and before that you had to apply to them individually and you had to sit their entrance exams (and with interviews just like now, of course).

UCCA ran for the first time (apart from one or two pilots) for the 1964 admissions cycle. Oxofrd and Cambridge joined for the 1966 admissions cycle. It was imperative that Oxbridge were brought into the system, hence they effectively wrote their own terms. The purpose of UCCA was to stamp out the practice of multiple acceptance. Oxbridge had no need of UCCA. Oxford and Cambridge collaborated to prevent multiple acceptance between themselves.

It didn't matter to Oxbridge if someone accepted Manchester as well. They were going to enrol at Oxbridge. It mattered very much to Manchester however. Hence getting Oxbridge on-board was vital to the success of UCCA.

Reply 24

Original post by Doonesbury

You wouldn't happen to have a nice chart showing total Oxford (or, even better, Cambridge!) student numbers per year since, oh I don't know..., 1400 onwards....

:smile:

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 25

Original post by Doonesbury

You wouldn't happen to have a nice chart showing total Oxford (or, even better, Cambridge!) student numbers per year since, oh I don't know..., 1400 onwards....

:smile:

The traditional estimates for most of the Middle Ages 1500 persons (dons plus students) at Oxford and less than half that number at Cambridge.

There is data out there and most college histories give numbers admitted each year.

UPDATE For Oxford see the table at page 760 of Brockliss

https://www.amazon.co.uk/University-Oxford-History-L-W-B-Brockliss/dp/0199243565/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511657645&sr=8-1&keywords=brockliss+oxford#reader_0199243565

If you put 760 into the search feature you will get there.

Reply 26

Original post by nulli tertius

Right......
Obviously I’d remembered some of the things wrongly then. Thanks for correcting and thank you very much for sharing your knowledge on the history of Oxbridge application with us. Very interesting. :smile:

I’d assumed (wrongly) Oxbridge didn’t join UCCA until much later because in those days when the older cantabs in my family applied, the way you applied to Oxbridge was slightly different (or they handled it differently) than application to other universities. Do you happen to know how different?

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 27

Original post by filmaker

does anyone know what the oxbridge applications were like before the internet was a thing?

So from the perspective of the mid 1970's, let's think of the differences.

(a) Paper based. As others have already said, you filled in the UCCA form and a Cambridge form, applied stamps, and waited.

(b) Entrance exams - for mathematics, I sat four mathematics papers, a physics paper and a general paper. Standard was a bit higher than that of current STEP papers, but not a lot. Way beyond A-level standard.

(c) 4th term and 7th term entry. You could apply in the 4th term of the sixth form, but at my school students were advised to only do this for certain subjects (usually arts). Most came back for the beginning of a third year of sixth form and sat 7th term papers around November.

(d) Entrance scholarships and Exhibitions. If you did very well in the entrance exams, either £60 or £40 was sent your way, together with the warm glow of being able to put "Entrance Scholar" or "Entrance Exhibitioner" on your CV.

(e) Notification by telegram!! At least if you won an entrance award.

was it more for the elite than everyone who's capable?

Even by the 1970's Cambridge was very keen to "widen participation". Key thing was to be bright as opposed to where you came from. However, less focus than now on compensating for background in the admissions process.

Reply 28

Original post by Gregorius

Most came back for the beginning of a third year of sixth form and sat 7th term papers around November.

What did you do for the rest of your 3rd year in Sixth Form. Cambridge applicants were rare enough at my place that they usually made them head boy for that year, but I didn't realise they had bugger-all to do after November...

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Reply 29

Original post by nulli tertius

Excellent. Thanks.

Student numbers at Oxford since c1300, undergraduates and postgraduates:
Oxford student numbers since c1300.jpg

Interesting to see the growth especially in postgrads recently.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 30

Original post by Gregorius

Thank you for popping in and sharing your knowledge and experience.

In those days the focus of the government was more on encouraging and helping children from working class to get better education than putting pressure on universities to accept applicants from less advantaged background.
Many local councils had various schemes to offer financial supports to those who were bright enough but could not afford can enroll in a private school.
Both my husband and his old brother benefited from this which enabled them to go to a private school on full scholarship and then onto Cambridge.

The reason many of Cambridge colleges have one or two really ugly ‘modern’ accommodation built in ‘70s and/or sets of strangely arranged rooms that used to be one big room before being split into two was because they had to cope with the huge increase in the population of students because of those schemes.
One unfortunate outcome resulted from a very good intention....... :tongue:

Reply 31

Original post by Doonesbury

My husband got a job in a local factory and earned some money for the days he’d be at Cambridge.

Reply 32

Original post by vincrows

My husband got a job in a local factory and earned some money for the days he’d be at Cambridge.

A very practical notion :smile:

Reply 33

Original post by Doonesbury

Interesting to see the growth especially in postgrads recently.

With so many students go to university in recent years, undergraduate degree is nothing special and less valued than before.
Postgrad degree (esp. Master’s) is the new undergraduate degree these days.

Reply 34

Original post by Doonesbury

After the November exams we left school. I got a job for six months before going up to Cambridge.

Reply 35

Original post by Doonesbury

Bear in mind that school fees are paid by the term, not the year. Most left at or before Christmas. November was also an A level resit month, so there would be quite a few leaving. That is the origin of the gap year.

Before the war students it was possible to come up to Oxford at the start of any term. As many candidates then wouldn't have done school exams they would have needed to read for Responsions (the Previous at Cambridge) known as Smalls and Little Go respectively. After the war matters are disrupted for 15 years or so by National Service. This could on application be deferred until after university but most men, particularly public school non-scientists, did it before university.

(edited 6 years ago)

Reply 36

Original post by Doonesbury

A very practical notion :smile:

Well, he had to. His parents couldn’t afford to give him extra money to spend when he’s at the uni.........or perhaps they could a little, but in those days when you’re 18, you’re supposed to live independently without being propped up by your parents.
What a different world we live in as parents...........

Reply 37

Original post by vincrows

Thank you for popping in and sharing your knowledge and experience.

In those days the focus of the government was more on encouraging and helping children from working class to get better education than putting pressure on universities to accept applicants from less advantaged background.
Many local councils had various schemes to offer financial supports to those who were bright enough but could not afford can enroll in a private school.
Both my husband and his old brother benefited from this which enabled them to go to a private school on full scholarship and then onto Cambridge.

Yes, absolutely. The headmaster of my old school fought nobly to keep the direct grant system; but, alas, political dogma overcame good sense.

Reply 38

Original post by vincrows

Indeed; and overseas postgrads bring the money rolling in...

Reply 39