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    Ok, so this annoys me hugely. He wants GP surgeries to open on weekends and evenings, but refuses to give them any more money...doesn't anyone else see this as wrong? It's easy to see all the news stories and think that GPs are getting paid hundreds of thousands to do sod all, but my dad is a GP and I know it's all rubbish. For one thing, GPs in general get paid far less than the headlines say. The surgery where my dad works is open from 9-6, I think this is definitely reasonable considering that he gets to work by half 8 and doesn't come home usually til half 7 because of paperwork. Under Gordon Brown's new contract, they'll have to stay open to 8 or 9...which means my dad will get to work at 8.30 am and will have to stay til 10 or later every night (because of the increase in appointments = increase in paperwork) - all for no extra pay. He gets Saturdays off usually, but will have to work probably from 9-6 on Saturdays now, again for no extra pay. If people really need to see the doctor surely they can manage to make an appointment between 9-6 in the week, or use the weekend Locum system? If your problem is so serious you can't wait then people should just go to hospital. I don't see how Gordon Brown can think that forcing doctors to work so hard they end up burning out will help the NHS. It's also a kick in the head for my dad, who trained as a GP specifically to spend more time with his family.
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    Just out of interest what do GPs get paid?
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    Just over £100 000 a year
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6157219.stm
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ycare.nhsstaff
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    They don't though. I'm not exactly going to say what my dad gets paid. But it's a considerable amount less than £100,00 a year. It depends where the surgery is situated/how many doctors work there.
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    (Original post by happinessxo)
    They don't though. I'm not exactly going to say what my dad gets paid. But it's a considerable amount less than £100,00 a year. It depends where the surgery is situated/how many doctors work there.
    Why can't you tell us what your dad gets paid? Are you saying that the BBC and Guardian reports are wrong? Where is the correct data?

    I get paid £7.08p an hour.
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    I'm saying that those are averages, so not necessarily an average representation...some GPs get paid much more, some much less. I don't know where the data is.
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    (Original post by happinessxo)
    I'm saying that those are averages, so not necessarily an average representation...some GPs get paid much more, some much less. I don't know where the data is.
    How much sympathy should anyone get who wants to keep their wages a big secret?
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    (Original post by happinessxo)
    Ok, so this annoys me hugely. He wants GP surgeries to open on weekends and evenings, but refuses to give them any more money...doesn't anyone else see this as wrong?
    No not considering the crazy contract they were given last time where the money rose dramaticially for less work, after the opt out for out of hours, i think it would be fair to assume that this is rebalancing the contract in favour of the tax payer.


    (Original post by happinessxo)
    For one thing, GPs in general get paid far less than the headlines say.
    but far more than the majority of public sector workers


    (Original post by happinessxo)
    The surgery where my dad works is open from 9-6, I think this is definitely reasonable considering that he gets to work by half 8 and doesn't come home usually til half 7 because of paperwork. Under Gordon Brown's new contract, they'll have to stay open to 8 or 9...which means my dad will get to work at 8.30 am and will have to stay til 10 or later every night (because of the increase in appointments = increase in paperwork) - all for no extra pay.
    not sure how you work that one out the place i work at is open from 5am to 1am however i don't work all those hours, althoug i sometimes come close. I also get days off work!! perhaps its about time GP's came into the 21st century of flexiable working hours and continental shifts.

    (Original post by happinessxo)
    He gets Saturdays off usually, but will have to work probably from 9-6 on Saturdays now, again for no extra pay. If people really need to see the doctor surely they can manage to make an appointment between 9-6 in the week, or use the weekend Locum system?
    Well again since the new contract was agreed they don't do locum in my area, so if you are sick out of hours its a 40+ mile roundtrip to see a dr or get to a hospital which is a nightmare.

    (Original post by happinessxo)
    If your problem is so serious you can't wait then people should just go to hospital. I don't see how Gordon Brown can think that forcing doctors to work so hard they end up burning out will help the NHS.
    What and wait 5 hours in A&E, which i might add is as the title would suggest for accidents and emergencies.
    how does burning out other public service workers help anybody but it has being going on for years in teaching.
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    To be honest GP's get paid far far too much as it is.
    I have little sympathy for the lack in pay rises.
    £100,000 is an enormous wage and they should be greatful to have that as it is.

