anybody studied PPE without maths?

Watch this thread
burberry_butter
Badges: 15
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#1
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#1
I really want to study PPE but I didn't do that well in GCSE Maths. I got a 5. I don't take A Level maths either obviously. Do you think it's unlikely that I'll get to study at a good university for PPE even if I get the A*AA entry requirements? Should I consider taking a gap year?
0
reply
artful_lounger
Badges: 21
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#2
Report 4 years ago
#2
I believe there are several such courses that don't require Maths.

However the Oxford course it's basically a requirement - 95% of successful applicants have it.

Moreover, Economics at university is inherently fairly mathematical - at least up to the use of Calculus. if you struggled with GCSE Maths, why do you think this will be any better...?

You may want to consider Politics & Philosophy joint honours courses as an alternative.
1
reply
CuriouslyDaisy
Badges: 6
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#3
Report 4 years ago
#3
If you're trying for Oxford, I'd suggest taking a course or two outside of school. Maybe you could do a summer school or an online course? You will need to show them you can do Maths. There are also loads of economics courses, maybe you could do some of them? Either way, you should probably do something to demonstrate that you can do it. Honestly, it might be difficult if you don't.
I'm in the same boat - they really want History A-level and I haven't even done the GCSE. I'm going to try to make it up by doing Politics A-level and maybe a History summer course.
Maybe you could switch to just doing Politics or Philosophy? If you aren't particularly confident with Maths it's important to remember you'd be doing it for a third of your degree.
Best of luck! X
1
reply
burberry_butter
Badges: 15
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#4
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#4
(Original post by artful_lounger)
I believe there are several such courses that don't require Maths.

However the Oxford course it's basically a requirement - 95% of successful applicants have it.

Moreover, Economics at university is inherently fairly mathematical - at least up to the use of Calculus. if you struggled with GCSE Maths, why do you think this will be any better...?

You may want to consider Politics & Philosophy joint honours courses as an alternative.
(Original post by CuriouslyDaisy)
If you're trying for Oxford, I'd suggest taking a course or two outside of school. Maybe you could do a summer school or an online course? You will need to show them you can do Maths. There are also loads of economics courses, maybe you could do some of them? Either way, you should probably do something to demonstrate that you can do it. Honestly, it might be difficult if you don't.
I'm in the same boat - they really want History A-level and I haven't even done the GCSE. I'm going to try to make it up by doing Politics A-level and maybe a History summer course.
Maybe you could switch to just doing Politics or Philosophy? If you aren't particularly confident with Maths it's important to remember you'd be doing it for a third of your degree.
Best of luck! X
Thank you. I take History, Politics and Psychology. Psychology has a maths element in it I guess. I think I could have done well in GCSE Maths but I had various teachers and for about 2-3 months we had supplies. I also missed a lot of school in Year 11. I don't have my heart completely set on PPE, but I think that it would be really useful in comparison to just philosophy and politics. I'm not aiming for Oxford btw.
0
reply
artful_lounger
Badges: 21
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#5
Report 4 years ago
#5
(Original post by Salx.x)
Thank you. I take History, Politics and Psychology. Psychology has a maths element in it I guess. I think I could have done well in GCSE Maths but I had various teachers and for about 2-3 months we had supplies. I also missed a lot of school in Year 11. I don't have my heart completely set on PPE, but I think that it would be really useful in comparison to just philosophy and politics. I'm not aiming for Oxford btw.
Well outside of Oxford PPE has no particular additional prestige attached to it, so it's just as good or bad as a degree in Politics & Philosophy. Unless you intend to go into research in economics or some specific economic analyst roles (which necessarily require more than A-level ability in Maths - the former often have you develop some basic maths degree level maths) it confers no additional advantage.

If you absolutely want to study Economics then, that's another thing, but it would still be advisable to consider picking up Maths A-level in a gap year perhaps...alternately you could apply to Economic History if you enjoy History well enough, which would be no better or worse than non-Oxford PPE for applying to jobs later, but which is less likely to require Maths (I mean the LSE EH course doesn't require it to my knowledge, and they take the same first year Economics module as EC students).

The key point is "PP" is just as good as "PPE" outside the exceptions outlined above
0
reply
ChemistryGuy1998
Badges: 12
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#6
Report 4 years ago
#6
(Original post by Salx.x)
Psychology has a maths element in it I guess.
No it doesn't lol
0
reply
3121
Badges: 21
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#7
Report 4 years ago
#7
(Original post by ChemistryGuy1998)
No it doesn't lol
I’m sure there’s quite a lot of statistics and data handling?
0
reply
ChemistryGuy1998
Badges: 12
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#8
Report 4 years ago
#8
(Original post by Zxyn)
I’m sure there’s quite a lot of statistics and data handling?
I guess so but you can't really call it a maths element honestly haha, but to the OP, you can do PPE without maths, a lot of unis will allow you to drop the economics element after first year if you struggle.
0
reply
3121
Badges: 21
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#9
Report 4 years ago
#9
(Original post by ChemistryGuy1998)
I guess so but you can't really call it a maths element honestly haha, but to the OP, you can do PPE without maths, a lot of unis will allow you to drop the economics element after first year if you struggle.
Yeah because I know people doing at uni and they didn’t do a level maths so they had to do a module in statistics but its just like standard deviation - nothing too advance.