    I think its important GP's work more flexible hours, the times before work are so busy at my local surgery that you have a 16 day wait for a normal appointment within the 8am -9am timeslot (I'm NOT exaggerating).
    If by changing the hours to weekend and evenings they cut this down it can never be a bad thing.
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    GP pay depends massively on the practice patient load, workload, doctors experience, grade, fundholder status and practice partner status. There is no average a doctor working as a GP can receive (not necessarily be paid anything between £70k and £200k. The one GP that I know of earning over £150k is a single GP working in a practice in a fairly remote area of Scotland which is scaled for 4 GPs and 1 GP registrar - essentially he is doing the work of four and a half doctors plus all the OOH service.

    The OOH issue is poorly understood. GPs had to arrange OOH cover for their patients, for some reason, most doctors refused to be on-call all day everyday (except in the very rural areas, where they have no choice) and formed GP co-operatives or used private firms to provide cover. Providing trained doctors at night is, as you might imagine, an expensive business, so when the DH offered something like £4.00ph or the option to give the responsibility to the PCTs, most GPs took the easier option.


    (Original post by ali567149)
    No not considering the crazy contract they were given last time where the money rose dramaticially for less work, after the opt out for out of hours, i think it would be fair to assume that this is rebalancing the contract in favour of the tax payer.
    No, the money 'rose' for practice partners (with which to pay their staff) because the newly introduced targets were hit (the lazy, golf-playing GPs weren't expected to do that - that's how this all began).



    Well again since the new contract was agreed they don't do locum in my area, so if you are sick out of hours its a 40+ mile roundtrip to see a dr or get to a hospital which is a nightmare.
    And this is the GPs fault?


    What and wait 5 hours in A&E, which i might add is as the title would suggest for accidents and emergencies.
    You wait for a maximum of four hours in A&E, unless there are exceptional circumstances, you are very ill or a ****.


    (Original post by ali567149)
    but far more than the majority of public sector workers
    Except MPs...
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    (Original post by mollymustard)
    £100,000 is an enormous wage and they should be greatful to have that as it is.
    I think you may be slightly naive.

    There are at least 5 years of undergraduate and at least 8 years of post-graduate education before you might start thinking about becoming a junior consultant GP.

    A junior consultant GP earns far less than £100k.

    Consider what senior professionals in other fields earn - dentist, lawyer, architect. While medicine is not by any means poorly paid, it is hardly extravagant.

    (Original post by mollymustard)
    I think its important GP's work more flexible hours, the times before work are so busy at my local surgery that you have a 16 day wait for a normal appointment within the 8am -9am timeslot (I'm NOT exaggerating).
    If by changing the hours to weekend and evenings they cut this down it can never be a bad thing.
    How long do you have to wait for a dentists appointment at 8 in the morning?
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    How much sympathy should anyone get who wants to keep their wages a big secret?
    How much does your dad earn?
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    I get paid £7.08p an hour.
    It's more than your junior doctor...
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    (Original post by Renal)
    How much does your dad earn?
    He's retired, but he was on about £22,000 when he finished.

    See, it's not that hard.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    It's more than your junior doctor...
    What do junior doctors get per hour?
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    He's retired, but he was on about £22,000 when he finished.

    See, it's not that hard.
    Doing what? Hours? Unsociable hours? How long was his degree? How long was his training? Continuing education? Litigation & risk? Insurance & union costs? etc.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    What do junior doctors get per hour?
    Officially the FY1 wage (where banding is removed, eventually that will be everywhere) is about £8ph, but since the 'real' average hours is much higher, generally less than £7.00ph or so.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    Doing what? Hours? Unsociable hours? How long was his degree? How long was his training? Continuing education? Litigation & risk? Insurance & union costs? etc.
    Erm, now that's a little unfair. I only asked what the OP's dad's wage was and I haven't been the one looking for sympathy. Obviously some people want sympathy but don't want to offer all the facts.
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    (Original post by Renal)
    Officially the FY1 wage (where banding is removed, eventually that will be everywhere) is about £8ph, but since the 'real' average hours is much higher, generally less than £7.00ph or so.
    Hmm, 'generally'...'or so'...

    You don't seem very sure.
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    Hmm, 'generally'...'or so'...

    You don't seem very sure.
    I'm not.

    The DH insists that no doctor works over 48 hours per week.
    This is clearly *******s, you cannot increase the workload, decrease the hours, not increase the staff and expect patients to survive. The BMA have only carried out small scale surveys of hours. It's believed that the average weekly hours is around 60. It's also complicated by the fact that some trusts still have banding, an additional payment for posts with long-hours or high-stress, and some have abolished it.

    Seeing as how you're a big fan of bringing everyone down to the lowest common denominator do you fancy making everyone work extended unpaid overtime?
 
 
 
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