Yeah unis will just say you need maths to specialise in Economics but ofc oxford are more picky with entry, otherwise OP can specialise in just philosophy and politics. I bet most unis will even let them do Economics in 2nd/3rd year if they did really well in first year
0
reply
burberry_butter
Badges: 15
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#10
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#10
(Original post by artful_lounger)
Well outside of Oxford PPE has no particular additional prestige attached to it, so it's just as good or bad as a degree in Politics & Philosophy.
Really? My teacher said that it's "highly sought after".
0
reply
burberry_butter
Badges: 15
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#11
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#11
(Original post by ChemistryGuy1998)
I guess so but you can't really call it a maths element honestly haha, but to the OP, you can do PPE without maths, a lot of unis will allow you to drop the economics element after first year if you struggle.
I beg your pardon, but I would definitely say that there is a maths element in A Level Psychology. We have to learn various formulae. In fact there's new maths in every new module/unit we do. As well as this we're asked to handle data in each one of our practical investigations for all 6 modules. There is also a requirement of having a grade B in GCSE maths which is also the case if you were to study A Level Economics, which undeniably has a maths element.
0
reply
ChemistryGuy1998
Badges: 12
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#12
Report 4 years ago
#12
(Original post by Salx.x)
I beg your pardon, but I would definitely say that there is a maths element in A Level Psychology. We have to learn various formulae. In fact there's new maths in every new module/unit we do. As well as this we're asked to handle data in each one of our practical investigations for all 6 modules.
Yeah okay my bad but still its not concrete evidence of aptitude for maths. As I said you can do PPE but I reckon you'd prefer to specialise in the Politics + Philosophy strand of PPE.
0
reply
artful_lounger
Badges: 21
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#13
Report 4 years ago
#13
(Original post by Salx.x)
Really? My teacher said that it's "highly sought after".
From Oxford, certainly. That particular course has a considerable history in producing major political and business figures (and a few notable academics) in its relatively short history. Elsewhere it's just a combined honours degree - good if you want to study those three subjects which do all link together, but there's nothing special about it otherwise, and you end up covering considerably less material than a comparable two subject combined honours or the Oxford course, which is notorious for packing in a huge amount of content. There's a reason LSE's version is 4 years long...

In any case, outside of Oxford it's just a degree like any other - while factors like the relative "prestige" of the course provider will continue to be relevant (for example Warwick/LSE will be notable on a CV revardless) it doesn't lend additional weight besides that. Case in point, as I recall York's version was the first outside Oxford, but they aren't renowned for PPE by any means - they're just considered a generally good university and it's one of their many courses which are all good.

Doing "just" Politics & Philosophy at one of their universities would be just as beneficial as doing PPE, outside of maybe dazzling extended family and long removed friends...
0
reply
adamantacademic
Badges: 21
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#14
Report 4 years ago
#14
(Original post by Salx.x)
anybody studied PPE without maths?
David Cameron
0
reply
burberry_butter
Badges: 15
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#15
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#15
(Original post by artful_lounger)
From Oxford, certainly. That particular course has a considerable history in producing major political and business figures (and a few notable academics) in its relatively short history. Elsewhere it's just a combined honours degree - good if you want to study those three subjects which do all link together, but there's nothing special about it otherwise, and you end up covering considerably less material than a comparable two subject combined honours or the Oxford course, which is notorious for packing in a huge amount of content. There's a reason LSE's version is 4 years long...

In any case, outside of Oxford it's just a degree like any other - while factors like the relative "prestige" of the course provider will continue to be relevant (for example Warwick/LSE will be notable on a CV revardless) it doesn't lend additional weight besides that. Case in point, as I recall York's version was the first outside Oxford, but they aren't renowned for PPE by any means - they're just considered a generally good university and it's one of their many courses which are all good.

Doing "just" Politics & Philosophy at one of their universities would be just as beneficial as doing PPE, outside of maybe dazzling extended family and long removed friends...
You say this as if any degree outside of Oxford doesn't really matter. I know PPE is Oxford's flagship course but I don't want to study it solely for the prestige that comes with studying at Oxford.
I want to do PPE because I like my humanties subjects and because I want a pathway to Law. The universities you mentioned are definitely prestigious so if I'm genuinely interested in PPE then it is worth applying to other universities.

I don't want to study PPE to 'dazzle' extended family and "long removed friends". I want to study PPE because I think it is a degree which is incredibly flexible and will help me get a job in many fields.
I don't think studying Politics and Philosophy will provide such opportunity.
0
reply
artful_lounger
Badges: 21
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#16
Report 4 years ago
#16
(Original post by Salx.x)
You say this as if any degree outside of Oxford doesn't really matter. I know PPE is Oxford's flagship course but I don't want to study it solely for the prestige that comes with studying at Oxford.
I want to do PPE because I like my humanties subjects and because I want a pathway to Law. The universities you mentioned are definitely prestigious so if I'm genuinely interested in PPE then it is worth applying to other universities.

I don't want to study PPE to 'dazzle' extended family and "long removed friends". I want to study PPE because I think it is a degree which is incredibly flexible and will help me get a job in many fields.
I don't think studying Politics and Philosophy will provide such opportunity.
You misunderstand the point. The commentary is not "degrees outside Oxford are pointless". The commentary is "this specific degree subject/combination, outside it's originator, is no better or worse than any other degree".

Also regardless of how much or little maths is ostensibly involved in Psychology, it's irrelevant because the maths in Economics is not "just" statistics. You will need calculus, and most serious economics courses will probably introduce at least basic concepts of matrices and simple first order differential equations. This is already far beyond the level of Maths in Psychology in and undergraduate degree, and certainly in A-level.

A course in Politics & Philosophy will open the same number of doors as a degree in PPE, with the two exceptions indicated in my earlier post. Now, if you want to study all three subjects then that's fine, but you've indicated you're not even that invested in PPE specifically anyway. If you're serious about PPE, then I suggest considering, if unsuccessful in application or otherwise, taking a gap year to take A-level Maths.

Before you get too hung up on defending to your last breath your right to study PPE, take a look at the entry requirements of the course in various places. The majority of the more appealing courses (certainly, relative to your predicted grades) require A-level Maths, OR GCSE Maths at Grade A/7. You have neither. Thus, the recommendation to consider Politics & Philosophy...which covers similar content, is just as reputable, and does not generally require mathematics.
0
reply
burberry_butter
Badges: 15
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#17
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#17
(Original post by artful_lounger)
You misunderstand the point. The commentary is not "degrees outside Oxford are pointless". The commentary is "this specific degree subject/combination, outside it's originator, is no better or worse than any other degree".

Also regardless of how much or little maths is ostensibly involved in Psychology, it's irrelevant because the maths in Economics is not "just" statistics. You will need calculus, and most serious economics courses will probably introduce at least basic concepts of matrices and simple first order differential equations. This is already far beyond the level of Maths in Psychology in and undergraduate degree, and certainly in A-level.

A course in Politics & Philosophy will open the same number of doors as a degree in PPE, with the two exceptions indicated in my earlier post. Now, if you want to study all three subjects then that's fine, but you've indicated you're not even that invested in PPE specifically anyway. If you're serious about PPE, then I suggest considering, if unsuccessful in application or otherwise, taking a gap year to take A-level Maths.

Before you get too hung up on defending to your last breath your right to study PPE, take a look at the entry requirements of the course in various places. The majority of the more appealing courses (certainly, relative to your predicted grades) require A-level Maths, OR GCSE Maths at Grade A/7. You have neither. Thus, the recommendation to consider Politics & Philosophy...which covers similar content, is just as reputable, and does not generally require mathematics.
Thank you.
What I would like clarified is ‘is PPE alone not a highly sought after degree?’ Even from a non-oxford university? Just as medicine, and law are?
0
reply
artful_lounger
Badges: 21
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#18
Report 4 years ago
#18
(Original post by Salx.x)
Thank you.
What I would like clarified is ‘is PPE alone not a highly sought after degree?’ Even from a non-oxford university? Just as medicine, and law are?
It's not "sought after" any more than any other "generalist" degree - i.e. all non-STEM subjects, and excluding Law to some extent. Even then, for STEM subjects only the "numerate" degrees have any additional interest for employers, and only for certain roles/grad schemes. While some Economics and e.g. Finance courses fall into the "numerate" descriptor, these are usually single honours courses from e.g. LSE, Cambridge etc. PPE courses outside Oxford and maybe Warwick/LSE are probably not going to qualify for such roles. Thus, such courses are as good as any other - but no better.

Additionally Medicine isn't "sought after" - once you are accepted onto the degree you more or less end up on a conveyor belt to a job, provided you don't fail any elements or decide to go in a different direction. Law is also less "sought after" than you may think - there are far more law graduates every year than LPC/BPTC/training contract positions. Many Law graduates have to work in paralegal positions or even in non-legal roles even if they want to continue in the profession for some time after graduating.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest

Y13s: How will you be receiving your A-level results?

In person (44)
72.13%
In the post (2)
3.28%
Text (7)
11.48%
Something else (tell us in the thread) (8)
13.11%

Watched Threads

View All